ryankc
Kahuna
Posts: 128
Likes: 201
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Post by ryankc on Jun 15, 2022 18:53:46 GMT -5
“playing God”
Don't think your God!
Hey robba reba!
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ryankc
Kahuna
Posts: 128
Likes: 201
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Post by ryankc on Jun 15, 2022 19:05:12 GMT -5
For what it's worth two things can be true at the same time. You can be appreciative of Howie, Mark and the rest of their team for their tireless work they've done to keep the Beach Boys and their music alive. Considering this band is now 60 years old and there's still considerable demand for more product is a remarkable thing. But you can also (constructively speaking) offer criticism over various nuances of their projects, such as the way the material is being mixed/mastered. Beach Boys fans are a highly sensitive lot who are constantly overprotective of the franchise (that's not meant to slam anyone; it's just the way it is). It's finding that delicate balance of appreciating the material we're getting without taking things too personally over any grievances we may have with the product. For all the hoopla and/or flack that the new version of "Marcella" is receiving, I personally welcome this new version of the song as well as any other surprises this forthcoming compilation may have. This pretty much sums up my take; which I posted earlier in another thread. Cool is a very subjective term. I do agree with some of what Howie said about the band. I would wager all of us want their post-1966 work to be taken serious. I also worry that they will be remembered as pastiche. Personally, I am hesitant to tell people that I am a huge Beach Boys fan because I feel like they are seen as fun in the sun by the general public here in the US. There has been a push the last few decades to highlight Brian, Pet Sounds, and Smile, but I feel like they have pushed that a lot and it's kind of tiring because that still only takes a listener to 1967. I get what Howie is saying by trying to wrong a right and Feel Flows is definitely a push in that direction. Fans have the right to not like things and criticize, but it's a good to always step back and not get so mad about things that don't turn out the way you would personally want them to. If we only had a little pad in Hawaii... |
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 15, 2022 21:06:46 GMT -5
I feel like laughing at some of the posts here regarding the Beach Boys lack of cool. I don't know which planet ya'll are from, but the Beach Boys are in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. If that doesn't scream acceptance in all the right places, what does? I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and always heard that Pet Sounds was universally regarded as one of the greatest albums of all time (and a commercial flop, but...). Always heard it said that "Brian Wilson is a genius". If you want to talk about bands with a lack of critical respect, I could tell you some stories.
It does seem that in recent years, The Monkees have gained some measure of critical respect, although they're still not in the HOF. I could make a case for Paul Revere and the Raiders. They were often thought to be another "created for tv band" like the Monkees, mainly because their breakthrough was as regulars on Dick Clark's Where the Action Is show, 1965-67. That ignores the fact that they had been a regular working band (mostly in the Northwest) for years before they got on tv. They had their first national hit, "Like Long Hair", in 1961. Mostly, though, they were known for their wild stage shows and their hard driving, r&b influenced rock and roll; but because of their comedic lip-synching appearances on tv, it was thought they couldn't really play, that they were just a bunch of bubblegum goofballs. People overlook the string of chart successes from 1965 to 1972. People ignore albums like Midnight Ride, Something Happening, Alias Pink Puzz, and Collage. People see the comedy and assume the group wasn't serious about their music.
I think the Beach Boys are one of the most respected groups in the history of rock and roll. Maybe not in the same way as Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd, but the Beach Boys weren't making that kind of music. And I'm glad they didn't.
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Post by ian on Jun 15, 2022 21:12:34 GMT -5
No one is saying that-they are discussing that in the past the post 67 work that was largely dismissed is now being appreciated and the appreciation for post Smile material has led to critical reevaluations of Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al and Bruce and more appreciation for their post 67 efforts, as well as appreciation for Brian's less well-known post 67 material. I'd argue that when they got in the Hall in 1988 it was largely for the "Brian Years" and no one was really talking about Wild Honey, Friends, Sunflower and Holland, let alone Love You or LA Light-but now more people have knowledge/respect for those albums
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Post by John Manning on Jun 16, 2022 1:39:48 GMT -5
Fair points but ultimately for a compilation does this truly even matter? If anything the remixes/new mixes provide new insight into the music itself and (if done well) can breathe new life into music you've listened to endlessly for years/decades. I certainly don't have a problem with this unless the material sounds objectively bad, which I don't believe anything here comes close to. If you really want to hear good music ruined by new remixing/remastering I dare you to listen to the 50th anniversary remix of 𝐶ℎ𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑔𝑜 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑛𝑠𝑖𝑡 𝐴𝑢𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦 butchered unmercifully by Tim Jessup. That thing sounded so atrocious the band threw Rhino Records under the bus by suggesting they pulled the wrong mix and offered a replacement disc (which sounded just as awful). I'm guessing that when this forthcoming "Sail On Sailor" (or whatever they end up calling it) box set comes out that the remix of "Marcella" will probably sound more authentic to the original recording. Yes, but you would also think that that Marcella mix that sounds more authentic to the original would be on a greatest hits package, and the more alternate mix sounding one would be on the Sail On Sailor box set. That’s puzzling me too! I love having the alt mixes, but a comp seems an odd place to introduce such a radical reimagining to the fans. Am hoping this’ll be on the Sail On Sailor box, and they can stick a half-dozen other alt mixes of the same track on there, for my money, long as the audio quality shows off the crystal clear sound to the best effect. I have probably five or six copies of the album, on vinyl and CD. What I’m looking forward to most, then, is new-to-my-ears backing tracks, vocal tracks, outtakes and sessions – and remixes, alt mixes and thorough remasters. (Will it come with a mono Pet Sounds? I doubt it…!) |
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Post by radiantradish on Jun 16, 2022 2:26:48 GMT -5
I haven’t followed this whole debate. But I’ve just checked out the shut down and good vibrations mixes on the new comp. What’s the issue? They sound pretty damn good to me. Marcella remix is the issue. Or non-issue depending. Ok, yeah Marcella doesn’t sound so good. Strange mix really, Carl’s vocal is oddly placed. Some of it is quite interesting as you hear parts previously buried. |
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Post by donnylang on Jun 16, 2022 2:28:37 GMT -5
No idea what’s going on this this or the other thread, but read through it.
One thing I wanted to comment on is the “cool” angle- I think at this point in time, a record like Beach Boys Today is way cooler than say, Holland. The ‘65-‘68 era I think represents the group at their most legit hip. I believe by the time we get to ‘70-‘72, their hipness is more of a promotional concept created by Jack Rieley.
So what I’m saying is I believe “Pom Pom Playgirl” actually has more cool appeal to young people today than “Student Demonstration Time”.
RE: mixes, I think mono is way more hip. Like if you hang out in record shops, people are looking for the mono stuff. I think it’s hard to argue against the original mono mixes being definitive. Brian Wilson was thinking in terms of AM radio. That’s how those records were designed. My personal wish for the reissues would be more OG mixes or vintage working mixes. I liked that they released Lei’d In Hawaii that way, though that would have been fantastic to put out as a stand alone LP for record store day with “what could have been” cover art.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 16, 2022 5:04:30 GMT -5
No idea what’s going on this this or the other thread, but read through it. One thing I wanted to comment on is the “cool” angle- I think at this point in time, a record like Beach Boys Today is way cooler than say, Holland. The ‘65-‘68 era I think represents the group at their most legit hip. I believe by the time we get to ‘70-‘72, their hipness is more of a promotional concept created by Jack Rieley. So what I’m saying is I believe “Pom Pom Playgirl” actually has more cool appeal to young people today than “Student Demonstration Time”. RE: mixes, I think mono is way more hip. Like if you hang out in record shops, people are looking for the mono stuff. I think it’s hard to argue against the original mono mixes being definitive. Brian Wilson was thinking in terms of AM radio. That’s how those records were designed. My personal wish for the reissues would be more OG mixes or vintage working mixes. I liked that they released Lei’d In Hawaii that way, though that would have been fantastic to put out as a stand alone LP for record store day with “what could have been” cover art. That concept of mono as well as what appeals to young people today, might be grounded in what is going on. And SDT is definitely war-time music, and had-its-place, in-that-time. I think the comp from ‘74, was so successful because people were jubilant the war was over, and they could relax with some BB tunes. They could finally put away the war music. The whole “hip” concept never worked for me. It was Jack’s hype. They were always cool, because of their work, regardless of who was promoting them and/or what they wore, which is completely superficial and of no consequence where their talent/s were ever concerned. Each had his own personal style, and I highly doubt Mrs. Wilson (Audree) was telling Dennis what to wear everyday, after school. And, I agree about Lei’d in Hawaii, which should have been released, in some fashion, à la Party, even as a couple of EPs, if only to maintain momentum, and quiet down the SMiLE rumor mill, ease the some of stress, during that period. Brian definitely wrote for AM radio, the only game in town, until “underground” FM, as rock music was breaking through a different pathway. And, completely agree on the cover art. I am grateful, for these unreleased tracks and live work. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Jun 16, 2022 9:45:51 GMT -5
I'm grateful for whatever we get and the efforts of those who make it so, even if this or that isn't to my taste or whatever.
The Boys themselves knew they were not cool in the accepted way, they seem to see cool as not being cool in the expected way.
IMO, nothing wrong with taking chances. If you swing big, you might hit a homerun, or strike out. You might be called to explain/defend your choices. Since all are fans, maybe we could assume we all have the best of intentions and cut esch other some slack.
Oh yeah, also in my experience, often when the choices you object to are explained, you can understand the perspective and the reason for the choice.
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Post by E on Jun 16, 2022 12:00:59 GMT -5
Maybe they were cool, 62-66, but I always think of the BBs as alternative and experimental, ploughing their own furrow, especially from the mid-60s. And that's what I like about them.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 16, 2022 12:01:34 GMT -5
I'm grateful for whatever we get and the efforts of those who make it so, even if this or that isn't to my taste or whatever. The Boys themselves knew they were not cool in the accepted way, they seem to see cool as not being cool in the expected way. IMO, nothing wrong with taking chances. If you swing big, you might hit a homerun, or strike out. You might be called to explain/defend your choices. Since all are fans, maybe we could assume we all have the best of intentions and cut esch other some slack. Oh yeah, also in my experience, often when the choices you object to are explained, you can understand the perspective and the reason for the choice. No one standing next to Dennis is cool. I mean they’re cool by virtue of standing next to Dennis but the camera sees them as so much less cool. That was their first problem. |
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Post by EST583JRX on Jun 16, 2022 12:03:45 GMT -5
Re: "cool" and "FM," etc. [...] I feel like laughing at some of the posts here regarding the Beach Boys lack of cool. [...] These posts hit the nail on the head. Glad I made this thread. |
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 16, 2022 12:24:04 GMT -5
Re: "cool" and "FM," etc. [...] I feel like laughing at some of the posts here regarding the Beach Boys lack of cool. [...] These posts hit the nail on the head. Glad I made this thread. If only there were iPhones in the 60s. You would have seen girls firing paper airplanes on the stage with phone numbers - generally for  |
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Post by radiantradish on Jun 16, 2022 12:49:08 GMT -5
Brian is cool because he’s never given two s***s about being cool, it’s all about the music.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 16, 2022 13:12:38 GMT -5
Brian is cool because he’s never given two s***s about being cool, it’s all about the music. Exactly. Trying hard to be cool is itself uncool. |
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Post by John Manning on Jun 16, 2022 14:29:57 GMT -5
These posts hit the nail on the head. Glad I made this thread. If only there were iPhones in the 60s. You would have seen girls firing paper airplanes on the stage with phone numbers - generally for Smart phones have been around longer than we think… images.app.goo.gl/C6on4ZyVks8pVrVd7 |
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Post by jds on Jun 16, 2022 16:33:58 GMT -5
I think the Beach Boys' positive and enthusiastic vision of life transcends mere "cool." They're inspiring in a way that John Lennon or Frank Sinatra could never hope to be.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 16, 2022 20:23:15 GMT -5
I know I've never been cool; I was always a nerd. But I would watch the Beach Boys on tv and think things like "just the way Carl holds his guitar while performing is cool"; "Dennis beating on those drums as if his life depended on it is cool"; or "those harmonies are cool". Seriously. Vocally, the Beach Boys at their best are hard to beat.
I'm reminded too, of a song I heard on the radio after a Beach Boys concert in the 80's: "It's Hip to Be Square".
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 16, 2022 21:00:24 GMT -5
I know I've never been cool; I was always a nerd. But I would watch the Beach Boys on tv and think things like "just the way Carl holds his guitar while performing is cool"; "Dennis beating on those drums as if his life depended on it is cool"; or "those harmonies are cool". Seriously. Vocally, the Beach Boys at their best are hard to beat. I'm reminded too, of a song I heard on the radio after a Beach Boys concert in the 80's: "It's Hip to Be Square". If you are on EH, you are the coolest of the cool! 😎 |
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