|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Jan 24, 2022 5:41:36 GMT -5
What can you say, the guys been in show business his whole life.
A fascinating personality.
I stumbled across this some time back, some may be interested to see a very young Van Dyke Parks from 1956!
Amazing how some of this stuff turns up, and how you find it, and then all of a sudden there's a name you recognize.
Funny to see how soon as he enters the picture even as a young boy, there's something very distinguishable about Van Dyke.
Anyway, here's an open thread to add anything you find interesting, intriguing about Van Dyke or just want to talk about the guy.
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jan 24, 2022 10:44:37 GMT -5
He duetted with Albert Einstein on the latter's porch when he was a child. VDP sang, Albert played violin.
And of course, everyone knows he was in The Swan with Grace Kelly (1956). Also, barroom piano player in the Robin Williams Popeye movie (1980).
Scored a charming little animated children's film, The Brave Little Toaster (1987).
|
|
alankard
Dude/Dudette
Module-Assembly Smile Hobbyist (MASH)
Posts: 52
Likes: 53 
|
Post by alankard on Dec 12, 2023 12:06:12 GMT -5
First came across the song "Worthless" 15 years ago while watching The Brave Little Toaster (in VHS format!) with my young daughters. At the time it prompted a thought, "Hmmm, someone's a fan of Heroes and Villains." So it was a pleasant surprise to learn that VDP wrote the song, made more fun upon subsequent listens as the Beach Boys refs emerged. Great song, love the long couplets as with H&V.
|
|
tfa
Grommet
Posts: 6
Likes: 14
|
Post by tfa on Dec 12, 2023 13:18:10 GMT -5
I was a Beach Boys fan long before I became a Twin Peaks fan and was delighted to see a familiar face represent Leo Johnson in a brief cameo.
I tell myself that either David Lynch or Mark Frost must have been familiar enough with VDP and his work to include "perspicacity", a particularly VDP-ish word, in his monologue.
|
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 12, 2023 13:49:34 GMT -5
Good call, Rick.  In 1996 Van Dyke was interviewed on Dutch TV by Han Reiziger, who was something of an institution in this country: |
|
|
|
Post by bessieboporbach on Dec 12, 2023 15:29:16 GMT -5
During his session musician days he turned up in some unexpected places, such as playing the beautiful pseudo-baroque keyboards on the Byrds' "5D" in 1966.
I have a fair amount of his music, and I must confess that -- outside of Smile -- I don't find his artistry very engaging. But he is a fascinating figure, a mix of Zelig, Groucho Marx, and John Kennedy Toole.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Dec 12, 2023 23:43:05 GMT -5
“I wasn’t close enough to the other guys. I was in a position of defending my lyrics, that went from “ding woody pearl hang-ten” – I mean, I didn’t know that language – to, ah, like, “columnated ruins domino”. Mike Love said to me one day, “Explain this: Over and over the crow cries, uncover the cornfield?” And it was an American Gothic trip that Brian and I were working on. I said, “I don’t know what these lyrics are all about, they’re not important, throw ’em away! And they did!"
“I was victimized by Brian Wilson's buffoonery. It just got too much for me. It was an expensive decision for me not to continue my association with the most powerful artist in the music business at the time, but I made the only decision I could. I walked away from that funhouse."
"I don't hold with the idea that there was a problem with the lyrics, as Mike Love did at the time, about 'over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield'. I think I did a damn good job creating a highly decorative lyrical accompaniment to some really beautiful melodic patterns. I don't think the crows created a problem at all. I think the music created the problem for Mike, and it was perfectly understandable that he was terribly jealous of me, as it became evident that he wanted my job. And I did not want a job that somebody else wanted. And with that, and with the famous – we can say infamous – stories about Brian Wilson's psychological collapse, and his buffoonery. I walked away from the job. I got out of there. And it was left undone." Bootleg recordings would, in time, leak out to a drooling world - where they would soundtrack countless dog day smoke-ups, night trips, nervous breakdowns. "I do get an idea that a lot of people sensed how troubled Brian Wilson was when they heard it”.
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Dec 13, 2023 1:14:36 GMT -5
“I wasn’t close enough to the other guys. I was in a position of defending my lyrics, that went from “ding woody pearl hang-ten” – I mean, I didn’t know that language – to, ah, like, “columnated ruins domino”. Mike Love said to me one day, “Explain this: Over and over the crow cries, uncover the cornfield?” And it was an American Gothic trip that Brian and I were working on. I said, “I don’t know what these lyrics are all about, they’re not important, throw ’em away!”“I was victimized by Brian Wilson's buffoonery. It just got too much for me. It was an expensive decision for me not to continue my association with the most powerful artist in the music business at the time, but I made the only decision I could. I walked away from that funhouse." "I don't hold with the idea that there was a problem with the lyrics, as Mike Love did at the time, about 'over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield'. I think I did a damn good job creating a highly decorative lyrical accompaniment to some really beautiful melodic patterns. I don't think the crows created a problem at all. I think the music created the problem for Mike, and it was perfectly understandable that he was terribly jealous of me, as it became evident that he wanted my job. And I did not want a job that somebody else wanted. And with that, and with the famous – we can say infamous – stories about Brian Wilson's psychological collapse, and his buffoonery. I walked away from the job. I got out of there. And it was left undone." Bootleg recordings would, in time, leak out to a drooling world - where they would soundtrack countless dog day smoke-ups, night trips, nervous breakdowns. "I do get an idea that a lot of people sensed how troubled Brian Wilson was when they heard it”. You left out the zinger. "And they did!" |
|
|
|
Post by E on Dec 13, 2023 4:45:14 GMT -5
"“I wasn’t close enough to the other guys. I was in a position of defending my lyrics, that went from “ding woody pearl hang-ten”
So that's what Pet Sounds and Today were about...?
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Dec 13, 2023 5:38:12 GMT -5
I've always heard that as "ding woody curl hang ten".
|
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 13, 2023 6:36:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 13, 2023 7:57:11 GMT -5
I know I read about VDP's Song Cycle at the time (in those days I read all the weekly music papers from cover to cover) but I didn't hear it until the arrival of the world wide web. (Did anyone at EH hear the album at the time of its release?) Although in theory I should like it (I like Charles Ives, after all), I must confess the few listens I've given it have all left me with a headache.  There was a single, "Donovan's Colours", but not unsurprisingly I never heard that either: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Cycle_(album) |
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 13, 2023 8:40:36 GMT -5
And to complete the hat-trick:
My all-time favourite sentence devoted to VDP (particularly the first three words) comes in an interview by Tom Nolan (on page 212 of my copy of Priore's Look! Listen! Vibrate! Smile!), whom VDP collects from his home in a car given him by Brian and drives to Van Dyke's own house:
"Van Dyke parks: walks into the back yard, introduces his rabbit, picks him up out of the wire cage, holds him softly in the moonlight, arranging the padded feet."
|
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Dec 13, 2023 9:57:54 GMT -5
“I wasn’t close enough to the other guys. I was in a position of defending my lyrics, that went from “ding woody pearl hang-ten” – I mean, I didn’t know that language – to, ah, like, “columnated ruins domino”. Mike Love said to me one day, “Explain this: Over and over the crow cries, uncover the cornfield?” And it was an American Gothic trip that Brian and I were working on. I said, “I don’t know what these lyrics are all about, they’re not important, throw ’em away!”“I was victimized by Brian Wilson's buffoonery. It just got too much for me. It was an expensive decision for me not to continue my association with the most powerful artist in the music business at the time, but I made the only decision I could. I walked away from that funhouse." "I don't hold with the idea that there was a problem with the lyrics, as Mike Love did at the time, about 'over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield'. I think I did a damn good job creating a highly decorative lyrical accompaniment to some really beautiful melodic patterns. I don't think the crows created a problem at all. I think the music created the problem for Mike, and it was perfectly understandable that he was terribly jealous of me, as it became evident that he wanted my job. And I did not want a job that somebody else wanted. And with that, and with the famous – we can say infamous – stories about Brian Wilson's psychological collapse, and his buffoonery. I walked away from the job. I got out of there. And it was left undone." Bootleg recordings would, in time, leak out to a drooling world - where they would soundtrack countless dog day smoke-ups, night trips, nervous breakdowns. "I do get an idea that a lot of people sensed how troubled Brian Wilson was when they heard it”. You left out the zinger. "And they did!" Duly noted and edited. How could I miss the "zinger"? And the thing is, they never did! |
|
|
|
Post by John Manning on Dec 13, 2023 10:23:16 GMT -5
I know I read about VDP's Song Cycle at the time (in those days I read all the weekly music papers from cover to cover) but I didn't hear it until the arrival of the world wide web. (Did anyone at EH hear the album at the time of its release?) Although in theory I should like it (I like Charles Ives, after all), I must confess the few listens I've given it have all left me with a headache. There was a single, "Donovan's Colours", but not unsurprisingly I never heard that either: I first heard it after picking up a secondhand (I think) CD copy sometime (probably) in or just before 1994 (am I being vague? I might be but then again…) and absolutely loved it. To me it seemed very complex, far more so than any material I'd heard from Smile at the time (which wasn't then much, I suppose). Very dense, textured and layered, perhaps overly ostentatious, orchestral and flamboyant but so, so bloody clever in the way most of the tracks seemed (and some actually did) segue into each other. I'd hoped it might be Smile-like, that it might offer some clues to Smile's character, but it probably suggested to me then (as it still does today) that VDP was, musically, far more knowledgeable and formally skilled than BW though perhaps that was in an academic sense, compared to BW's intuitive, instinctive style and natural ability.
I know what you mean about a headache though, it's very full-on and not the kind of thing you can have on as background music. There's an element of cacophony to it, it grabs your shirt collar and deamnds you pay attention. Not that relaxing, until you've fully absorbed it over umpteen listens.
I wish VDP hadn't blocked me on Twitter, but there y'go. |
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 13, 2023 11:17:55 GMT -5
I know I read about VDP's Song Cycle at the time (in those days I read all the weekly music papers from cover to cover) but I didn't hear it until the arrival of the world wide web. (Did anyone at EH hear the album at the time of its release?) Although in theory I should like it (I like Charles Ives, after all), I must confess the few listens I've given it have all left me with a headache. There was a single, "Donovan's Colours", but not unsurprisingly I never heard that either: I first heard it after picking up a secondhand (I think) CD copy sometime (probably) in or just before 1994 (am I being vague? I might be but then again…) and absolutely loved it. To me it seemed very complex, far more so than any material I'd heard from Smile at the time (which wasn't then much, I suppose). Very dense, textured and layered, perhaps overly ostentatious, orchestral and flamboyant but so, so bloody clever in the way most of the tracks seemed (and some actually did) segue into each other. I'd hoped it might be Smile-like, that it might offer some clues to Smile's character, but it probably suggested to me then (as it still does today) that VDP was, musically, far more knowledgeable and formally skilled than BW though perhaps that was in an academic sense, compared to BW's intuitive, instinctive style and natural ability.
I know what you mean about a headache though, it's very full-on and not the kind of thing you can have on as background music. There's an element of cacophony to it, it grabs your shirt collar and deamnds you pay attention. Not that relaxing, until you've fully absorbed it over umpteen listens.
I wish VDP hadn't blocked me on Twitter, but there y'go. So I should persevere. As I say, it should really be up my street. (That single alone is brimming over with ideas.) I'll do my best. Sorry to hear about the blockage.  |
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 14, 2023 5:16:41 GMT -5
I first heard it after picking up a secondhand (I think) CD copy sometime (probably) in or just before 1994 (am I being vague? I might be but then again…) and absolutely loved it. To me it seemed very complex, far more so than any material I'd heard from Smile at the time (which wasn't then much, I suppose). Very dense, textured and layered, perhaps overly ostentatious, orchestral and flamboyant but so, so bloody clever in the way most of the tracks seemed (and some actually did) segue into each other. I'd hoped it might be Smile-like, that it might offer some clues to Smile's character, but it probably suggested to me then (as it still does today) that VDP was, musically, far more knowledgeable and formally skilled than BW though perhaps that was in an academic sense, compared to BW's intuitive, instinctive style and natural ability.
I know what you mean about a headache though, it's very full-on and not the kind of thing you can have on as background music. There's an element of cacophony to it, it grabs your shirt collar and deamnds you pay attention. Not that relaxing, until you've fully absorbed it over umpteen listens.
I wish VDP hadn't blocked me on Twitter, but there y'go. So I should persevere. As I say, it should really be up my street. (That single alone is brimming over with ideas.) I'll do my best. Sorry to hear about the blockage. Gave it a first new listen on YouTube last night (darn those ads). It's certainly an extraordinary sonic cornucopia and every bit as overwhelming as I remember it. I'd say the word psychedelic was invented for this album! I have Spotify on my phone so that will give me my next shot at it (through speakers). Until now, my favourite VDP experience has been his triumphant late collaboration with Brian, the magnificent Orange Crate Art. Now that I can listen to any time. |
|
|
|
Post by John Manning on Dec 14, 2023 7:07:38 GMT -5
Agree on OCA, it's wonderful, though I prefer VDP's own vocals on some of the OCA songs I've heard him sing solo (there's a few on YouTube). He wrote 'em, and his voice suits them to a tee. Thinking Wings of Dove, the title track, Hold Back Time… though you can't beat Brian's delivery of San Francisco. |
|
|
|
Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Dec 14, 2023 10:01:53 GMT -5
Why do some people really dislike Orange Crate Art? I think it’s mostly fantastic.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Dec 14, 2023 10:04:27 GMT -5
Why do some people really dislike Orange Crate Art? I think it’s mostly fantastic. It would be fantastic if Brian didn't sing the vocals. |
|
bookofb
Grommet
Posts: 34
Likes: 33
|
Post by bookofb on Dec 14, 2023 12:20:25 GMT -5
Why do some people really dislike Orange Crate Art? I think it’s mostly fantastic. It would be fantastic if Brian didn't sing the vocals. I agree on the vocals. Not Brian's fault necessarily, it's just that it doesn't make a lot of sense for Brian to be singing those kinds of lyrics, at that point. And I think Brian knew it, and probably Van Dyke Parks knew it too (isn't there a quote from Brian during the recording and he says something like "why am I singing this?" and Van Dyke says, something to the effect of "because I don't like the sound of my own voice")
Orange Crate Art is sort of a very interesting side-issue; it's complicated - when it was recorded, Van Dyke's motivation, where Brian was at the time (just coming out the Landy-situation), etc.
At the time, I dont think anybody expected Brian to make his musical comeback; I think to a lot of people he was done, and it was tragedy - Smile was gone forever and it was sad. I think Van Dyke was motivated by a number of factors: empathy for Brian, maybe a little guilt (which he really shouldn't have felt), a desire to complete *something* with Brian (given that Smile was gone and never to return) and also, there was a commercial benefit for Van Dyke (and Warner Bros.) - the album could get more attention with Brian on it than if it was Van Dyke doing the vocals. So it was win-win for Warner Bros. and Van Dyke on that respect, where doing a good deed for someone is also the right thing to do commercially. Van Dyke gives himself credit for bringing Brian back into the music business with that album.
Unfortunately, the sad thing, at the time, was the thing about "you can't go home again" - Brian singing Van Dyke's words in the Smile-era made sense; Brian knew why he was singing them and wanted to sing those words. But in the 1990s, Van Dyke's lyrical style is still there and Brian is no longer in that place (emotionally, vocally) where he could sing those words and pull it off.
The songs are good though, and for me, that's why the album is good. They sound better when Parks sings them himself, as on his live album Moonlighting.
|
|
bbfinfl
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 77
Likes: 149
|
Post by bbfinfl on Dec 14, 2023 12:36:05 GMT -5
Written by Tim Hauser and VanDyke. Great lyrics, not sure what they mean but they sound great!
|
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Dec 14, 2023 14:16:02 GMT -5
It would be fantastic if Brian didn't sing the vocals. I agree on the vocals. Not Brian's fault necessarily, it's just that it doesn't make a lot of sense for Brian to be singing those kinds of lyrics, at that point. And I think Brian knew it, and probably Van Dyke Parks knew it too (isn't there a quote from Brian during the recording and he says something like "why am I singing this?" and Van Dyke says, something to the effect of "because I don't like the sound of my own voice")
Orange Crate Art is sort of a very interesting side-issue; it's complicated - when it was recorded, Van Dyke's motivation, where Brian was at the time (just coming out the Landy-situation), etc.
At the time, I dont think anybody expected Brian to make his musical comeback; I think to a lot of people he was done, and it was tragedy - Smile was gone forever and it was sad. I think Van Dyke was motivated by a number of factors: empathy for Brian, maybe a little guilt (which he really shouldn't have felt), a desire to complete *something* with Brian (given that Smile was gone and never to return) and also, there was a commercial benefit for Van Dyke (and Warner Bros.) - the album could get more attention with Brian on it than if it was Van Dyke doing the vocals. So it was win-win for Warner Bros. and Van Dyke on that respect, where doing a good deed for someone is also the right thing to do commercially. Van Dyke gives himself credit for bringing Brian back into the music business with that album.
Unfortunately, the sad thing, at the time, was the thing about "you can't go home again" - Brian singing Van Dyke's words in the Smile-era made sense; Brian knew why he was singing them and wanted to sing those words. But in the 1990s, Van Dyke's lyrical style is still there and Brian is no longer in that place (emotionally, vocally) where he could sing those words and pull it off.
The songs are good though, and for me, that's why the album is good. They sound better when Parks sings them himself, as on his live album Moonlighting.
Good post, Bookofb. Agree 100%.  |
|
|
|
Post by jk on Dec 14, 2023 16:11:04 GMT -5
I may be in the minority around here but I'm more than happy with Brian's vocals on this album. Good decision there by Van Dyke.  |
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2023 18:24:03 GMT -5
Van Dyke's orchestral arrangements and production on Joanna Newsom's album Ys are absolutey divine, one of my favorite all time albums.
|
|
