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Post by Emdeeh on Nov 28, 2021 14:43:00 GMT -5
I'm not in a hurry, there are other listening options in the meantime. But others may wish to take advantage.
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Post by Paul JB on Dec 2, 2021 20:00:34 GMT -5
I was fortunate enough to hear Brian‘s new songs for the long promised road movie. F**king fantastic, no autotune, no Joe Thomas nastiness, just Brian having fun, sounding very Brian. So to think that Brian can’t produce quality anymore is very false So I’m to believe that Brian has it in him to produce something great even though the last 10 plus years he’s produced nothing great (and I liked Gershwin and NPP but Brian sure as hell didn’t produce them) because you heard some great songs from a documentary that impressed you? Ok. I’ll stand by my comment. The guy capable of producing something great is releasing his same old songs again this time with no attempt at singing. When may I ask is this next great album being released…? Another ten years from now? The last time I saw Brian live in 2019 was the last time I’ll see Brian live. You heard some bleeping great songs… ? … that’s great. I live in the real world not the world I hope exists. Brian gave us enough. I don’t hold out false hope for something many people have been waiting for since 1967. When Brian releases the next great album come back and talk to me. And before the keep it positive patrol come down on me I have no issue with this release. Might be ok for what it is. What it isn’t is what I’ve been told for decades was coming however. I’d rather have the infamous Rock and Roll record and that would not be anything great. Rainboweyez…. Remember this exchange between us a while ago? At least one song that you had heard before the rest of us….that according to you is f’ing fantastic and proves Brian still can produce great music has its own thread with mostly meh to negative feedback from many lifelong fans.? I’ll follow up over there. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Dec 3, 2021 8:21:46 GMT -5
When Brian Wilson was young, he released Beach Boys albums where he was the composer, arranger, vocalist, and producer. Those are actually four quite different roles, and extremely demanding. Yes, they led to amazingly unique albums. But even the greatest musical artists of the 20th Century such as Gershwin, Cole Porter, Frank Sinatra, and The Beatles did not take on all four roles. It’s only natural that in later decades, Brian Wilson would turn to outside producers, composers, vocalists, or arrangers, and release albums that were more and more collaborative. And yet each album, from his debut in 1988 through this year’s offerings have something uniquely Brian Wilson to offer fans in at least one or more of those roles of songwriting, arranging, singing, or production.
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Post by John Manning on Dec 3, 2021 10:38:37 GMT -5
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 3, 2021 10:59:47 GMT -5
When Brian Wilson was young, he released Beach Boys albums where he was the composer, arranger, vocalist, and producer. Those are actually four quite different roles, and extremely demanding. Yes, they led to amazingly unique albums. But even the greatest musical artists of the 20th Century such as Gershwin, Cole Porter, Frank Sinatra, and The Beatles did not take on all four roles. It’s only natural that in later decades, Brian Wilson would turn to outside producers, composers, vocalists, or arrangers, and release albums that were more and more collaborative. And yet each album, from his debut in 1988 through this year’s offerings have something uniquely Brian Wilson to offer fans in at least one or more of those roles of songwriting, arranging, singing, or production. Yet, I rarely play any of his solo work and when I do with the exception of the Gershwin album, I only play a small select amount of songs. While some of the compositions are terrific, factors such as his vocals and production detract from my listening enjoyment. None of his solo work compares with his Beach Boys output through Friends. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Dec 3, 2021 11:32:36 GMT -5
So I’m to believe that Brian has it in him to produce something great even though the last 10 plus years he’s produced nothing great (and I liked Gershwin and NPP but Brian sure as hell didn’t produce them) because you heard some great songs from a documentary that impressed you? Ok. I’ll stand by my comment. The guy capable of producing something great is releasing his same old songs again this time with no attempt at singing. When may I ask is this next great album being released…? Another ten years from now? The last time I saw Brian live in 2019 was the last time I’ll see Brian live. You heard some bleeping great songs… ? … that’s great. I live in the real world not the world I hope exists. Brian gave us enough. I don’t hold out false hope for something many people have been waiting for since 1967. When Brian releases the next great album come back and talk to me. And before the keep it positive patrol come down on me I have no issue with this release. Might be ok for what it is. What it isn’t is what I’ve been told for decades was coming however. I’d rather have the infamous Rock and Roll record and that would not be anything great. Rainboweyez…. Remember this exchange between us a while ago? At least one song that you had heard before the rest of us….that according to you is f’ing fantastic and proves Brian still can produce great music has its own thread with mostly meh to negative feedback from many lifelong fans.? I’ll follow up over there. Meh, was a little over enthusiastic the first time I heard it, as I heard what was in the movie, not the full song from beginning to end. It’s fine. Not terrible, not absolutely fantastic, it’s… passable. Much like at my piano. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Dec 3, 2021 12:54:08 GMT -5
When Brian Wilson was young, he released Beach Boys albums where he was the composer, arranger, vocalist, and producer. Those are actually four quite different roles, and extremely demanding. Yes, they led to amazingly unique albums. But even the greatest musical artists of the 20th Century such as Gershwin, Cole Porter, Frank Sinatra, and The Beatles did not take on all four roles. It’s only natural that in later decades, Brian Wilson would turn to outside producers, composers, vocalists, or arrangers, and release albums that were more and more collaborative. And yet each album, from his debut in 1988 through this year’s offerings have something uniquely Brian Wilson to offer fans in at least one or more of those roles of songwriting, arranging, singing, or production. Yet, I rarely play any of his solo work and when I do with the exception of the Gershwin album, I only play a small select amount of songs. While some of the compositions are terrific, factors such as his vocals and production detract from my listening enjoyment. None of his solo work compares with his Beach Boys output through Friends. What about all the Beach Boys albums after Friends? That's a pretty early cutoff point. I continue to play all the Beach Boys albums and Brian Wilson solo albums, and I find the Brian Wilson solo albums to be at least as good as the Beach Boys albums after Holland. |
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Post by jds on Dec 3, 2021 12:58:35 GMT -5
I can't think of any pre-1992 albums I'd put below Brian solo albums, because at the very least Beach Boys albums give you that group vocal blend. Can't teach it, can't replace it.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 3, 2021 15:17:57 GMT -5
Yet, I rarely play any of his solo work and when I do with the exception of the Gershwin album, I only play a small select amount of songs. While some of the compositions are terrific, factors such as his vocals and production detract from my listening enjoyment. None of his solo work compares with his Beach Boys output through Friends. What about all the Beach Boys albums after Friends? That's a pretty early cutoff point. I continue to play all the Beach Boys albums and Brian Wilson solo albums, and I find the Brian Wilson solo albums to be at least as good as the Beach Boys albums after Holland. After Friends it becomes individual songs. Many of Brian’s songs on the 70’s album are usually the best tunes, but the output changed from “quality and quantity” to “quality less quantity”. After 1980, the songs begin to lose quality. As the 80’s close, for me it becomes more of a performance and production issue with Brian’s solo albums. |
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Post by Autotune on Dec 3, 2021 21:10:17 GMT -5
I can't think of any pre-1992 albums I'd put below Brian solo albums, because at the very least Beach Boys albums give you that group vocal blend. Can't teach it, can't replace it. i’ll put L.A. Light Album below TLOS and KTSA below BW 88 |
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Post by E on Dec 4, 2021 6:01:04 GMT -5
I'd put BW88 and TLOS over MIU and KTSA quite comfortably - probably over LA too - and, production issues aside, 15 BO and possibly Love You.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 4, 2021 8:28:44 GMT -5
I'd put BW88 and TLOS over MIU and KTSA quite comfortably - probably over LA too - and, production issues aside, 15 BO and possibly Love You. Performance-wise, neither solo album is as good as the Beach Boys worst album. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Dec 4, 2021 9:44:14 GMT -5
Perhaps we can add Brian Wilson solo albums to my Beach Boys LP comparisons, and see how they stack up song by song.
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Post by jds on Dec 4, 2021 12:40:11 GMT -5
Comparing BW '88 to Beach Boys albums is a tricky proposition because, inasmuch as the album has a thesis, it's an attempt to bring underutilized aspects of the band aesthetic back to the fore -- without the band. All I can say is that I'd have really like to heard "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long" with group vocals.
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Post by boogieboarder on Dec 4, 2021 16:30:27 GMT -5
Comparing BW '88 to Beach Boys albums is a tricky proposition because, inasmuch as the album has a thesis, it's an attempt to bring underutilized aspects of the band aesthetic back to the fore -- without the band. All I can say is that I'd have really like to heard "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long" with group vocals. I think BW ‘88 would compare favorably with contemporaneous albums such as 1985’s The Beach Boys or 1989’s Still Cruisin’. |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 4, 2021 16:42:02 GMT -5
Comparing BW '88 to Beach Boys albums is a tricky proposition because, inasmuch as the album has a thesis, it's an attempt to bring underutilized aspects of the band aesthetic back to the fore -- without the band. All I can say is that I'd have really like to heard "Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long" with group vocals. I think BW ‘88 would compare favorably with contemporaneous albums such as 1985’s The Beach Boys or 1989’s Still Cruisin’. With Brian’s singing voice, the 88 album would have benefitted from being a Beach Boys album. |
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Post by Autotune on Dec 4, 2021 17:27:14 GMT -5
I think BW ‘88 would compare favorably with contemporaneous albums such as 1985’s The Beach Boys or 1989’s Still Cruisin’. With Brian’s singing voice, the 88 album would have benefitted from being a Beach Boys album. no question about any of that. But the inconsistency and weak spots of some of the BBs albums, put them below some of Brian’s solo efforts. That said, I concur that, for a number reasons some of which will remain unknown, as an active creative force Brian took the passenger’s seat long before turning 30 and stayed there most of the time. That his mere presence raised the quality of lesser collaborators’ input may be a possibility, although discerning when and where Brian’s input in a song or production begins is chimeric at this point. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Dec 4, 2021 17:30:58 GMT -5
Melt Away with full BB harmonies would’ve elevated whats already an amazing track.
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Post by E on Dec 4, 2021 17:49:47 GMT -5
Yeah, but it's academic because he didn't have the Boys with him. Production wise, BW 88 is poor too - poorer than any BB album up to and including KTSA, but the songs are better and the album is more consistent. Of course, had the boy maintained his vocal chops from early 70s and back from there and had the production values been at least of 70s standard, BW 88 would have been much better because the songs are there - and they're not for most of MIU, KTSA and half of LA - including his own pretty deadful Shortenin' Bread
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 4, 2021 18:04:23 GMT -5
Yeah, but it's academic because he didn't have the Boys with him. Production wise, BW 88 is poor too - poorer than any BB album up to and including KTSA, but the songs are better and the album is more consistent. Of course, had the boy maintained his vocal chops from early 70s and back from there and had the production values been at least of 70s standard, BW 88 would have been much better because the songs are there - and they're not for most of MIU, KTSA and half of LA - including his own pretty deadful Shortenin' Bread And there is another point; poor production on BW 88. How does one of the the top producers in the industry through 1968 have poor production on his albums? You have 15 Big Ones, Love You, BW 88, GIOMH all with sub-par production. We know that Smiley Smile & Wild Honey were planned to be bare-bones, rootsy sounding records, but were all these others planned that way too or did Brian retire from the production rat race? Why does a once great producer need a Joe Thomas? With a good engineer and mixer, why couldn't Brian regain the driver's seat and fully produce his own records? |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Dec 4, 2021 18:10:54 GMT -5
Yeah, but it's academic because he didn't have the Boys with him. Production wise, BW 88 is poor too - poorer than any BB album up to and including KTSA, but the songs are better and the album is more consistent. Of course, had the boy maintained his vocal chops from early 70s and back from there and had the production values been at least of 70s standard, BW 88 would have been much better because the songs are there - and they're not for most of MIU, KTSA and half of LA - including his own pretty deadful Shortenin' Bread I disagree, I personally believe that KTSA sounds much worse from a production standpoint than anything the group or it’s associated members recorded, at least until summer in paradise |
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airplanetag
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 66
Likes: 103
Favorite Album: The Beach Boys Love You
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Post by airplanetag on Dec 4, 2021 19:21:38 GMT -5
You have 15 Big Ones, Love You, BW 88, GIOMH all with sub-par production. GIOMH I can agree on, but what do you think is sub-par about the production of the other three? They sound good to me, especially Love You. |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 4, 2021 19:54:17 GMT -5
You have 15 Big Ones, Love You, BW 88, GIOMH all with sub-par production. GIOMH I can agree on, but what do you think is sub-par about the production of the other three? They sound good to me, especially Love You. It’s not just clarity of sound or whatever. Compared to Brian of old, 15 Big Ones sounds kind of sterile. Singing is not up to band standards. Love You’s choice of basic instrumentation, singing, arrangements. Not necessarily bad, but so much different than his golden era. BW88 is another sterile sounding album with some bad lead vocals, too much Wall of Brian’s. A few co-productions. To me, just some bad decisions in the making of those records. |
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Post by jds on Dec 4, 2021 20:48:47 GMT -5
I think the decisions made with the final product of BW '88 were uniformly excellent -- think of all of the terrible songs from that era that could have made the record -- the problem was that Brian wasn't going to be able to go through years-long album production cycles cashing in favors from old friends and burning up industry goodwill again like he did with the making of that album.
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Post by AGD on Dec 5, 2021 5:22:22 GMT -5
Re: the production of the post 1988 BW solo albums, the best sounding - and frankly, most interesting - of the lot are BWPS, TLOS and the Gershwin & Disney albums. There's a common factor on them all, the complete absence of anyone with the initials JT.
[Yes, I know that also applies to the disappointing GIOMH, but anyone who is au fait with the recording process thereof understands why that is. I've long treasured a remark a dear friend of mine made at the time: "the basic mixing credo on this appears to be "everything louder than everything else"".]
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