Shawn
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 61
Likes: 59
Favorite Album: Friends
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Post by Shawn on Aug 21, 2021 8:39:22 GMT -5
Hi Stephen: I just discovered the existence of the study videos today (August 20/2021)- I've found the texts but not the audio- are they already down? Thanks, Tony Where are you finding the texts? When I go to the site I see just the three study videos, no text files. |
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Post by Mikie on Aug 21, 2021 11:12:41 GMT -5
Shawn, I just sent you a PM.
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Post by grimjim75 on Aug 21, 2021 12:16:46 GMT -5
Will this ever be released as an actual physical book?
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Post by Mikie on Aug 25, 2021 9:13:58 GMT -5
Bumpers.....
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Post by Stephen W. Desper on Aug 27, 2021 12:23:24 GMT -5
My interest isn't in judging, but curiosity about the pictured documentation, which appears to show the actual acetate of the songs eventually bootlegged as Landlocked. This seems to be a real important find, actually. COMMENT:
1) Landlocked is a myth created by the fan base and believed to be true by many. There is no Landlocked.
2) At the intro to my book it clearly states that these are my memories and recollections, based on my studio journal entries and other items I have in my collection. I was a part of BB history, but I am not a BB historian. However, many, many, times I was the only person there. So you'll just have to take me at my word.
3) I cut the acetates pictured and played in the study-videos. They were cut from a master tape reel I assembled at the direction of Carl Wilson. At the time two copies were cut. One went to Warner's and the other I retained. Warner's rejected the first offering, returning it with a note that they expected better and wanted a new offering. I have no idea where the first offering acetate is located, it may be destroyed. Perhaps my copy is the only surviving copy, whatever ... but it was not "discovered" as if some long-lost and forgotten disc. I've had it from the day I cut it. The master tape has long ago been re-assembled, but the disc is set-in-acetate.
Those are the facts. You can disagree if you wish, I don't care. I was there, you were not. It was me who cut the master tape together, not you. It was my fingers that lowered the cutting head onto the blank acetate, not yours. It was at my direction that the label was typed and affixed to the acetate ... where were you? The Acetate was hand-carried to Warner Brother Records office, and I doubt you were the messenger.
4) Someone asked what the songs were for the "first offering." I not only photographed the label, but took the trouble to record the entire acetate for you to hear. If you wish to dismiss the evidence presented, go ahead, but it does not change the facts, the disc I represented as a first offering, is the VERY DISC of that fact.
5) You've got it backward. Whoever said the order of the acetate is the same as the bootleg of landlocked has cart before the horse. (Maybe I'd better be clear on this as some of you may not know that a horse is used to pull a cart, not push it.) The back story is that, UNKNOWN TO ME, a junior employee of Artisan Recorders was running a copy machine in the back room of that facility and is the source of many bootlegs that eventually became available. So this Landlocked copy to which you refer is just an illegal copy of the 1st offering -- naturally they are the same. You know, people who make and sell bootlegs are thieves. They steal the royalties due the artist with their illegal copies. So if you are dealing with thieves, what makes you believe anything said or written on the bootleg is true or factual. These people will lie to sell their ill-gotten wares. Only a fool would believe a $39.95 watch is the same as a Rolex. Don't let your ignorance show too much!
6) As to dates on labels or union session sheets; as I have stated many times, these are not to be taken as written in stone or bearing some authority. Many times they are written up by the BB office, after the fact, and are only there to satisfy some bookkeeping requirement. Don't trust the dates, names of songs worked on, or who was even there. They may be useful as a general guide, but that's about it. For example, someone stated that August was the recording date. This is not how recording works. You don't just book into a studio one day in August to record a particular song. It may be a date for sweetening, but not the whole story. By way of example, the fan base believes that Sail On Sailor was first recorded after everyone returned from Holland, but the fact is that I was working with Brian on that song early on ... like during the time we were working on Sunflower. We even cut a track on the song, but no one believes this because it does not follow the "official story." So you need to be careful about stating the history you believe as if truth, as it may not actually be true for the people who lived through and were there at the time. Information from a second party source is more apt to be inaccurate.
THANKS TO EVERYONE for all the kind words you have written in my defense or to the point that we are dealing with events that took place fifty (50) years ago. Different times. No cell phones, no Internet, no digital; the focus was on making a musical record, not keeping a historical record. It was more important to get the sound right than to document who played what, at what hour, wearing what shirt, and taking so many minutes to make the cut. Documentation from that period may not even exist or if it does, the accuracy cannot be taken as literal. It was a different time with different attitudes. Many thank you's to those who appreciate the time I took to write down my memories of those days and my involvement with my friends, all six of them. And although ALL GLORY BELONGS TO GOD, I feel extremely fortunate and blessed to have contributed my small part to the fantastic talents that are present in the group calling themselves The Beach Boys. ~SWD
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher 
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 3,600
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Post by petsite on Aug 27, 2021 13:53:00 GMT -5
After reading Stephen's impassioned response, let me say this as a LONG TIME FAN. DO YOU HOW MANY TIMES WE HAVE BELIEVED SOMETHING YO BE TRUE THAT ISN'T? I have been a victim of that so many times. AFM sheets and other docs, as stated are not 100% written in stone truths. Other docs are the same. I mean my goodness, how many times over the years did we hear outtakes floating around with TITLE A only to find that wasn't the title at all.
So don't just hold tight to some fact if there is a chance its wrong. We are only as good as our latest information.
Thanks again Stephen for everything!
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Post by Micha on Aug 27, 2021 14:42:41 GMT -5
Mr. Desper!!! Thank you very much for your work back then and the time you spent to please us. I really admire you! No kidding.
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Post by Paul JB on Aug 27, 2021 21:32:08 GMT -5
Stephen….that was one of your best messages ever IMO.
Others here, I suggest you read what Stephen Desper wrote above and bookmark it. There is another thread going on right now where people are taking the EXACT opposite approach to what Stephen just laid out, and drawing crazy conclusions to things no one witnessed, including some putz who’s only motive is making money selling a book, and the author talked to people who mostly didn’t want to talk and have nothing to say but there is more to the story but they don’t want to say so the author talks about all kinds of crazy crap that is nothing but conjecture. Sorry to digress but it’s been under my skin the last few days and I’m done with that thread as it’s nearing we faked the moon landing territory.
I hope you stick around here Stephen as it’s always informative and fun to read just about everything you post.
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Post by filledeplage on Aug 28, 2021 6:35:37 GMT -5
Stephen….that was one of your best messages ever IMO. Others here, I suggest you read what Stephen Desper wrote above and bookmark it. There is another thread going on right now where people are taking the EXACT opposite approach to what Stephen just laid out, and drawing crazy conclusions to things no one witnessed, including some putz who’s only motive is making money selling a book, and the author talked to people who mostly didn’t want to talk and have nothing to say but there is more to the story but they don’t want to say so the author talks about all kinds of crazy crap that is nothing but conjecture. Sorry to digress but it’s been under my skin the last few days and I’m done with that thread as it’s nearing we faked the moon landing territory. I hope you stick around here Stephen as it’s always informative and fun to read just about everything you post. Yes, agreed. He is a prince, sharing his knowledge about the BB sound through his instructional videos. As a teacher, I’m pretty fussy about other teachers - and I think he is awesome where most are mediocre. With criticism, always “consider the source.” |
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Post by Mikie on Aug 31, 2021 14:34:57 GMT -5
Bump upper.....
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Post by DaveKFloyd on Sept 9, 2021 2:45:23 GMT -5
Where is mister Desper..?
Stephen, I trust you are well and keeping busy.
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Post by Mikie on Sept 9, 2021 9:22:05 GMT -5
Where is mister Desper..? Stephen, I trust you are well and keeping busy. Stephen's a very busy guy right now but will be back soon! |
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Post by dauber on Sept 9, 2021 9:43:22 GMT -5
Honestly, this is the first time I'm hearing that the AFM sheets are not necessarily reliable. You'd think someone would make sure they were accurate given how, from what I understand at least, they were used as a basis for the musicians' pensions, no?? (i.e., someone could be screwed out of money if they're not accurate)
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Post by DaveKFloyd on Sept 10, 2021 2:59:43 GMT -5
Where is mister Desper..? Stephen, I trust you are well and keeping busy. Stephen's a very busy guy right now but will be back soon! Thanks, Mikie. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Sept 10, 2021 7:37:59 GMT -5
Honestly, this is the first time I'm hearing that the AFM sheets are not necessarily reliable. You'd think someone would make sure they were accurate given how, from what I understand at least, they were used as a basis for the musicians' pensions, no?? (i.e., someone could be screwed out of money if they're not accurate) For what it's worth - I've probably seen more AFM contracts than anyone outside the actual AFM, and I've also heard a good number of session tapes (bootlegged and otherwise) in the course of my research. I can say that, in terms of Beach Boys sessions, the names listed on the contracts for a particular title virtually always match up with names mentioned or voices heard on the session tapes. Exceptions are usually when one of the actual Beach Boys is heard on the tape but not listed on the contract (meaning, for example, that Brian or Carl is clearly playing on a session but isn't among the musicians listed on the contract). We read stories about how shady record producers would sometimes list people who weren't actually on the session, or leave people off because they were paid "under the table" - but in terms of Beach Boys sessions (at least from the time Brian became the group's official producer), I've encountered no evidence of that. Session dates, however, are another matter. Although these usually align with what's listed on the tape box track sheet, sometimes there are discrepancies there. Maybe a contract wasn't submitted on time, and was therefore dated with a more recent date when it finally was, to avoid a union penalty. There are also times where the dates differ by a mere day - and those are usually instances where the contract indicates the session started around 11:00pm or midnight on a given day, and the date on the tape box is the next day's (because the session ran past midnight, and the engineer didn't write the date until then) - that kind of thing is easily explainable. EDIT: To Stephen's point - a very obvious, and notable exception to the accuracy of the Beach Boys' submitted AFM contracts seems to be in regards to those for the Surf's Up (album) sessions. Four of the five contracts submitted for the songs that appear on that album are clearly forward-dated, with multiple titles lumped together, and with the exception of Charles Lloyd and Woody Theus, only actual Beach Boys are listed among the musicians paid (not known supporting players such as Daryl, Dennis, and Kathy Dragon, Ed Carter, and Mike Kowalski). This is in stark contrast to the contracts from the Sunflower and So Tough eras, which seem to be quite accurate in terms of dates and personnel listed. Then there's the case of missing contracts. Although a huge amount of contracts still exist in the files of the AFM Local 47 (Los Angeles chapter), a good many don't. Whether this means none were submitted for the sessions in question, or whether they've simply been misplaced over the course of time, I couldn't say. |
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Post by karmafrog on Sept 10, 2021 22:59:20 GMT -5
After reading Stephen's impassioned response, let me say this as a LONG TIME FAN. DO YOU HOW MANY TIMES WE HAVE BELIEVED SOMETHING YO BE TRUE THAT ISN'T? I have been a victim of that so many times. AFM sheets and other docs, as stated are not 100% written in stone truths. Other docs are the same. I mean my goodness, how many times over the years did we hear outtakes floating around with TITLE A only to find that wasn't the title at all. So don't just hold tight to some fact if there is a chance its wrong. We are only as good as our latest information. Thanks again Stephen for everything! Word. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Oct 1, 2021 11:53:17 GMT -5
Mike, I agree. New things come to light about the band every day. It has only been the last year or two that I had the full story of how Sunflower was put together, rejected by Warner’s, resubmitted, name changed to Add Some Music in March 1970. Then there was the album still owed to Capitol that had to be put together in May or early June that was never submitted due to Capitol deciding to release Live In London. Then you have It’s About Time and Cool, Cool Water added in July, while also adding some of the Capitol album material for the final track listing that was accepted and released and renamed back to Sunflower. Very understandable that it took nearly 50 years to get all of the recollections together and piece the story together. We Beach Boys fans are very happy that Stephen Desper is willing to share his recollections and history with the band, along with sharing the wonderful music that was recorded and released under his watch. Most, if not all of us, understand that the memory can sometimes fail us, but we are sure thankful for sharing what he knows. Thank you Stephen for sharing with us here at the Endless Harmony Forum. You always have a home here with us. I don't understand why an album was put together in May or early June 1970 that was supposed to be the last Capitol LP, but was never submitted due to Capitol deciding to release Live in London makes sense - given that Live in London was not released in the United States that year at all, in fact not until November 15, 1976. Was there a last album owed Capitol or not? |
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Post by dauber on Oct 1, 2021 12:07:59 GMT -5
I don't understand why an album was put together in May or early June 1970 that was supposed to be the last Capitol LP, but was never submitted due to Capitol deciding to release Live in London makes sense - given that Live in London was not released in the United States that year at all, in fact not until November 15, 1976. Was there a last album owed Capitol or not?
Contractually they did owe one. And they delivered. I guess Capitol just decided not to release it, that's all. I'm sure someone might want to correct/clarify, especially the person who put this together and said that it was *the band* (not Capitol, as you say) who decided LIL over the "last Capitol album." 
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Oct 1, 2021 14:44:43 GMT -5
My understanding is that when it was clear that they weren’t going back with Capitol, the label decided that instead of a new studio album, that they would release Live In London. In the meantime, the Boys continued to ready an album that was to be submitted in late May or early June. Capitol then informed them that they didn’t want an album and nothing was ever submitted.
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Post by AGD on Oct 1, 2021 16:55:52 GMT -5
I don't understand why an album was put together in May or early June 1970 that was supposed to be the last Capitol LP, but was never submitted due to Capitol deciding to release Live in London makes sense - given that Live in London was not released in the United States that year at all, in fact not until November 15, 1976. Was there a last album owed Capitol or not?
Contractually they did owe one. And they delivered. I guess Capitol just decided not to release it, that's all. I'm sure someone might want to correct/clarify, especially the person who put this together and said that it was *the band* (not Capitol, as you say) who decided LIL over the "last Capitol album."
I've yet to see any evidence that they ever delivered that master to Capitol. Be delighted to see some.  |
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Post by ohm on Oct 1, 2021 17:03:48 GMT -5
I've really been marvelling at SD's work via Feel Flows. The sound pallete is so broad, and each and every part has such distinction, that just getting those vocal blends and the backings to sit together so sweetly was a remarkable feat of engineering, Every tune is a sonic world all of its own. What a dude.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 3,600
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Post by petsite on Oct 1, 2021 18:47:36 GMT -5
I just wanted to clear up something I posted earlier in this thread.
When Stephen said the following: Landlocked is a myth created by the fan base and believed to be true by many. There is no Landlocked.
I supported his statement by saying how many times have we been told that things exist that really don't. To numerous to mention.
BUT, the one thing I will take issue on is that LANDLOCKED (the title) was NOT born out of the fan base, but from an insider. Jack Rieley NUMEROUS times both contemporaneously and later on gave that title as the working title for SURF'S UP. He also gave it as a working title for CARL AND THE PASSIONS as well. We fans have made up some false information, but this one came from inside the camp.
As Jack said in an interview:
Landlocked came to me as an album title because it represented departure: it was meant as a demarcation line, separating striped shirted bullshit that had become irrelevant -- an object of public scorn -- from artistry, new creativity, great new songs. We even had a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Oct 1, 2021 19:04:34 GMT -5
I just wanted to clear up something I posted earlier in this thread.
When Stephen said the following: Landlocked is a myth created by the fan base and believed to be true by many. There is no Landlocked.
I supported his statement by saying how many times have we been told that things exist that really don't. To numerous to mention.
BUT, the one thing I will take issue on is that LANDLOCKED (the title) was NOT born out of the fan base, but from an insider. Jack Rieley NUMEROUS times both contemporaneously and later on gave that title as the working title for SURF'S UP. He also gave it as a working title for CARL AND THE PASSIONS as well. We fans have made up some false information, but this one came from inside the camp.
As Jack said in an interview:
Landlocked came to me as an album title because it represented departure: it was meant as a demarcation line, separating striped shirted bullshit that had become irrelevant -- an object of public scorn -- from artistry, new creativity, great new songs. We even had a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
So, the title in and of itself came from Rieley, but more importantly is that there was never a banded together set of tracks to be issued as “Landlocked”. Fans named that reel of songs, not Rieley or the Beach Boys. |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Oct 2, 2021 0:00:10 GMT -5
I just wanted to clear up something I posted earlier in this thread.
When Stephen said the following: Landlocked is a myth created by the fan base and believed to be true by many. There is no Landlocked.
I supported his statement by saying how many times have we been told that things exist that really don't. To numerous to mention.
BUT, the one thing I will take issue on is that LANDLOCKED (the title) was NOT born out of the fan base, but from an insider. Jack Rieley NUMEROUS times both contemporaneously and later on gave that title as the working title for SURF'S UP. He also gave it as a working title for CARL AND THE PASSIONS as well. We fans have made up some false information, but this one came from inside the camp.
As Jack said in an interview:
Landlocked came to me as an album title because it represented departure: it was meant as a demarcation line, separating striped shirted bullshit that had become irrelevant -- an object of public scorn -- from artistry, new creativity, great new songs. We even had a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
We even 'had' a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
'had'? Now that would be something I'd love to see.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 3,600
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Post by petsite on Oct 2, 2021 1:15:51 GMT -5
I just wanted to clear up something I posted earlier in this thread.
When Stephen said the following: Landlocked is a myth created by the fan base and believed to be true by many. There is no Landlocked.
I supported his statement by saying how many times have we been told that things exist that really don't. To numerous to mention.
BUT, the one thing I will take issue on is that LANDLOCKED (the title) was NOT born out of the fan base, but from an insider. Jack Rieley NUMEROUS times both contemporaneously and later on gave that title as the working title for SURF'S UP. He also gave it as a working title for CARL AND THE PASSIONS as well. We fans have made up some false information, but this one came from inside the camp.
As Jack said in an interview:
Landlocked came to me as an album title because it represented departure: it was meant as a demarcation line, separating striped shirted bullshit that had become irrelevant -- an object of public scorn -- from artistry, new creativity, great new songs. We even had a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
We even 'had' a cover: stark bright white san-serif letters on a stark black field.
'had'? Now that would be something I'd love to see.
Rick, you want to see it? Here it is. It was for sale but has been sold. Here is the description:
1970 original 12.25" x 15" test proposed artwork for unreleased "Landlocked" album. Black text on clear plastic. Includes 10 tracks printed at bottom right corner, none of which were ever intended for the album but are there merely as a sample of where the actual titles would have gone. Some light surface scuffs in plastic.
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