petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher 
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 3,255
|
Post by petsite on Jun 13, 2021 17:57:51 GMT -5
I was reading through some of the old Beach Boys Freaks United fanzines as well as the old Add Some Music and Pet Sounds papers. And I have to say, the internet has been extremely helpful for true fans to get the real story on what is happening with the group. Aside from the immediacy that comes with automatic feed back and editorialization, one can root out the truth of an event. If you have several people telling you what happened or what is under planning, you get a clearer picture of what is transpiring.
I bring this up because the old BBFU really sugar coated the Beach Boys and their world. Yes, they were doing their thing in conjunction with the group and it's record label, but their overall fawning really was a slap in the face to those of us who wanted to know what was truly going on.
As an example, Alice did an interview with the person in charge of setting up the whole July 5th, 1981 Long Beach show. While they brought up the truly bad job of mixing that was done, Alice said she didn't understand why people thought that the actual performance was bad. She said she was there and that it was a great performance and didn't understand the nay sayers. Seriously? It was a train wreck on live TV. If you don't or can't speak badly of the group because of partnerships, then just bypass it. But no, the magazine said it was great and people were wrong to judge it as falling short. But only a few weeks later in Rolling Stone, Carl said it was "a shitty performance". Also, BBFC avoided going into the whole Carl affair except to say they hope it all works out.
On the other hand, ADD SOME MUSIC was blunt in their assessment of the group at this time. Their review of the Chateau De Ville, Framingham MA show in April of 1982 was a true eye opener. It was like being there (after seeing them a few months before, it was truly like being there).
The point I am trying to make is that while some of us old timers dislike the new technologies, they have been beneficial in helping us get a better grasp of what is truly happening in and around the group. Yes their are still some bogus posts we have to plow through, but I think the internet is much better than having a few people running fanzines that only want to tell you what THEY believe you should hear, rather than the absolute truth of any situation. I actually posted something on Brian's page that was not derogatory at all, but Alice Lilly took it as such and said how dare I attack Brian. So that told me right there everything I needed to know about how she ran BBFC. It was like the page on FB a few years back that banned me because I posted a photo of the group from 1982 when Brian looked bad. I was told "we don't acknowledge that part of the group's career, and since it seems you do, you can no longer post."
Wow........
I have been told that I am the kind of guy that says "The house and car are on fire! We need to get the people out!" and I don't pay attention to the guy yelling "But look at this lawn Bob, its beautiful. How can you scream about the fire and not praise this lawn?"
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 14, 2021 0:22:15 GMT -5
The internet is also the very worst thing for true fans.
|
|
petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 3,255
|
Post by petsite on Jun 14, 2021 3:23:19 GMT -5
The internet is also the very worst thing for true fans. That too is sadly true. The crap that passes around as knowledge is truly astounding. And, like the fanzines, is usually pushing someone's singular point of view. Which is why those like AGD, and others (even me to the extent I can), need to dispel those rumors quickly. What also makes it hard, as we old timers know, is that this band, and especially Brian, can and will have a different answer for a question on Thursday than they gave on Tuesday. BUT BRIAN SAID THIS! NO HE SAID THAT! It is nice that we now can usually pull both quotes down from the net to try and figure out what is going on. |
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 14, 2021 8:26:08 GMT -5
I would say the people in Brian’s Posse and authors like David Leaf, people who were in the circle of influence, did more to perpetuate myths or one-sided Brian-centric pov’s, that they still get passed on by certain fans as truths.
|
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2021 8:41:25 GMT -5
I was reading through some of the old Beach Boys Freaks United fanzines as well as the old Add Some Music and Pet Sounds papers. And I have to say, the internet has been extremely helpful for true fans to get the real story on what is happening with the group. Aside from the immediacy that comes with automatic feed back and editorialization, one can root out the truth of an event. If you have several people telling you what happened or what is under planning, you get a clearer picture of what is transpiring.
I bring this up because the old BBFU really sugar coated the Beach Boys and their world. Yes, they were doing their thing in conjunction with the group and it's record label, but their overall fawning really was a slap in the face to those of us who wanted to know what was truly going on.
As an example, Alice did an interview with the person in charge of setting up the whole July 5th, 1981 Long Beach show. While they brought up the truly bad job of mixing that was done, Alice said she didn't understand why people thought that the actual performance was bad. She said she was there and that it was a great performance and didn't understand the nay sayers. Seriously? It was a train wreck on live TV. If you don't or can't speak badly of the group because of partnerships, then just bypass it. But no, the magazine said it was great and people were wrong to judge it as falling short. But only a few weeks later in Rolling Stone, Carl said it was "a shitty performance". Also, BBFC avoided going into the whole Carl affair except to say they hope it all works out.
On the other hand, ADD SOME MUSIC was blunt in their assessment of the group at this time. Their review of the Chateau De Ville, Framingham MA show in April of 1982 was a true eye opener. It was like being there (after seeing them a few months before, it was truly like being there).
The point I am trying to make is that while some of us old timers dislike the new technologies, they have been beneficial in helping us get a better grasp of what is truly happening in and around the group. Yes their are still some bogus posts we have to plow through, but I think the internet is much better than having a few people running fanzines that only want to tell you what THEY believe you should hear, rather than the absolute truth of any situation. I actually posted something on Brian's page that was not derogatory at all, but Alice Lilly took it as such and said how dare I attack Brian. So that told me right there everything I needed to know about how she ran BBFC. It was like the page on FB a few years back that banned me because I posted a photo of the group from 1982 when Brian looked bad. I was told "we don't acknowledge that part of the group's career, and since it seems you do, you can no longer post."
Wow........
I have been told that I am the kind of guy that says "The house and car are on fire! We need to get the people out!" and I don't pay attention to the guy yelling "But look at this lawn Bob, its beautiful. How can you scream about the fire and not praise this lawn?"
Is Add Some Music an online group? I was at one of those Chateau de Ville shows and it was not a bad show; I can’t speak for the shows that I did not see. Brian was not at the one I attended. |
|
|
|
Post by ian on Jun 14, 2021 8:53:36 GMT -5
Well there is of course no objective truth on these subjects. Yes a BBs show might be lousy or great but people who feel one way or the other are not necessarily lying. Carl discussed how he sometimes felt they went through the motions and played lousy shows but he noted that the audience would not always notice because they filled in what was missing with their minds, etc. And good vs bad is always subjective. I personally believe Brian had the best voice in the group in the 60s but you are not “wrong “ if you disagree. And of course he doesn’t sing like 1968 anymore. But if you know how badly he sang one occasion and then think he was in much better voice the next time-you might say he was great but a person who doesn’t know that history might be non-plussed. Similarly a fan that goes to BBs shows for years has different expectations from someone who has never seen them -so some are disappointed and others are not
|
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2021 9:16:08 GMT -5
Well there is of course no objective truth on these subjects. Yes a BBs show might be lousy or great but people who feel one way or the other are not necessarily lying. Carl discussed how he sometimes felt they went through the motions and played lousy shows but he noted that the audience would not always notice because they filled in what was missing with their minds, etc. And good vs bad is always subjective. I personally believe Brian had the best voice in the group in the 60s but you are not “wrong “ if you disagree. And of course he doesn’t sing like 1968 anymore. But if you know how badly he sang one occasion and then think he was in much better voice the next time-you might say he was great but a person who doesn’t know that history might be non-plussed. Similarly a fan that goes to BBs shows for years has different expectations from someone who has never seen them -so some are disappointed and others are not Of course, whatever “objective truth” means - “truth” is objective, different from opinion, maybe just a semantic. On some level the earlier nights provided a live sound check - if they had not rehearsed a lot, (which seemed to be a complaint of Carl) so the last night, was a breeze. It could have been a better and more enthusiastic crowd and often the band feeds off the crowd’s energy. Maybe I lucked out? |
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 14, 2021 9:33:17 GMT -5
"What is truth ?" said jesting Pilate, but would not tarry for the answer.
|
|
|
|
Post by E on Jun 14, 2021 11:46:57 GMT -5
Carl discussed how he sometimes felt they went through the motions and played lousy shows but he noted that the audience would not always notice because they filled in what was missing with their minds, etc. Yup. Seen this at a couple of Dylan shows, for instance. It's him and it's THOSE songs. |
|
petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 3,255
|
Post by petsite on Jun 14, 2021 12:19:15 GMT -5
I just remember thinking how the hell do you watch a July 5th concert and say it was a great show. I guess the atmosphere could have made some feel that, but I remdmber watching Brian sing DON'T WORRY BABY and was just floored that they allowed that song to stay in the setlist. He had sang it worse when I saw them in February, with Carl, and saw Carl cringe when Brian sang. To see that, then to see it on national TV was heartbreaking. Then to read BBFC say it was a great show just left me shaking my head. You get the feeling of living in a bad dream. The internet does allow back and forth which is good. That part I think is something that was missing from fanzines. You could write into the magazine, but months went by before you could read their rebuttal.
Now, while some truths are debateable, some truths are not. Brian sang DWB very badly on July 5th. No debate.
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 14, 2021 12:40:37 GMT -5
The thing you have to understand here is that, to the True Believer (or Brianista), Brian is utterly incapable of performing badly, or even less than superbly. It's like trying to argue with a Trump supporter. Factor in sundry f*ckwits and sh*tweasels and you've basically got how one sector of BB fandom functions these days.
|
|
petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 3,255
|
Post by petsite on Jun 14, 2021 13:23:53 GMT -5
The thing you have to understand here is that, to the True Believer (or Brianista), Brian is utterly incapable of performing badly, or even less than superbly. It's like trying to argue with a Trump supporter. Factor in sundry f*ckwits and sh*tweasels and you've basically got how one sector of BB fandom functions these days. Here here. I loved Bob Hanes. He was one of the best people I have ever met. Period. BUT, you could NEVER say a kind word about Mike Love around him. I told him how much better Mike's lyrics to GV were than the original, or how much the lyrics to WARMTH OF THE SUN moved me. He didn't want to here it. He was never mean, just didn't want to here it.
Of course, he did think that the July 5th concert was a total shit show. Want to hear something really crazy? Here we go. I got into a heated debate, in person, with a Brianista, that swore up and down that Brian, NOT CARL, sang Surf's Up in 1971. She said Carl couldn't sing that well, and that it was Brian trying to sound like Carl. That takes Batshit Crazy to a whole new level. She said that she would never listen to the 1971 version after the 30th boxset came out with the Brian solo version. I guess she must have LOVED the Brian version on the SMiLE box.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Jun 14, 2021 13:36:48 GMT -5
"What is truth ?" said jesting Pilate, but would not tarry for the answer. The truth is....you cannot tell someone something that they don't want to hear.
(I read that somewhere and can't take credit for it). |
|
|
|
Post by Autotune on Jun 14, 2021 14:46:50 GMT -5
Regarding the Queen Mary performance, yes it was appalling. But I doubt the mix at the venue was the dry nightmare that was caught on TV: Baker and Mike in-your-face mix, no echo, no harmonies, Brian croaking through his songs, Alan distracted half of the time… a mess. Then 5 years go by and what’s their next big national TV show? The Waikiki celebration!
|
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2021 14:57:51 GMT -5
Differences aside, I think that the internet did open doors for communication among BB fans from all locales. It was kind of an isolating experience to know your own heart’s gravitational pull toward music of any kind. The whole dismissive BB narrative in the late 60s that “the band was washed up” was impossible to swallow. Kids follow fads and trends, but if you realize that the music was neither a fad nor a trend, but had that quality of permanence that other bands lacked.
Who were those people who also realized it was a permanent state of affairs and not a flash in the pan? The ones that you did not recognize in your own home town, who would show up at local concerts, and some who find the interest hub in a place such as EH. Over time some of those new faces became acquaintances and more.
But, I think the internet was a great gift that brought fans together to discuss what they kept in the closet when amongst their friends. A place to compare notes and do some rudimentary research. Many found the BB web long before I - and in the 90s. My hat is off to them - those who pioneered this very enriching online journey.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 14, 2021 15:03:15 GMT -5
I’m having trouble recalling how wanton banning of people worked pre-internet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Autotune on Jun 14, 2021 15:11:34 GMT -5
Back in the old days there was hatred in equal if not bigger measure than today.
|
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 14, 2021 17:21:26 GMT -5
Back in the old days there was hatred in equal if not bigger measure than today. Yeah, but we all didn’t know about it. Until the Internet, I thought Beach Boys fans were as harmonious as the music they listen to. The Internet was a very rude awakening, at least for me. |
|
|
|
Post by Autotune on Jun 14, 2021 18:04:03 GMT -5
Back in the old days there was hatred in equal if not bigger measure than today. Yeah, but we all didn’t know about it. Until the Internet, I thought Beach Boys fans were as harmonious as the music they listen to. The Internet was a very rude awakening, at least for me. Yes. but back in the fanzine days, people were bitterly split regarding topics like the ML 1994 lawsuit, the demise of Smile or the “traveling jukebox” the BBs had become for some during the 80s/90. I believe i jumped in the game later than you, though. Maybe in earlier days it was different. |
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 14, 2021 19:52:53 GMT -5
The fanzine was never my scene. I belonged to the Beach Boys Freaks United from 1977 to 1979. My fandom was of my own kind and not influenced by outside factors, even close friends. I got my info from music magazine articles and that was about it. I will tell you though, it was a lot of fun running into that occasional Beach Boys fan, especially in the early to mid 70’s.
|
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 14, 2021 20:15:50 GMT -5
I was 14 when I bought BB85 hot off the racks. The inner sleeve had a plug for Fan Club membership; send $X and an SAE to blah blah.
I asked Mum if I could join, and she said, no, they'll just use the money to buy drugs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 14, 2021 20:58:25 GMT -5
I think it's great the internet has allowed fans to make contact with the band or the people supporting the band, and get better insights into the what's and why's. Not to mention fans being able to interact with each other - some of my great friends here I have and may never meet in the flesh, but the tech, especially recent tech has made face to face and quick sharing of Dad jokes etc disturbingly easy.
I don't find the axe-grinding continued circular discussion/foaming at mouth and reactive judgement of some historical events well over 40-50 years old with many of the main offenders long dead productive.
So, yes, while it's important to be critical and accurate re the legacy and history, it's also important to not let the conversation dwell on only the negative as things ultimately become irrelevant to the subject matter, ie, the band and the songs - there's a fine line when the discussion quickly becomes about the discussers not the OT.
Facebook will be the next great challenge (re axe-grinding and inaccurate history).
Now, to throw in an old man thing, when I was learning about the catalogue, it took mind boggingly long amount of time to fully source and listen to the full discography, in a very disconnected but eye-opening way. But I think has given me a different skew on the band, maybe I'm fooling myself. I am very happy for those who can binge the catalogue in a day due to streaming or other online sources, but I don't think I'd trade it for the slow-burn I experienced.
|
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 15, 2021 4:33:18 GMT -5
For balance, yes, in many many ways the internet has been a godsend, if only for the money saved on transatlantic phone calls ! And yes, it's got me in touch with band members, associates and fans that I wouldn't otherwise have so much as known of. I've been amazing places, met wonderful people and achieved a degree of mild renown, as well as (in some eyes) considerable notoriety, sometimes simultaneously, and that's no mean trick. But, as in any aspect of cyberspace, there are people who simply shouldn't be allowed online unsupervised, in some cases allowed online at all. At times the signal to noise ratio can be very low indeed.
|
|
|
|
Post by boogieboarder on Jun 15, 2021 10:14:37 GMT -5
The best thing about the internet for true fans is forums like this one, where fans can participate. Previously, all you could do was write a letter to a fanzine, and hope to see it published 3 months later.
|
|
