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Post by jk on Jun 10, 2021 15:05:11 GMT -5
Lately I've taken to visiting this prime area of the forum on my iPhone at moments when I'm away from my PC. I've selectively read many posts in threads on the first three pages and even "liked" a few -- mainly posts that interested me but had gone unliked by others. It was then that I understood that for the casual fan (for whom God isn't necessarily in the details) it must look pretty daunting at times. This new thread may not catch on but it may encourage others to launch a more, say, relaxed topic of their own -- and encourage the less fanatical fan to not feel excluded and join in.
Anyway...
Listening to my favourite SMiLE mix the other day, I was reminded of a remark by UEF at Smiley that "there's no high-hat on most Beach Boys records, supposedly. BW doesn't/didn't like the sound and instructed Dennis/Hal accordingly". The one example of a hi-hat in BW's music I can think of right now is in the fuzzed-out coda to the 2fer version of "Can't Wait Too Long", where it's used as just another percussion instrument.
In fact, Brian seems to have avoided cymbals in general. "Fire/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" may be the only BW music to use cymbal crashes to accentuate "the one" -- until we get to "Johnny Carson" with its iconic lone smash, although this really only accentuates itself.
Two other examples of cymbal work are to be found in "Catch A Wave", where Hal provides the rolls, and "Don't Talk", where the cymbal marks time to stunning effect.
I'm bound to have missed something somewhere! This is where you come in...
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Post by WillJC on Jun 10, 2021 16:24:14 GMT -5
It's an interesting topic, this, because that's an observation I've quite often seen brought up in Brian musical discourse where it's usually taken for granted as a part of the established lore, and I'm not all that sure it's true.
Brian's never been heavily into splashy cymbals, but hi-hats are all over his music. The loaded exception, really, is the two year stretch from Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile. It's that period in particular where Brian's drum patterns are more orchestrally minded and 'written', and that's when the cymbals become extremely few and far between. Especially Smile. From the close of Pet Sounds to Lei'd in Hawaii, you can count those tracks on one hand.
Look to before that, and after, and far more often than not there's a hi-hat in use somewhere, when the drum patterns lean towards more conventional rock and jazz type stuff. Most of Wild Honey, most of Friends, most of Sunflower, and anything at all with Ricky Fataar at the kit. Most of Dennis' appearances on 15 Big Ones or Love You are the same. Nearly all of the early stuff.
It's loud, smashy rock drumming that Brian tended to steer clear of. Cymbals have otherwise usually been an open option in his arrangement toolkit, to some degree. It's not so much that he's averse to them as it's that he's aware of how they can affect the texture of a track with a lot of moving parts.
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Post by jk on Jun 10, 2021 16:59:33 GMT -5
It's an interesting topic, this, because that's an observation I've quite often seen brought up in Brian musical discourse where it's usually taken for granted as a part of the established lore, and I'm not all that sure it's true. Brian's never been heavily into splashy cymbals, sure. But hi-hats? They're all over his music. Everywhere. The loaded exception, really, is the two year stretch from Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile. It's that period in particular where Brian's drum patterns are more orchestrally minded and 'written', and that's when the cymbals become extremely few and far between. Especially Smile. From the close of Pet Sounds to Lei'd in Hawaii, you can count those tracks on one hand. Look to before that, and after, and far more often than not there's a hi-hat in use somewhere. Most of Wild Honey, most of Friends, most of Sunflower, and anything at all with Ricky Fataar at the kit. Most of Dennis' appearances on 15 Big Ones or Love You are the same. Nearly all of the early stuff. It wasn't even uncommon for Brian to overdub an extra hi-hat for emphasis - see Good Time, Add Some Music, Back Home, It's OK, Palisades Park. It's loud rock drumming that Brian tended to steer clear of. Cymbals have otherwise usually been an open option in his arrangement toolkit, to some degree. It's not so much that he's averse to them as it's that he's aware of how they can affect the texture of a track with a lot of moving parts. (FYI, there's no hi-hat in the Can't Wait Too Long coda - just a tambourine. No drums at all in that segment of that version, if the 1968 track with the fuzz is the one you mean.) Oooff, I didn't half get that one wrong. Thanks for setting me straight! As for "CWTL", I could have sworn it was a hi-hat in the closing bars: Mind you, I remember declaring it was a clarinet on "I Went To Sleep"...  |
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Post by WillJC on Jun 10, 2021 17:06:38 GMT -5
Oh, yes, that's a hat. But that's not the track with the fuzz!
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Post by jk on Jun 11, 2021 4:16:29 GMT -5
Oh, yes, that's a hat. But that's not the track with the fuzz! 
On the subject of the flute on "I Went To Sleep", JH launched an illuminating clarinet discussion "across the road" that also addressed the deeper flutes. (I've been looking in vain for pictures of Jay M playing a bass flute (as on "Caroline, No") or indeed anyone at all playing a non-standard flute on a BB track.) |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jun 11, 2021 18:56:26 GMT -5
There aren't any pictures of anybody playing anything on a Beach Boys record other than the very early sessions at Capitol, Party, a couple Smile sessions, and a couple GV sessions, sadly. And I guess maybe some later stuff. The Caroline, No Flute quartet is one of the great moments in orchestration in Beach Boys history, I think. Very likely Jim Horn on the bass flute for that. I did find a great photo of a bass flute quartet from an LA session, unfortunately no BB regulars in it, but neat to see all the same:  It's from a Hank Mancini session. |
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Post by Al S on Jun 11, 2021 19:59:11 GMT -5
It's an interesting topic, this, because that's an observation I've quite often seen brought up in Brian musical discourse where it's usually taken for granted as a part of the established lore, and I'm not all that sure it's true. Brian's never been heavily into splashy cymbals, sure. But hi-hats? They're all over his music. Everywhere. The loaded exception, really, is the two year stretch from Pet Sounds to Smiley Smile. It's that period in particular where Brian's drum patterns are more orchestrally minded and 'written', and that's when the cymbals become extremely few and far between. Especially Smile. From the close of Pet Sounds to Lei'd in Hawaii, you can count those tracks on one hand. Look to before that, and after, and far more often than not there's a hi-hat in use somewhere. Most of Wild Honey, most of Friends, most of Sunflower, and anything at all with Ricky Fataar at the kit. Most of Dennis' appearances on 15 Big Ones or Love You are the same. Nearly all of the early stuff. It wasn't even uncommon for Brian to overdub an extra hi-hat for emphasis - see Good Time, Add Some Music, Back Home, It's OK, Palisades Park. It's loud rock drumming that Brian tended to steer clear of. Cymbals have otherwise usually been an open option in his arrangement toolkit, to some degree. It's not so much that he's averse to them as it's that he's aware of how they can affect the texture of a track with a lot of moving parts. (FYI, there's no hi-hat in the Can't Wait Too Long coda - just a tambourine. No drums at all in that segment of that version, if the 1968 track with the fuzz is the one you mean.) I’ve always thought it’s about the miking techniques and band style performances as well - the drums on BB albums, for me, were usually blended in, especially as you say on the orchestrated performances, as opposed to having that isolated sound prominent on rock albums. |
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Post by jk on Jun 12, 2021 3:44:17 GMT -5
There aren't any pictures of anybody playing anything on a Beach Boys record other than the very early sessions at Capitol, Party, a couple Smile sessions, and a couple GV sessions, sadly. And I guess maybe some later stuff. The Caroline, No Flute quartet is one of the great moments in orchestration in Beach Boys history, I think. Very likely Jim Horn on the bass flute for that. I did find a great photo of a bass flute quartet from an LA session, unfortunately no BB regulars in it, but neat to see all the same: It's from a Hank Mancini session. Thank you for the spectacular picture! I see Mancini used a quartet of bass flutes on quite a regular basis, "for a dark effect, sometimes writing a fall -- a descending figure -- at the end of the note, which gave a kind of paranoid effect." [ Source] |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jun 13, 2021 17:20:34 GMT -5
I mis-spoke earlier -- it's likely Bill Green on bass, Jim Horn and Jay on Altos, Plas Johnson on C concert flute, for Caroline, No's quartet.
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