petsite
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Post by petsite on Apr 30, 2021 20:02:27 GMT -5
First, before I go ANY FURTHER, I want to state that there are no better musicians and singers than those that tour with both Mike and Brian. I have spent a lot of time talking to them both and there are no better people to keep this catalog of music in the ears of all of the fans. Their talent is NOT in question. How could it be? They are simply the best. Brian's group alone has had McCartney himself just gushing in interviews.
That said, there is something about the STYLE they use when they perform. I wrote the following to AGD, not asking for a comment, just ranting. So I thought I would share with the rest of you what I was thinking about. Here goes.
I just want to say as an older fan, both groups, Brian's and the touring Beach Boys try SO FREAKING HARD to sound like the records. And that is admirable. And they come closer than anyone ever could. But they can't match what those records sounded like in the studio, so playing their guitars etc. clean and quiet but without the attendant echo and compression (never mind 5 guitars play together) just leaves an MOR feeling to their shows. Scott Totten (whom I admire a lot) said that listening to older shows with all the pushed up guitars and loud drums just doesn't sound like the records. But Carl knew how to make that material come alive. His distorted guitar and up front mixes just captured you up. Listen to California Girls from Knebworth then from 2012 live. Even taking in the age difference, that pounding beginning at Knebworth hooks you. Would love to see that type of show for a 60th anniversary.
I always think of an interview I have with Mike from the mid-80s and he is talking about how hard Student Demonstration Time sounds to him. He said they were trying to be something they aren't. He said the Beach Boys aren't a rock group. They are an MOR or an Adult Contemporary group. And that was back in the 80s so. It seems that is what they are now. Live performances are like films vs plays. In films, the line can be read quietly and with nuance. On stage, you have to play to the back of the theater. I wish the bands would do that as well.
COMMENTS?
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 30, 2021 21:20:56 GMT -5
I totally disagree. I want to hear the music that Brian (and the others) wrote, not a thick, bludgeoning mass of distorted guitars. The Beach Boys' best music has a delicate, intricate, beauty to it that would often get lost in the simplified, guitar-heavy arrangements of the late seventies and early eighties. I don't think live music needs to lack nuance and subtlety at all -- indeed most of the most astonishing moments of live performance I've experienced have been seeing musicians performing without any bombast at all (and indeed many of the best moments I've seen in theatrical performances were actors giving very quiet, subdued performances). There are thousands of bands out there that can do distorted guitars and loud drums if that's what you want. It's not what I want...
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 30, 2021 21:41:36 GMT -5
Oh I definitely understand what you’re saying. It’s especially clear during the pet sounds shows, that The band is just literally doing everything they possibly can to create the original studio version, note for note, lick for lick, sound for sound. It’s an amazing Display of talent, but it also take something away from the live experience. One of the reasons I love the beach boys in concert 1973 live album so much, and the entire early 70s period is because a lot of the arrangements are a lot different than what you hear in the studio version. And I love that, it’s fun and gives the show more energy and a unique quality. Meanwhile, if I wanted to hear a layer by layer complete re-creation of the original Albums or Songs, I would just listen to the original albums. In conclusion, I completely understand your frustration.
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Post by lonesurf on Apr 30, 2021 21:41:43 GMT -5
Count me as a fan who loved when the band used to play with the arrangements and presentation. Just listened to Do It Again from the Philadelphia Spectrum show in ‘80 today & as always, was knocked out by the extended intro & the energy.
More recent concerts are wonderful recreations, and both bands are top notch, but each is now more like seeing a carefully curated exhibition. Nice, but I miss the occasional unexpected moments / excitement.
Then again, I guess it’s a miracle that there are still original Beach Boys involved at all.
I appreciate it all.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Apr 30, 2021 22:13:07 GMT -5
I totally disagree. I want to hear the music that Brian (and the others) wrote, not a thick, bludgeoning mass of distorted guitars. The Beach Boys' best music has a delicate, intricate, beauty to it that would often get lost in the simplified, guitar-heavy arrangements of the late seventies and early eighties. I don't think live music needs to lack nuance and subtlety at all -- indeed most of the most astonishing moments of live performance I've experienced have been seeing musicians performing without any bombast at all (and indeed many of the best moments I've seen in theatrical performances were actors giving very quiet, subdued performances). There are thousands of bands out there that can do distorted guitars and loud drums if that's what you want. It's not what I want... Totally respect your opinon. That's why I like this board.
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Post by John Manning on Apr 30, 2021 23:36:53 GMT -5
I get this. Both bands’ shows are fabulous; however in trying to replicate the records something “in the moment” is lost. There’s very little room for improvisation, looseness, no jamming, no sense that the musicians are relaxing and going with the flow.
And yet one of the joys of those 2000/2002 Pet Sounds and 2004 Smile shows by Brian and his band was the recreation of the studio sound (listen to the rehearsals from even earlier tours, and the musicians can be heard recreating the studio chatter that can be found on the Sea of Tunes bootlegs!).
One of the few reasons I regret not being older is that I missed out on hearing The Beach Boys live as they were during the early ‘70s, when they really rocked out, were loose and chilled and frankly, to my ears, cool as hell. The arrangements were respectful but allowed the musicians to stretch themselves while enjoying the gigs, and they were cool, in tune with their contemporary audience, playing contemporary music.
With two bands on the road today, there’s surely some room for more of that? Blondie brings a taste of it to Brian’s band… I’d be all for more.
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Post by Al S on May 1, 2021 1:25:36 GMT -5
I like the opportunity playing live can provide a band to explore a new aspect or add something fresh to a song - take for example Caroline No on In Concert, the intensity ramped up by the looser jazzy cosmic flute.
With the current comprehensive set lists trying to cover 50 years of tunes in 2 or so hours, it’s all well done but can be a bit like a travelling museum.
And hey, it’s live, you want your socks knocked off for your $190 bucks, man.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on May 1, 2021 2:26:10 GMT -5
Pull out your 2012 Live CD (or download) and listen to Marcella. It rocks some in the beginning, but not like the 1973 In Concert. But, when Brian's band does it, they do it like the 73 version, and they blow it away. In 2004, they did it in the encore and started riffing a little of Born On The Bayou in the ending. So cool.
By the way, I always thought that both Marcella AND Keeping The Summer Alive should have been cut in the studio in the arrangement they did on the road. Both tunes would have been better for it. KTSA with that piano figure in the beginning sounds so limp compared to the version on Knebworth.
Here is Mike's quote from a 1992 Goldmine interview. The interviewer was talking about the 70s LPs and mention IT'S ABOUT TIME from SUNFLOWER:
AOR - Album-Oriented Rock
Radio stations that specialized in rock music recorded during the later 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s were generally labeled Album-Oriented Rock (AOR) stations. The symbiosis between AOR stations and bands such as Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, and Aerosmith has led many to refer to virtually all 1970s era hard rock bands as AOR as well.
AC - Adult Contemporary
In North American music, adult contemporary music (AC) is a form of radio-played popular music, ranging from 1960s vocal and 1970s soft rock music to predominantly ballad-heavy music of the present day, with varying degrees of easy listening, pop, soul, R&B, quiet storm, and rock influence.
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chewy
Dude/Dudette
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Post by chewy on May 1, 2021 3:29:19 GMT -5
Beach Boys touring band: more live feel- espically w/ John Cowsills style- rippin setlist one hit after the other no stopping just go go go, a 1,000,000mph show.....
Brians band: more like a studio band, but live in front of you
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Post by AGD on May 1, 2021 4:21:31 GMT -5
Both bands are outstanding in their different ways. I'm lucky to have seen both. Some "fans" refuse to go see Mike for no better reason than "it's Mike". Their choice, their loss. Fact is that in five years - possibly much less - none of the originals will still be touring. Think about that.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on May 1, 2021 6:27:34 GMT -5
Both bands are outstanding in their different ways. I'm lucky to have seen both. Some "fans" refuse to go see Mike for no better reason than "it's Mike". Their choice, their loss. Fact is that in five years - possibly much less - none of the originals will still be touring. Think about that. AMEN.
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Post by Autotune on May 1, 2021 6:31:49 GMT -5
I think there’s something about most BB music that goes against the very notion of jamming or letting go to a big extent. Most songs are very tightly-constructed structures, with carefully thought-out instrumental and vocal arrangements. It’s not that they lack spontaneity, freshness or “spirit of the moment”, but improvisation was incorporated into a firmly-knit final result.
It’s not like you can gather four of your best friends and immediately come up with a decent rendition of I Get Around: your friends need to sing and play well, and you need enough instrumentalists to fill out parts that, if lacking, the song will not be itself. This is not immediate music in the sense that, for instance, the Beatles’ early songs were.
My point is that there is a comparatively limited framework for stage-creativity while preserving the integrity of THIS music. None of the current bands, nor any of the earlier incarnations, had it easy for them.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on May 1, 2021 12:04:22 GMT -5
Both bands are outstanding in their different ways. I'm lucky to have seen both. Some "fans" refuse to go see Mike for no better reason than "it's Mike". Their choice, their loss. Fact is that in five years - possibly much less - none of the originals will still be touring. Think about that. It would be one hell of an accomplishment, but I would not be surprised five years from now if Mike is still touring.
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Post by Ham Burgerstand on May 1, 2021 12:51:02 GMT -5
Both bands are outstanding in their different ways. I'm lucky to have seen both. Some "fans" refuse to go see Mike for no better reason than "it's Mike". Their choice, their loss. Fact is that in five years - possibly much less - none of the originals will still be touring. Think about that. It would be one hell of an accomplishment, but I would not be surprised five years from now if Mike is still touring.
Call me sentimental, but I suspect Mike's involvement will depend on what Mick Jagger is (or isn't) still doing five years from now.
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Post by E on May 1, 2021 13:39:29 GMT -5
It would be one hell of an accomplishment, but I would not be surprised five years from now if Mike is still touring.
Call me sentimental, but I suspect Mike's involvement will depend on what Mick Jagger is (or isn't) still doing five years from now.
Siring more children?
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 1, 2021 14:02:32 GMT -5
If I want to hear the original arrangements, I can listen to the records. I have seen the band many times over the past 5 decades and while I loved shows like the 93 box set tour, my favorite shows are still those early to mid 70s concerts for being edgy and exciting. The 1980 Philadelphia Spectrum show was one of the most exciting shows that I ever attended. Those edgier arrangements made all the difference. I swear it felt like the building was rocking. I have been to bigger events later in the 80s and 90s, but nothing has equaled that show. The shows with Blondie and Ricky were also great. Crowds on their feet for most of the show. It was those heavy, edgy arrangements that made those old songs sound new. Back then, the Beach Boys ROCKED!
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Post by Autotune on May 1, 2021 14:13:27 GMT -5
I’m sure the Blondie era was very exciting. Still, from listening to audio tapes, I get the feeling that between songs one could go to the bathroom, relieve oneself and comeback, only to find the band hasn’t started playing yet.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 1, 2021 14:31:37 GMT -5
I’m sure the Blondie era was very exciting. Still, from listening to audio tapes, I get the feeling that between songs one could go to the bathroom, relieve oneself and comeback, only to find the band hasn’t started playing yet. And there is something wrong with that? 😉 The shows were more intimate with the band talking between songs and tuning their instruments. It also gave you chance to have a drink from your lamb skin and maybe smoke a doobie or two. It was an event and we treated it as such. 🙂
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Post by Mikie on May 1, 2021 15:00:14 GMT -5
Well said, Lonesurf, with just a few words and without the need for justification. I just wrote a long well thought-out post, lost it, and I'm not going to write it again. Thank me later. I've seen many incarnations of The Beach Boys live, past and present since 1973, including many solo shows by Brian, Carl, and Al and their bands. In a nutshell: Carl had the Beach Boys rockin' in the 70's. All-balls-out free form singing and playing and switching vocal/guitar parts around with top shelf musicians. They brought the oldie moldie songs up to speed for the hip college crowds and presented new songs to promote their recent albums in the early 70's. Then a resurgence in 1974/'75 with a new generation of Endless Summer fans on board with an emphasis on playing the old songs. There's a member of this board who wants to obtain every live show that he can from the 70's era. He has great taste! Luckily, some shows from this era have been booted for posterity. Listen for yourself "Beach Boys In Concert" from 1972/'73 and its outtakes.* How can you have the slightest reservation that these shows were not the all-time best? Fast forward to Brian's band. Again top notch musicians. While the Beach Boys have played all the hits over the years and in the last few years quite a bit of deep cuts, they didn't do the entire Smile Sessions live. Brian's band has also done a lot of rarities and the entire Pet Sounds album (ad nauseum ) and, like The current Beach Boys, have played stuff we only sat and dreamed of them playing a couple of decades ago. With some exceptions, both bands now play/sing the songs by the book. So you have the best of both worlds. Can you compare the two bands? You can if you want to, but I won't. I can only encourage fans who haven't seen either band to go see them now, because they probably won't be around that much longer. It's worth your time and $. * Now, if I can get a hold of that elusive soundboard recording of the 1975 Beachago tour to go with my shirt and poster....
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petsite
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Post by petsite on May 1, 2021 17:12:25 GMT -5
I last saw the Mike led group in 2014. It was the last time they were here indoors in the summer. They kicked ass and did some deep cuts. Not seeing them cuz it's Mike is missing out. The guys backing him are as good as Brian's team. The cross over in 2012 formed friendships. Several had met before. My view on how they perform will NEVER stop me from going to see both.
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Post by Mikie on May 2, 2021 11:18:08 GMT -5
I'd be interested in hearing long-time fans Filleplage and Custom Machine's take on this subject.
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Post by Mikie on May 2, 2021 13:05:37 GMT -5
Yesterday in Texas (courtesy of Elora). Looks like Brian "Ike" Eichenberger hasn't lost a step with the falsetto! Mike, on the other hand, seems to be slowing down a little - he's definitely not 100%. Dunno about Bruce either. Cranking them out one after the other - this concert goes as fast as the cars on "Shut Down".
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Post by lonelysummer on May 2, 2021 15:12:16 GMT -5
Man, it's depressing to see that other states are allowing live music again, while here in the Northwest, we're still on lockdown. The Beach Boys are scheduled for the fair in September, but I will be surprised if it doesn't get cancelled again. If you get the chance to see these guys again, do it! We're running out of time.
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Post by filledeplage on May 2, 2021 16:21:28 GMT -5
I'd be interested in hearing long-time fans Filleplage and Custom Machine's take on this subject. Thanks for asking, Mikie. It is complicated. A live performance (except for some carve outs such as Pet Sounds and Smile) should be some version tailored for the public. It is not as scripted as a studio recording is, even if you want to come close with the original orchestration. The whole Student Demonstration Time thing was kind of anomaly - albeit if leading into the Holland era with a type of music that aimed at being responsive to what was going on and in-their-faces with the anti-war movement. We were not living in la-la land, even though the early music was about pleasure, in sport, cars and with boys and girls coming of age. But - I don't agree with Mike on this one - that they were trying to be something that they weren't. Hearing that song - not even a single in the US but with big airplay on college campuses and college towns fm stations; it just resonated. We knew that the band was not operating on another planet, which was the prevailing perception. They were affected by the Vietnam War - whether it was Carl's draft or playing free shows at prisons or other locations, to satisfy Carl's arrangements with the court to avoid contempt. The shows at that time took on the aura of an extended jam session - with certain songs - and that was very uncharacteristic of them. They were not just running through the setlist that they had written, with a flair pen on their palms. You can hear some of that on that '73/74 Concert album. I had seen some of those college shows and they were pure fire and exactly the opposite of Mike's statement - they took a risk and stepped outside their comfort zone - even if only for that Vietnam era window, forced their own growth, and man did they ever get respect. They were no longer just dismissed as a has-been surf band. When you are in the audience - you get to hear what people are saying. They had evolved. Now - they plan and tailor the setlist to the venue and the crowd. It is not a spontaneous jam with certain songs. What I observed after C50 was that Brian's band rocked more - and Mike's band became more nuanced with more support musicians for the studio effect that Brian's band had - so whatever people say about C50 - they both learned from each other. They both had takeaways.
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Post by Autotune on May 2, 2021 18:39:18 GMT -5
I thought it was a pretty good show, considering they’ve been hibernating for the better part of the last year and a half. The 80-year-old beach guy carried the show gracefully, and everything seemed to go smoothly.
With the right balance between continuity and rest they’ll reach top form; unfortunately the pandemic doesn’t allow for that.
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