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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 9:55:13 GMT -5
Here is the link to my introduction made a few hours ago in case you want to know who I am. endlessharmony.boards.net/thread/1334/hi-nts1drums-nateNow for the question. There was a thread about Mark Linett and Alan Boyd finding some multi tracks and doing some remixing from the Smiley Smile website (Edit: Found it! smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26956.msg658861.html#msg658861) & San Miguel was brought up, with the instruments played and who was playing them. iirc there were two overdubs after the horns and strings were overdubbed (that’d be interesting to know too, actually): the percussion (castanets & timpani) and the fuzz guitar/ kazoo solo. Listed on the first was Dennis Wilson and Hal Blaine, the 2nd Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson. Do we know which specific overdubs they played? Is it a kazoo with a fuzz guitar (as someone mentioned in the Smiley Smile thread) or is it just an audio trick? I’m willing to bet the castanets are Hal Blaine, and the timpani is Dennis. Could be wrong, but based on the recordings they were on previously up to that point (Jan ‘69) it sounds like that. Of course, Dennis could have only been listed since he was there producing the overdubs, but it’d be interesting regardless. EDIT: I think there is a list of horn players, too, but I can’t tell specifically what they play, and the string players are basically unknown. So the question now is: Who played the horns and strings? Who did what percussion on the track? and What did Dennis & Carl play at that session? Kazoo? Fuzz Guitar? Both? |
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 12:19:09 GMT -5
Looking back at some notes I drew on different device:
Guitars: Carl Wilson (electric/acoustic) & James Burton (acoustic)
Piano: Dennis Wilson
Marimbas: Daryl Dragon
Hammond Organ: Dennis Wilson
Moog Synthesizer: Dennis Wilson
Bass: Lyle Ritz
Drums: Hal Blaine
Castanets: Hal Blaine
Tambourine: Dennis Wilson
Trumpets: Fred Koyen, Mike Price & Darryl Eaton
Tenor Saxophone: Roger Neumann
Baritone Saxophone: Ernie Small
Violins: Spiro Stamos, Marilyn Baker, Jay Rosen, George Poole & Jack Gootkin
EDIT: Made some changes.
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 13:32:25 GMT -5
Looking back at some notes I drew on different device: Guitars: Carl Wilson (electric/acoustic) & James Burton (acoustic) Piano: Dennis Wilson Marimbas: Daryl Dragon Kazoo?: Dennis Wilson? Bass: Lyle Ritz Drums: Hal Blaine Castanets: Hal Blaine Timpani: Dennis Wilson? Trumpets: Fred Koyen, Mike Price & Darryl Eaton Tenor Saxophone: Roger Neumann Baritone Saxophone: Ernie Small Strings: Roger Neumann and 5 other violinists (who?) That's pretty much right, except there's no kazoo on the track, and Roger Neumann didn't play a stringed instrument, just Sax. He did arrange the string arrangment, though. String players were Spiro Stamos, Marilyn Baker, Jack Gootkin, George Poole, and Jay Rosen. |
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Post by WillJC on Apr 17, 2021 13:40:19 GMT -5
There's also no timpani, but there is a brief tambourine. First solo is two overdriven guitars, second solo is likely two Moogs. On top of that Dennis played tack piano and Carl likely played organ.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 17, 2021 13:45:52 GMT -5
Looking back at some notes I drew on different device: Guitars: Carl Wilson (electric/acoustic) & James Burton (acoustic) Piano: Dennis Wilson Marimbas: Daryl Dragon Kazoo?: Dennis Wilson? Bass: Lyle Ritz Drums: Hal Blaine Castanets: Hal Blaine Timpani: Dennis Wilson? Trumpets: Fred Koyen, Mike Price & Darryl Eaton Tenor Saxophone: Roger Neumann Baritone Saxophone: Ernie Small Strings: Roger Neumann and 5 other violinists (who?) That's pretty much right, except there's no kazoo on the track, and Roger Neumann didn't play a stringed instrument, just Sax. He did arrange the string arrangment, though. String players were Spiro Stamos, Marilyn Baker, Jack Gootkin, George Poole, and Jay Rosen. If there is no kazoos, then what instrument is making the kazoo-like sound during the middle break? |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 17, 2021 13:49:59 GMT -5
Wait so is it the Moog that gives the solo that “kazooish” quality?
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 13:50:12 GMT -5
There isn’t? So it’s just Carl’s distorted guitar?
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 13:51:17 GMT -5
Wait so is it the Moog that gives the solo that “kazooish” quality? No moog players are noted so unlikely. |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 13:51:23 GMT -5
There's the guitar solo which is two guitars in harmony, and there's the moog thing toward the end.
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 13:52:55 GMT -5
There's also no timpani, but there is a brief tambourine. First solo is two overdriven guitars, second solo is likely two Moogs. On top of that Dennis played tack piano and Carl likely played organ. Really? Didn’t know that. The mix on the 1993 box set is so bad I couldn’t even tell. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 17, 2021 13:53:15 GMT -5
Wait so is it the Moog that gives the solo that “kazooish” quality? No moog players are noted so unlikely. Salty mentioned a Moog. There's also no timpani, but there is a brief tambourine. First solo is two overdriven guitars, second solo is likely two Moogs. On top of that Dennis played tack piano and Carl likely played organ. |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 13:53:47 GMT -5
Wait so is it the Moog that gives the solo that “kazooish” quality? No moog players are noted so unlikely. Pretty much everybody in the Beach Boys recording ambit at the time fooled around with the Moog from time to time. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 17, 2021 13:56:33 GMT -5
There's also no timpani, but there is a brief tambourine. First solo is two overdriven guitars, second solo is likely two Moogs. On top of that Dennis played tack piano and Carl likely played organ. Really? Didn’t know that. The mix on the 1993 box set is so bad I couldn’t even tell. There’s a much better mix 27 minutes into this video, but it has people talking over it. |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 13:56:54 GMT -5
I don't really hear the guitar solo as sounding a lot like a kazoo, anyway, but if anything in the guitar solo is suggestive of kazoos, it's probably to do with the way a heavily fuzzed guitar's waveform gets soft clipped in a way similar to the waveform the vibrating wax paper does in a kazoo.
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Post by WillJC on Apr 17, 2021 14:10:06 GMT -5
The sudden octave sweep at the end of the second instrumental break is only really possible with a synthesizer (it isn't something sped up), and besides, it just doesn't... sound like another instrument. The smooth pitch slides would come from a ribbon controller.
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 14:17:30 GMT -5
No moog players are noted so unlikely. Pretty much everybody in the Beach Boys recording ambit at the time fooled around with the Moog from time to time. When was the moog introduced to The Beach Boys? Maybe that might help. I thought it was Feb ‘69. |
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Post by WillJC on Apr 17, 2021 14:19:04 GMT -5
Pretty much everybody in the Beach Boys recording ambit at the time fooled around with the Moog from time to time. When was the moog introduced to The Beach Boys? Maybe that might help. I thought it was Feb ‘69. Well, evidently January '69! But Dennis had fooled around with one on his original take at Mona Kana in 1968, and Brian played one on Goodnight My Love by the Honeys later that year. They'd been working with a compact Moog variant on stage since 1966 to mimic Paul Tanner's instrument. |
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 14:27:26 GMT -5
Alright, that’s interesting to know! Would Dennis have played the moog then?
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 14:29:05 GMT -5
And I’m assuming from the list that the strings are just violins? I’m not much of an expert when it comes to identifying string and horn instruments.
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 14:30:24 GMT -5
When was the moog introduced to The Beach Boys? Maybe that might help. I thought it was Feb ‘69. Well, evidently January '69! But Dennis had fooled around with one on his original take at Mona Kana in 1968, and Brian played one on Goodnight My Love by the Honeys later that year. They'd been working with a compact Moog variant on stage since 1966 to mimic Paul Tanner's instrument. It's really a pretty interesting story -- the relationship between the Beach Boys and modular synthesis. Because of their contacts with Bob Moog and Paul Beaver, and to some extent, even Brian's interest in Paul Tanner's work, they had the right mindset and resources to be aware of those things. According to Desper, the rented a 55 system for a little while before they bought one for the studio. I'd think that the really early sessions at outside studios would be the rented ones (or Paul Beaver's own personal set-up before he was called in.) |
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 17, 2021 14:35:55 GMT -5
And I’m assuming from the list that the strings are just violins? I’m not much of an expert when it comes to identifying string and horn instruments. That's likely correct -- all of those 5 are primarily violinsts from what I can gather. |
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Post by WillJC on Apr 17, 2021 14:36:08 GMT -5
Well, evidently January '69! But Dennis had fooled around with one on his original take at Mona Kana in 1968, and Brian played one on Goodnight My Love by the Honeys later that year. They'd been working with a compact Moog variant on stage since 1966 to mimic Paul Tanner's instrument. It's really a pretty interesting story -- the relationship between the Beach Boys and modular synthesis. Because of their contacts with Bob Moog and Paul Beaver, and to some extent, even Brian's interest in Paul Tanner's work, they had the right mindset and resources to be aware of those things. According to Desper, the rented a 55 system for a little while before they bought one for the studio. I'd think that the really early sessions at outside studios would be the rented ones (or Paul Beaver's own personal set-up before he was called in.) The Jan 1968 Brian interview with Jamake Highwater is fascinating for that. He's apparently hearing about it for the first time and hardly cares! July 1970 would be about when they bought one, right? Besides the CCW debut, it's on a few tracks on the Flame album that was finished up around that month. |
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 14:45:16 GMT -5
Someone mentioned a tambourine and organ, where would I hear those instruments? Do we have more session tapes or afm contracts aside from the basic track that Craig listed in the smiley smile thread?
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 14:58:15 GMT -5
Craig said the piano on the basic track was Dennis, and that the basic also had the marimba played by Daryl, iirc.
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 17, 2021 15:32:46 GMT -5
Hmmm, so looking at this, it appears I need to update the list! Check the post on the first page to see my edits.
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