|
|
Post by radiantradish on Jul 12, 2020 6:57:40 GMT -5
I have never really got on with BWPS... until now.
When it came out I was thrilled of course to hear the finished work, and listened to it a lot at the time. But I’ve always found the sound too “‘modern” and harsh. I’ve put that down to a lot of things over time: the recording methods, the instruments, Brian’s voice, the vocals of the group.
But I’ve just got hold of a rip of the vinyl in high res, and I’m blown away by the sound and subtlety of the recording. It’s transformed it for me. I looked it up on the loudnesswars site, and sure enough the vinyl is a far less compressed mastering.
So if anyone has not heard the vinyl, I’d urge you to listen to it as it’s a totally different experience. No idea why the CD was put out with that mastering and sadly it is the version that is now on streaming services.
|
|
|
|
Post by radiantradish on Jul 12, 2020 7:00:56 GMT -5
The title should say revelation, obviously... not sure how to change.
|
|
|
|
Post by zebulan on Jul 12, 2020 7:52:36 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually.
Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by craigslowinski on Jul 12, 2020 8:24:48 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything. Undoubtedly it's the same mix, but a different mastering. Yes, I would've thought the same digital master would've been used to cut the vinyl discs, as that seems to be the standard method these days for cutting vinyl for an album that's also released simultaneously on CD...but apparently an analog master was prepared for the vinyl? The more I think about it, I recall Alan telling me at the time how he and Mark were preparing the master for the vinyl cut...if I'd listened closely enough, I probably would've picked up on the fact that they were doing it analog-ly (if that's a word) - but I was up to my eyes in sessionography work, trying not to fall too far behind schedule, so it probably went in one ear and out the other!  |
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jul 12, 2020 9:05:14 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything. You can't brickwall a vinyl product. |
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jul 12, 2020 17:40:51 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. LOL. radiantradish, never surrender a good pun, intentional or no! |
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jul 12, 2020 17:53:23 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything. Undoubtedly it's the same mix, but a different mastering. Yes, I would've thought the same digital master would've been used to cut the vinyl discs, as that seems to be the standard method these days for cutting vinyl for an album that's also released simultaneously on CD...but apparently an analog master was prepared for the vinyl? The more I think about it, I recall Alan telling me at the time how he and Mark were preparing the master for the vinyl cut...if I'd listened closely enough, I probably would've picked up on the fact that they were doing it analog-ly (if that's a word) - but I was up to my eyes in sessionography work, trying not to fall too far behind schedule, so it probably went in one ear and out the other! Craig's on the right track raising questions about the "source" used to prepare a master (ie, a copy of the final mix). Was it analogue or Digital? And if Digital was it a High Res (24bit/ 88.2khz or above) master? We know from the credits the Digital mastering was done by (the legendary) Bob Ludwig, and I imagine a High Res file would have been prepared at the same time as the CD res (16bit/44.1khz). We know from the pressed artifacts in the vinyl lead out groove that the vinyl was mastered and cut by Don Gossinger at Masterdisk. But, again, was the source a High Res file or from analogue tape? If from tape, and prepared by Mark/Alan, I would imagine they would have used a similar technique to the PS Stereo master - mixed in the digital domain but transferred to tape via a vintage mixing desk (we know Mark has components from Western in his audio arsenal). |
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jul 12, 2020 17:58:07 GMT -5
Haven't heard BWPS on vinyl yet, but Lucky Old Sun is a similar situation. The vinyl rip of that thing sounds so much warmer and more alive. CD by comparison sounds like it exists in a vacuum-packed plastic void with hardly any bass presence. LOS was mastered by an in-house Capitol dude called - Ron McMaster (yes, that is his real name). Ron remastered the last batch of Capitol/UME vinyl reissues (not the Analogue Productions stuff), ie Friends, 20/20, Love You and he confirmed to me directly that his "chain" is all analogue - hence the great sound. He obviously has a real affinity for the BB/BW sound, and maybe a good working relationship with Alan & Mark (guessing). |
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jul 12, 2020 18:00:42 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything. You can use a CD master (ie a CD) to cut vinyl, but it will sound as just like the CD. A lot of grey or cheap reissues are ripped from CD quality masters, and usually sound pretty thin and lifeless (IMO). |
|
|
|
Post by Sam_BFC on Jul 12, 2020 21:19:52 GMT -5
I've been longing to get hold of digital files sourced from the BWPS and TLOS vinyl for a very long time, but never been able to.
I don't have any decent headphones or loudspeakers with me at the moment, but I'd love to access these for when I have a decent system again.
|
|
arnoldfringe
Grommet
Posts: 30
Likes: 21
Favorite Album: SMiLE
|
Post by arnoldfringe on Jul 13, 2020 3:42:08 GMT -5
I have the double vinyl of BWPS. It sounds gorgeous. The thing that really shows off the record is “Mrs O Leary’s Cow”......wow! It ROCKS! Absolutely amazing. There’s only one negative with the vinyl album. Cheaper turntables/Amps/Phono pre amps have a very hard time trying to play the glockenspiels on “Song For Children”. I know this cos I had to use an old record player when my super duper one was being fixed. So, I suppose that’s the fault of the playback equipment therefore there isn’t anything bad about the vinyl!  |
|
|
|
Post by George Faulkner on Jul 16, 2020 8:34:33 GMT -5
Well, I mean, the vinyl does make a revolution... 33⅓ of them every minute, actually. Anyway, it's interesting to know the vinyl is actually mastered differently. I would have thought they would just use the same mix for everything. All vinyl releases should have bespoke mastering, specifically related to avoiding distortion (the cutting head can only be pushed so far) and based on duration of the side/loudness of the tracks. Loudness needs to be adjusted from outer groove to inner, with louder songs earlier on the side, quieter songs further in. Again, to avoid distortion. Vinyl records get worse with the decreasing diameter towards the middle of the record. |
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Jul 17, 2020 9:10:19 GMT -5
Haven't heard BWPS on vinyl yet, but Lucky Old Sun is a similar situation. The vinyl rip of that thing sounds so much warmer and more alive. CD by comparison sounds like it exists in a vacuum-packed plastic void.
I have it the other way around. At least my vinyl copy sounds like absolute garbage (zero EQ on that thing, and the sound diminishes very noticeably as it gets closer to the end of each side), but my CD is bright and brilliant.
|
|
|
|
Post by craigslowinski on Jul 17, 2020 9:33:38 GMT -5
I have the double vinyl of BWPS. It sounds gorgeous. The thing that really shows off the record is “Mrs O Leary’s Cow”......wow! It ROCKS! Absolutely amazing. There’s only one negative with the vinyl album. Cheaper turntables/Amps/Phono pre amps have a very hard time trying to play the glockenspiels on “Song For Children”. I know this cos I had to use an old record player when my super duper one was being fixed. So, I suppose that’s the fault of the playback equipment therefore there isn’t anything bad about the vinyl! Yes, I suspect so...I had a similar problem 41 years ago when L.A. (Light Album) was released...my mid-grade turntable (or perhaps it was the mid-grade speakers) couldn't handle the big synth notes in the middle of "Love Surrounds Me" - they sounded distorted every time, even at lower volumes! |
|
