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Post by Mikie on Feb 21, 2020 23:40:28 GMT -5
One of the mysteries in Beach Boys fandom. After buying and listening to the Beach Boys Holland album in 1973, what a shocker it was to hear a guy with a raspy voice singing on "15 Big Ones" three years later. “Who is that singing and why is he singing like that?” Didn’t take long to figure out it was Brian. There’s been a lot of speculation over the years with differing viewpoints as to why it actually happened. I’ve never come across a definitive answer to this. Did I miss something in one of the books?
I remember when Brad Elliott suggested back in the day that Brian’s singing voice had started to decline (began to get thin) around 1969. I didn't really understand this. But after listening to the duet with Jan Berry, “Don’t You Just Know It” (1970?) there was evidence that the voice was obviously getting weak. His high voice sounded fine, though, on the songs he sang on in 1970 and in 1971. Listening to the California Saga intro in 1972, he still had it, but it sounded weak. Then it slowly deteriorated between 1974 and into 1975. If you listen to the Jim Pewter interview in August, 1974, you hear him wheezing a little bit, but he’s still talking in his high voice. And in “Child of Winter” from that year, he used a different voice (the Wizard) but it was still fairly clear. Then curiously, in 1975, you can hear a transition in his singing voice. It’s evident on the “In The Back Of My Mind” demo. You hear both his trademark singing voice along with an ‘introduction’ to the new one. And despite Landy weening Brian off the cigarettes and coke in 1976, his voice already seemed ravaged, never to be the same again. Presumably, the coke was like shrapnel shredding the sensitive vocal chords. The raspiness in Brian’s voice from the mid-70’s onward was the result from the abuse of hash, coke, cigs, alcohol, and general lack of use. Brian was smoking multiple packs daily while snorting hog rails during this period. Was he chain-smoking on purpose or because of an uncontrollable habit? Other singers smoked like chimneys and could still sing well – Sinatra and Cole immediately come to mind. Carl Wilson was another. Brian told an interviewer in the 70’s that he really liked Randy Newman and wanted to sound like him. Marilyn suggested that Brian did it on purpose because he wanted to “sound more manly”. During 1976 and afterward, I question whether Brian really desired that hoarse, growly singing voice. The group obviously had no choice if they wanted Brian fully involved. But if he really wanted to sound manly, why did he later sing with that older clear, high voice on songs like “Airplane” and “Sherry She Needs Me”? And why did he choose to use his high voice on “Matchpoint Of Our Love” and “Wontcha Come Out Tonight”? The high voice was present in “She’s Got Rhythm”, albeit forced. Also, some instances on Beach Boys Love You, where he sang falsetto on “Night Was So Young”. If he disliked his “unmanly” voice enough to change it intentionally, then why did he keep trying to sing high? One fan saw Brian at a concert rehearsal before a gig in L.A. recently and heard him sing the high part in a Pet Sounds song and said he sounded just like he did in 1966! So I guess if he really wants to, he can still do it. With the understanding that the male voice gets deeper with age and the falsetto gets more difficult to achieve, I think it’s a travesty what happened to Brian’s voice in the mid-70’s. The Beach Boys harmonies, while still good, were never quite the same after Brian’s vocal chords were damaged.
Did Brian inadvertently dip into the condiments too deeply, not knowing what it would do to his voice, or did he do it on purpose to sound more “manly”?
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Feb 22, 2020 0:27:51 GMT -5
Mikie, good question.
There have been a thousand reasons propagated about why Brian chose THAT voice. Some suggest he wanted a manly voice like Dennis. Murray, whole loving Brian's voice, also told him that he was shrill and sounded effeminate.
But, honestly, Brian's falsetto started to degrade by the late 60s / early 1970s. FOREVER comes to mind. Brian's high voice, while still able to scale those octaves, started to sound whiny. I don't know if he did that on purpose, or it was the cocaine that affected his upper respiratory system. That falsetto on FOREVER sounds nothing like the falsetto on Don't Worry Baby or Let Him Run Wild.
Brian started smoking in the mid 60s (they even have him smoking while making SMILE in LOVE AND MERCY). I think that honestly, cigarettes were another vice that Brian had, and voice be damned, he was going to smoke! Remember, besides street drugs, this was the Brian that would guzzle strong coffee down to get that caffeine rush. He would fill a cup almost full with instant coffee, add a little water, then drink it all on one long swallow.
So I think that his voice was just another casualty of his vices. I know when I purchased 15 Big Ones at the age of 17, I was broken hearted by Brian's vocals. I had started listening to the group in 1973, and I couldn't wait for this new LP from my favorite band with Brian back and singing. It was a rude awakening for me. But I grew to love that record at the time because I was young and they had a hit LP out!
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Departed
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 1:46:29 GMT -5
Sinatra was a fool and smoked recklessly and did not take care of his instrument in his later years. He was so often off key and gave very poor performances in his later years. If he had taken care of himself it would have had a noble and wonderful ending.
Brian Wilson sounded darn good in 2012 and sounds really really pretty on surfer girl on that Rolling Stones Video of an unplugged version. I guess he started to take care of himself for a while and now hes gotten older and has lost some of his greatness that he had restored for that magical tour which is not likely to happen again.
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Post by Autotune on Feb 22, 2020 5:59:28 GMT -5
Nowadays I think that the changes and ups and downs of Brian’s voice, at least during the time when he was a young man, had to do with his mental issues and overall emotionality. The human voice is inextricably linked to the person’s many moods, personality and all sorts of factors, and thus those changes make sense. It is also linked to physical aspects like age, health, etc.
Brian’s voice has been an ever-changing instrument since the beginning of his career. In a way, it is as if he was always searching for his own voice. The voice that sings Barbie doesn’t sound very much alike the voice that sings Don’t Worry Baby. The vocals on Wouldn’t It Be Nice could come from a different voice than those of Blue Christmas. It takes time to know that the voice on She Knows Me Too Well comes from the same guy that sings I’d Love Just Once to See You- or Here Comes The Night.
In his more reclusive time after the hospitalization up until the mid 70s, it’s as if he became more and more unstable and insecure about hist voice. His voice became like a ghost; it appeared briefly and seemed like he didn’t quite know what to do with it. He sang shorter and shorter vocals, I mean, how many GREAT (or long) BW vocals are there in the period 1969-1975? When he sings a longer vocal (i.e. the unreleased ITBOMM) it almost seems like he’s not being himself— like he is impersonating somebody (btw, I think a lot of his singing “styles” of the past were born as impersonations).
He didn’t return to full-blown lead vocal performances until he developed a sound that was unlike anything he ever sounded before, and sounded more like... Randy Newman.
We could go on and on...
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Post by jds on Feb 22, 2020 11:03:46 GMT -5
I think his weird late-80s to mid-90s voice and the sudden transition to "modern Brian" around the time of the Endless Harmony doc is almost as interesting. Probably the biggest evidence in favor of the notion that he had a stroke at some point, though for whatever reason his camp seems to be especially offended by that suggestion.
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Post by Mikie on Feb 22, 2020 11:14:10 GMT -5
Nowadays I think that the changes and ups and downs of Brian’s voice, at least during the time when he was a young man, had to do with his mental issues and overall emotionality. Brian’s voice has been an ever-changing instrument since the beginning of his career. In his more reclusive time after the hospitalization up until the mid 70s, it’s as if he became more and more unstable and insecure about hist voice. His voice became like a ghost; it appeared briefly and seemed like he didn’t quite know what to do with it. I agree with these points. I thought about but didn't include the factor about the voice change being related to his mental issues because I wasn't quite sure. That might be common sense to many. I do think the change was long-term. Controllable I guess depending on his moods and emotions, but most definitely uncontrollable during the drastic change in the mid-70's. He even took some voice lessons to help him. I use to imagine what some of those Brian leads would have sounded like if he'd had his original voice back - "Sherry She Needs Me", "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" and others. I remember hearing "Getcha Back" for the first time in 1985 and thinking, "Yeah, Brian's voice is back!" but found out later they used the same tape loop with his high voice over and over. The vintage BW sounded great anyway on that one. |
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Post by zebulan on Feb 22, 2020 11:46:44 GMT -5
I remember hearing "Getcha Back" for the first time in 1985 and thinking, "Yeah, Brian's voice is back!" but found out later they used the same tape loop with his high voice over and over. The vintage BW sounded great anyway anyway on that one. Wow, I had no idea they used essentially a sample of Brian's voice for that song. That was pretty clever. I never would have noticed if you didn't point it out. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:37:31 GMT -5
There have been stretches where it sounded like Brian had issues with shortness of breath.
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Post by Mikie on Feb 22, 2020 12:49:34 GMT -5
There have been stretches where it sounded like Brian had issues with shortness of breath. Yeah, many times he's sung in a staccato kind of voice, which is a little irritating. |
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Post by Mikie on Feb 22, 2020 13:09:52 GMT -5
The 1975-77 gruff sound happened specifically because of laryngitis, which he reacted to by continuing to smoke and sing to exaggerate the effect rather than let his voice heal. MIU is probably what Brian would've sounded like post-deepening in the long term if he hadn't declined again. I've heard/read this before and it would surprise the hell out of me if he really had laryngitis for that long. I know cigs can exacerbate the problem, but most of us have laryngitis for a very short period of time - like a week and it's gone on its own. It can last longer if it's caused by a viral infection or excessive voice use, but antibiotics can usually kill it fairly quickly. I just have a hard time with the thought of laryngitis lasting 2-3 years. |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 22, 2020 13:40:31 GMT -5
I doubt that it was cigarettes, alone. I know a lot of people who smoke/smoked (myself included) that they did not damage the vocal chords to that extent. Dennis’ voice went through similar changes during the early to mid-70s, as well. I wonder if there were a bit of genetics involved?
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Post by Mikie on Feb 22, 2020 13:47:28 GMT -5
Yeah, Murry had a little bit of a raspy voice, didn't he? Dennis sounded like him a little bit.
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Post by AGD on Feb 22, 2020 18:11:35 GMT -5
The 1975-77 gruff sound happened specifically because of laryngitis, which he reacted to by continuing to smoke and sing to exaggerate the effect rather than let his voice heal. MIU is probably what Brian would've sounded like post-deepening in the long term if he hadn't declined again. Source for this statement, please ? |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Feb 22, 2020 18:56:09 GMT -5
I remember hearing "Getcha Back" for the first time in 1985 and thinking, "Yeah, Brian's voice is back!" but found out later they used the same tape loop with his high voice over and over. The vintage BW sounded great anyway anyway on that one. Wow, I had no idea they used essentially a sample of Brian's voice for that song. That was pretty clever. I never would have noticed if you didn't point it out. Brian just overdubbed his voice to give it some punch. I think it was like 8 times overdub. |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Feb 22, 2020 19:00:18 GMT -5
Your voice, depending on what you do, can be damaged. One girl I went to high school with had a BEAUTIFUL singing voice. Just so pure. Then senior year came around and guess what? She was head cheerleader as well. The constant shouting at games etc ruined her voice. When football season was over, she tried to rest her voice. It never came back. Just a hoarse sounding singing voice. Saw her ten years on at a reunion, and her speaking voice was raspy sounding. So sad. She said she had vocal chord damage.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Feb 22, 2020 19:04:52 GMT -5
Hit this puppy at about 39:30. That will spoil your dinner. I remember I had tears in my eyes when I heard this live in 1981. SO SAD!!!!
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Feb 22, 2020 19:44:48 GMT -5
Did a quick search online and found a forum about singers/voice artists. Someone asked what coke can do the voice and a doctor posted back the following:
How would cocaine affect a singer/professional voice user?
A professional voice user is at high risk for voice problems if cocaine is used. There is a risk of:
Septal perforation causing nasal cosmetic deformity (saddle nose, etc)
Chronic laryngitis
Permanent hoarseness
Asthma/reactive airway (preventing good breath support)
Chronic cough (producing laryngitis)
Loss of vocal range (due to vocal scarring)
Voice fatigue
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Post by Mikie on Feb 22, 2020 20:58:49 GMT -5
Hit this puppy at about 39:30. That will spoil your dinner. I remember I had tears in my eyes when I heard this live in 1981. SO SAD!!!!
This thing was on national live TV. Brian's performance of "Don't Worry Baby" was an all-time low in Beach Boys concert history. Only thing that rivaled this was Carl's performance of God Only Knows and Good Vibrations in Australia in 1978. Man, did they miss Carl! |
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 23, 2020 0:16:04 GMT -5
Hit this puppy at about 39:30. That will spoil your dinner. I remember I had tears in my eyes when I heard this live in 1981. SO SAD!!!!
He struggles on the first two verses, but then he murders the third. And this happened show after show - I've got a cassette of one show earlier in the year, Carl had just left the tour - and Brian sings it the same way there. |
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Post by AGD on Feb 23, 2020 1:12:23 GMT -5
Source for this statement, please ? Brian's book. Which one ? |
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Post by Hydra on Feb 23, 2020 1:21:32 GMT -5
I've always split Brian voice into stages 1962-1964 - Early Stage, very pure beautiful falcetto 1965-1968 - from Summer Days to Friends he pretty much sounds the same, voice has matured a bit 1969-1973 - voice has started to deteriorate but still good. 1974-1976 - Realy raspy can struggle to hit the high notes. 1977-1978 - From pretty much the MIU album and the Lokin' Down The Coast outtake from the LA sessions his voice has improved again. 1979-1982 - Really raspy again and really deteriorating
1983-1990 - that solo album era voice, we all know the one 1991-1997 - heard a lot during the paley sessions, his voice has changed again 1998-present has not changed much since Imagination, just has aged a bit.
May be more, but I think that's the general gist of it
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Post by E on Feb 23, 2020 5:53:44 GMT -5
There have been stretches where it sounded like Brian had issues with shortness of breath. Certainly seems to be the case now, as if his lungs no longer have the capacity they did. |
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Post by Autotune on Feb 23, 2020 7:42:53 GMT -5
Hit this puppy at about 39:30. That will spoil your dinner. I remember I had tears in my eyes when I heard this live in 1981. SO SAD!!!!
He struggles on the first two verses, but then he murders the third. And this happened show after show - I've got a cassette of one show earlier in the year, Carl had just left the tour - and Brian sings it the same way there. You know, I was just thinking of maybe this was a one-off thing, which would have made more sense. |
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Post by Vale on Feb 23, 2020 9:14:19 GMT -5
This is one of the most curious things about the group. There are many BW voices but there are also many BW body/face changes, surely drugs and alcohol did their part in these changes. Besides all, I believe that his voices reflects perfectly the times the Beach Boys were facing; to be honest I like all the shades of his voice, from the early 60s to No Pier Pressure. From 68/69 to 88 it was a consequence of a phisical decay (because of drug abuse etc.). Then his voice has remained stable, certainly going gradually to become more "subtle" because of natural aging.
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Post by sneakypete77 on Feb 23, 2020 12:20:19 GMT -5
Ignoring his studio recorded vocals, which can be tweaked and sweetened, Brian has often professed his fondness for touring , but rarely admitted that he actually enjoys performing live. Nerves, stage fright, call it what you like, must have a serious effect on a singer’s voice, constricting vocal cords and degrading their ability to deliver perfect pitch. More noticeable as age has crept up on him, but even in the band’s early days; how else can you explain this, at 0.52 into the song?
Interestingly, more than one member of his touring band has told me on several occasions that when they are rehearsing, no audience and no cameras present, Brian can deliver the goods as sweetly as he ever did.
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