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Post by filledeplage on May 13, 2019 8:37:35 GMT -5
100% agree with dogbone-everyone, not just Marilyn, was at pains to downplay Brian’s problems. For one more thing-business demanded it. Whether he was ill or well-Brian had to show up at the 1970 Warner’s signing and promise to be an active part of future records. In 1970 the BBs meant Brian or no contract. I think cbs also had hopes that he’d be active and the BBs fed those hopes . And what else could they do? I mean are they going to tell a record exec-well actually the man in the band recognized universally as a genius will at best only play a cameo role in future albums but al has written a nifty tune? Brian being seen as an active bb even if he wasn’t was very important to the BBs into the 1980s. With interviews, and all these different points-of-view, there are "filters" through which the interviewee (Carl or anyone else) will respond. Yes, first, a protective family filter, to protect your sibling (spouse); you never want to disclose incriminating or hurtful information about that person that could hurt them personally or professionally. Second, maybe a business filter, to protect the integrity of the product. There could have been some no-go zones as well. We don't know but these interviews were insightful. And, appreciated. When I read all of this, sure there is/was family and business input, but ultimately what was really known, even at a prestigious UCLA facility about what was really going on? I would argue precious little. IIRC in the early 70's the new wonder drug was Prozac and given out like candy, with little attention paid to what, if any, after after effects might result. Big Pharma made money. Even now, the medical industry professionals are just doing brain-region mapping, where an addict (if addiction or depression or something else) is the problem and the doctor can now see and quantify damage done to "opiate" (or other) receptors. It was not as though he had not been treated or that no one tried. By the 90's and into the turn of this century, damage in a brain region could be quantified, at its early development, so it is not just a matter of a person having no will power and blaming that person for either bad habits or having no resolve. Or blaming the family for not doing enough. That kind of treatment for dual (or multi) diagnosis did not exist. Addicts (of any kind - drugs or alcohol) were not considered worthy of the financial investment into research we see today. They did not matter enough. And they had a disease that many considered self-inflicted. It was not as sexy as needing a heart or kidney transplant. Plenty of research money for that. It is helping to take the stigma out of addiction, and other behavioral health issues, when you can print out a brain scan that shows a damaged region in the same way an X-ray shows a broken bone. You are not imagining things. The scan can be a lifesaver for diagnosis and treatment. These were good and pretty candid interviews. I think that Carl (and Dennis with Peter Fornatale) have done the best refutations of all the overspun propaganda that put Brian (and the band) in a poor light. (I think the Gaumont Palace one is excellent as well.) And, if Brian was listening from upstairs and sending "corrections" downstairs, he was still engaged in the creative process. His "listening booth" was just moved elsewhere. Sounds like supervision to me. And these band members were 20-somethings who may have been music professionals, but certainly not qualified to opine about someone else's health. All we can say is "Thank God, Brian made it," and he is giving back to others by raising the public profile of research need, and helping to reduce the stigma attached. "Will-son" as I have heard Brian say - having the "will" to keep going.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 13, 2019 14:09:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all comments in this topic (and subtopics). Really nice to read about your insights and opinions. I'm planning to share more info about the Beach Boys during their stay in The Netherlands and the making of Holland. But I also have some articles and pictures from early 1972, when they're stay in The Netherlands was still in the planning stage. And there's some other relevant stuff from after their stay here (including Carl's visit in March 1973).
To start with The Grand Gala Du Disque Populaire from February 25th 1972. GGDD was an anual musical event on Dutch TV (with millions of viewers) in which the Dutch equivalent of the Grammy's - the Edison Awards - were awarded. The Beach Boys were one of the guests that evening. The setlist contained 4 songs: Heroes And Villains, Sloop John B., Surf's Up, and Student Demonstration Time. You might wonder why the last one was part of the setlist. Believe it or not: it was a minor hit here, reaching #21 in the Dutch Top 40 Charts.
Unfortunately the video of this performance seems to be gone. But an audiorecording circulates, including the intro by the host of the evening. And there's lots of pictures from that day. Some well known, others not that much.
Audio recording GGDD (starts at 4:39. First part is a Dutch radio broadcast from VPRO Radio, probably also recorded at around Feb. 24th/25th):
Photo session outside the RAI Congresscenter in Amsterdam (probably Feb 24th):
Bruce entering the RAI building earlier that day (probably Feb. 24th):
During the GGDD performance:
Earlier that day, during the rehearsals:
There has been discussion if Ricky and Blondie were already part of the line-up the group. Officially not, but it should be noted that on the audiorecording during the outtro it is mentioned that 2 members of the group Flame were part of the line-up that evening. The pictures definitely proove that Ricky was there. Blondie though ... on the rehearsal-picture above the guy next to Ricky looks like him, but somehow I'm not sure. On the first picture of the GGDD performance there's a guy with an afro standing behind Al - could be Blondie. Also there's Billy behind the grand piano. But who is the guy behind the Hammond organ?
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 13, 2019 14:21:42 GMT -5
And to end these GGDD posts, here's an article from the Dutch popmagazine POPFOTO from May 1972 (and I have to thank Ian again for sending me scans). With yet another pic from that performance. Some interesting “new” songs are mentioned. And also another mention of Ricky and Blondie both being part of GGDD line-up.
Popfoto – May 1972 The Beach Boys are coming !
While we’re writing this on paper, the weather is really very good. Typical weather to write about the Beach Boys. Their music is sunny, beautiful and relaxing, but also the sphere that surrounds the group, breaths warmth and romance. Of course we didn’t start [writing] this because of that, because lately the “beach boys” get quite a lot of attention. They were in The Netherlands, for the occasion of the Grand Gala Du Disque, late February this year. During the months March and April the group would do a tour through America, after which they would return to Europe. Now, in May, the group will do a few concerts, and we’re really itching of craving to witness this. The Beach Boys let us know that the show, the act, the complete musical happening they normally give, has changed a bit. A few new songs and a new line-up are the cause of this. The boys don’t fancy the idea to perform the old material for many a long day. When we got this information from the Boys, Bruce Johnston was working on a new song. It’s title is “10 Years Harmony” and give a shortened survey of the musical highlights of the Beach Boys’ career. Brian Wilson, from who’s creative brain most songs evolve, also wrote a new song, titled “Marsella”. Very probably “Marsella” will become the next American single. Carl is also busy with something new. That song is supposed to be called “Beatrice From Baltimore”, but Carl thought it was too early to give more information about it. We also heard that the boys are busy making yet anóther album. To get back on the line-up: during the Grand Gala Du Disque we noticed a few strangers in the group. Well, strangers… Last year when the Beach Boys visited our country for a few performances, the group The Flame were the supporting act. That formation was a discovery of the Beach Boys. The Flame split up, and after that Ricky and Blondie, respectively the drummer and a guitarist of the group, toured with the Beach Boys. When Dennis injured his hand, and therefore wasn’t able to hold a drum stick, Ricky replaced him. Ricky and Blondie’s efforts didn’t have much influence on the sound. Maybe that the sound as a whole has become a bit more powerful. It’s a pleasure that we can enjoy this top-formation “live” again this month.
From left to right Bruce Johnston, Dennis and Carl Wilson, Al Jardine and Mike Love.
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Post by craigslowinski on May 13, 2019 18:27:16 GMT -5
<<There has been discussion if Ricky and Blondie were already part of the line-up the group. Officially not, but it should be noted that on the audiorecording during the outtro it is mentioned that 2 members of the group Flame were part of the line-up that evening. The pictures definitely proove that Ricky was there. Blondie though ... on the rehearsal-picture above the guy next to Ricky looks like him, but somehow I'm not sure. On the first picture of the GGDD performance there's a guy with an afro standing behind Al - could be Blondie. Also there's Billy behind the grand piano. But who is the guy behind the Hammond organ? >>
The guy with the afro is definitely Blondie, and he and Ricky both officially became Beach Boys at this time. Jack cabled Blondie in South Africa and invited him to become a Beach Boy and join the others in Holland for these TV tapings. Not sure who the extra tambourine player standing behind the Hammond is, though.
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Post by Mikie on May 13, 2019 20:18:33 GMT -5
The guy with the afro is definitely Blondie, and he and Ricky both officially became Beach Boys at this time. Jack cabled Blondie in South Africa and invited him to become a Beach Boy and join the others in Holland for these TV tapings. Not sure who the extra tambourine player standing behind the Hammond is, though. Yep! That's Blondie in the upper right corner playing tambourine, just like he does these days when not on guitar. Dennis on the Hammond and up front on the mic. Blondie was around until December, 1973 and Rickey Fall, 1974. I have Daryl Dragon down for keys most of 1972, and it's not Billy Hinsche, so unless that's Carli Munoz before his 'fro, then it's gotta be a hired hand for the show.
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Post by craigslowinski on May 13, 2019 21:41:39 GMT -5
The guy with the afro is definitely Blondie, and he and Ricky both officially became Beach Boys at this time. Jack cabled Blondie in South Africa and invited him to become a Beach Boy and join the others in Holland for these TV tapings. Not sure who the extra tambourine player standing behind the Hammond is, though. Yep! That's Blondie in the upper right corner playing tambourine, just like he does these days when not on guitar. Dennis on the Hammond and up front on the mic. Blondie was around until December, 1973 and Rickey Fall, 1974. I have Daryl Dragon down for keys most of 1972, and it's not Billy Hinsche, so unless that's Carli Munoz before his 'fro, then it's gotta be a hired hand for the show. Actually, I think it IS Billy...someone posted a couple of other shots from Gran Gala awhile back, where you can see him better. Billy had toured with them the previous fall (playing tambourine and glockenspiel, and maybe guitar on one song). The following summer, they toured Europe with both Billy and Daryl on keys; when they returned to the States, Billy played bass. Incidentally, in one of those other shots from the earlier post, Blondie is up front playing guitar.
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Post by Mikie on May 13, 2019 22:18:07 GMT -5
In the first picture, I thought there was the possibility of the guy on the left being Billy. But after I looked at the second picture and the side shot of the guy, I thought, nah, it couldn't be him. And Elmo Peeler played keys on the road later, so it can't be him. But it does look a little like Peeler in the first picture!
And is that somebody that I see behind the piano on the far right? Maybe that's Hinsche or Dragon. I don't see Toni anywhere.
Not sure, C-man.
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Post by Emdeeh on May 13, 2019 22:23:25 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's not Billy (on the left) -- the facial features don't look like his.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 2:35:49 GMT -5
The guy with the afro is definitely Blondie, and he and Ricky both officially became Beach Boys at this time. Jack cabled Blondie in South Africa and invited him to become a Beach Boy and join the others in Holland for these TV tapings. Not sure who the extra tambourine player standing behind the Hammond is, though. Yep! That's Blondie in the upper right corner playing tambourine, just like he does these days when not on guitar. Dennis on the Hammond and up front on the mic. Blondie was around until December, 1973 and Rickey Fall, 1974. I have Daryl Dragon down for keys most of 1972, and it's not Billy Hinsche, so unless that's Carli Munoz before his 'fro, then it's gotta be a hired hand for the show. Mikie, I'm pretty sure it IS Billy. He confirmed it himself on a FB page a couple of months ago. I'll post a few pictures from the BB performance a day earlier (Feb. 24th) on Dutch television. Again the same guy behind the piano; his face isn't visible, but I'm quite sure it's Billy. Something he confirmed.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 2:57:24 GMT -5
Ah, here it is. It was on Billy's own FB page. Posted on January 2019. You can look it up, but here's some snaphots from that post (and the responses). Billy didn't know the whereabouts of this picture. When I responded telling him that the picture he posted was from February 24th, he confirmed he was there. I assume for both the 24th and 25th. Carly Munoz was kind enough to respond as well and confirm it wasn't him, but Billy. Btw, we still don't know who the guy behind the Hammond organ is. Craig suggested it might be Charles Lloys, but he certainly doesn't look like Charles.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 2:59:07 GMT -5
And here's definite proof that Blondie was performing on stage with the BB at the GGDD.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 3:40:46 GMT -5
Now about that BB performance on Dutch TV on February 24 1972 on Toppop. Keith Badman’s book mentions that they did a lip synch performance of Marcella with Ricky (Blondie – as mentioned by Badman – wasn’t featured in that performance), and that the recording was broadcasted on May 2nd. There’s more than just that one picture in Badman’s book with Carl, Dennis, Al, Bruce and Mike (which shows them just before the performance). So it’s pretty save to assume a performance for Dutch TV took place on the 24th. But there was some doubt on whether they indeed performed Marcella. According to AGD’s site there were recording sessions for Marcella on Dec. 71 and Feb 17th 72. So it was possible to lip synch a fresly recorded finished version of Marcella on Feb 24th. It is surprising though that it was already considered as a single then. The Popfoto article from May 1972 (page 4 of this topic) though also mentions this song being their next single, so perhaps that was the initial idea.
So we have ‘proof’ that the BB did a performances for Dutch TV on Feb. 24th. Pictures of that performance exist. But was it broadcasted in May 1972 and was it Marcella they lip synched? Until now I pretty much assumed that the video was lost or destroyed, like much more material from that era, and so these questions would remain unanswered.
But… I recently spoke with a Dutch media consultant, who’s also doing some research on the Beach Boys stay in The Netherlands. He told me that the TopPop archives were still intact and being searched through, and there’s a reasonable chance that the Marcella performance is still in the vaults somewhere. I sure hope it will be found. It would be quite interesting to see this video at last to say the least…
If Badman is correct on the activities on the 24th, it would also mean that the photo session taken of the group was from the 24th, a day before the GGDD performance.
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Post by AGD on May 14, 2019 4:07:22 GMT -5
To my best knowledge, "Marcella" was never formerly anything other than "Marcella".
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 4:52:36 GMT -5
To my best knowledge, "Marcella" was never formerly anything other than "Marcella".
Are you referring to Badman's remark that it was formerly titled "One Arm Over My Shoulder"?
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Post by AGD on May 14, 2019 5:34:39 GMT -5
Yup.
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Post by craigslowinski on May 14, 2019 6:35:44 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's not Billy -- the facial features don't look like his. Emdeeh, I'm talking about the guy on the far right, at the piano. Can't see his face, but his hair is Billy's.
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Post by Emdeeh on May 14, 2019 8:38:43 GMT -5
Craig, I realized in retrospect we were talking about two different people and have edited my post to reflect that. Thanks for the clarification.
This is a great thread, y'all. I'm really enjoying all the articles, pix, and research on the Holland venture.
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Post by Mikie on May 14, 2019 9:27:10 GMT -5
So just for clarification, who's the guy on the far left and who's the other guy on the far right in both pictures?
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 14, 2019 9:39:30 GMT -5
So just for clarification, who's the guy on the far left and who's the other guy on the far right in both pictures? Far left: still no idea Far right: Billy (behind the piano)
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Post by Mikie on May 14, 2019 10:17:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I think a few of us were talking about different guys in the pictures and it got confused. I was always talking about the guy on the far left, then I noticed the guy on the far right and asked about him. As long as we agree we don't know who the guy on the left is!
Great research, Smile-Holland!
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 14, 2019 10:46:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I think a few of us were talking about different guys in the pictures and it got confused. I was always talking about the guy on the far left, then I noticed the guy on the far right and asked about him. As long as we agree we don't know who the guy on the left is!
Great research, Smile-Holland! Indeed! This has been a great thread.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 17, 2019 7:59:31 GMT -5
Another article from the Dutch newspaper Telegraaf, an interview with Carl Wilson. Nothing new really...
Telegraaf June 17th 1972The Beach Boys during their performance in the Concertgebouw (Concertbuilding) in 1971 [Dec. 18th 1970, red]American top of popmusic lives here The Beach Boys think The Netherlands is (a) tolerant (country)By Berry Zandscholten AMSTERDAM, on a Saturday. The Beach Boys, one of the already legendary American popgroups from the very beginning, settled down in The Netherlands. “This is such a good country, so peaceful and relaxed, that we have decided to live and work here for the time being, the Beach Boys tell us. “It’s beautiful overhere, and we all feel excellent. We’ll start working on our “Dutch” album next week!” The Beach Boys in The Netherlands… with all their equipment, the recorders, complete studio outfit, and their following that comes along with a world class popgroup. Everywhere in the Randstad [the city area between (roughly) Amsterdam, The Hague/Rotterdam and Utrecht] they settled down. The mysterious Brian Wilson [lives] in an ample villa in Hilversum; the others in Bloemendaal, Haarlem, Heemstede, and Vreeland. Only Dennis Wilson doesn’t live in our country. He preferred the warmth of the Canary Islands above our climate. The wildest rumours are heard after Wilson bothers and the other Beach Boys settled down [here]. They would have fled the U.S. because of a huge tax debt; they supposedly wanted to try out Europe, now that they can’t establish any success in the States anymore; mentally the group would be totally destroyed, especially Brian… Carl Wilson, the blond-bearded, blue-eyed, coolly Beach Boy, sighs resignedly. “There’s so much talk and gossip. We get sick of it. If I start now by ensuring you that A. we don’t have a millions dollars of debt to the American tax authorities; B. we’re not totally crazy; C. we didn’t flee the country for whatever reason and; D. that we just wanted to work in a joyous and quiet environment, would you write that down?” We agree by nodding, upon which Carl remarks resignedly: “Then you’d be the first to acknowledge that.” He continues: “Brian really never gives any interviews at all anymore. One and a half year ago he once spoke openly with a reporter of Rolling Stone. That’s a magazine of one would expect that they are serious and correct. But we never sow so many twists and suspicions in an article as that particular one from Rolling Stone.” Carl Wilson lives in Hilversum. The window of his living room looks out on a quiet lane, birds whistle and a cat does acrobatic tours an a fence made of two trunks. “This country is awesome”, Carl Wilson says, “The people are tolerant, friendly, you just sense it’s okay here. In the U.S. everything life is filled with tension and violence. You know, even the bees are less aggressive here. That the Beach Boys haven’t run out of steam yet proves their new album “Carl And The Passions”, from which the single “You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone” already climbs in the charts. In contrary to small [Dutch] movements/groups that always have something to complain about and rail at anything we do or don’t in our country, the foreigners seem to like it here. Last year the Byrds couldn’t be teared away [from the Netherlands]; the Beach Boys have planned on staying at least the whole summer and probably longer. A studio is being searched and next week their studio equipment is being arranged for the first recordings. The Beach Boys now consist of 10 men. After pianist Bruce Johnston’s departure, the group was extended with a horn section, and with drummer Ricky Fataar, who replaces Dennis Wilson on percussion. Blondie Chaplin is instrumental and because of his high voice also vocally a welcome reinforcement. The old guard of course is still formed by Carl Wilson, brother Dennis, Mike Love, Alan Jardine, and – always staying in the background – Brian Wilson. The Beach Boys are legendary already. In the summer of 1963 they scored their first world wide hit “Surfin’ U.S.A.. After that they were the American answer to the British pop invasion, especially the Beatles. Their album “Pet Sounds” is of the same class as for example the Beatles’ “Sgt. Pepper”, the only difference being that “Pet Sounds” was released a year earlier. The Californian beachcombers scored one hit after the other on the world’s hit lists. “Good Vibrations”, “I Can Hear Music”, “Cotton Fields”, “Sloop John B”, “California Girls”, “God Only Knows”, “Bluebirds Over The Mountains”, “Heroes And Villains”… In all these years the Beach Boys have maintained to stay a musical unity. Their compositions are so brilliant, their close harmony so perfect, that of course this brought up frustrations; both from the boys themselves – for a long while Brian Wilson was desperate because he thought he wouldn’t be able to write something better than “Good Vibrations” – as from their audience. Part of the pop consumers thought the Beach Boys were a couple of lame guys with only a bit of “commitment [social awareness]”. Last year when their album “Surf’s Up” was released, on which the Beach Boys also turned against water pollution (Don’t Go Near The Water) and violence on American Universities (Student Demonstration Time) one would constantly hear “now they also have to say something”!?”. “One can never do things completely right”, Carl Wilson softly says. “We’ve always felt committed to our society, but the question is if you always have to incorporate that in your work. Our last album really wasn’t a “commercial stunt” from us. At that moment we just felt that we had to so something, and what’s against that?”. Carl Wilson is seen now as the general leader of the Beach Boys, but the group itself doesn’t think in leadership. The genius behind the screens still is Brian, on which the wildest rumours are heard. He would be totally paranoia, continuously destroying his own tapes, set studio’s on fire, etcetera. Carl Wilson on his brother: “It’s all complete nonsense. Brian can be typical, but he’s completely normal. What one person sees as “far out”, is normal for another. Brian is highly disappointed in all that slander, and he’s not the person to fight against those lies at all cost!”. There seems to be a code of honour among the Beach Boys to talk as less about Brian as possible, because “it will come across incorrectly again anyway”. Carl also is reluctant to talk about this topic. Apparently he wants to wait and see what a Dutch reporter makes of an interview. Talking with a Beach Boy is a relaxed chitchat about music. It doesn’t come to strong positions on political issues, on war, on racial strives… Carl Wilson only gets really enthusiastic when the topic is The Netherlands. For the rest one just has to see the Beach Boys as brilliant musicians, and nothing else. They don’t want anything else. With a roughly estimated 30 million sold singles and hundred thousands of albums they of course have contributed a pretty well contribution to all big world events. To some perhaps a bit too little to Vietnam, to others too little on racial segregation or air poisoning. Fact remains that the Beach Boys just make good music that, according to themselves, doesn't need to be "filled with social awareness".
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Post by filledeplage on May 17, 2019 8:56:24 GMT -5
Thank you, SMiLE-Holland!
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Post by Will/P.P. on May 17, 2019 9:20:02 GMT -5
Of course. Walter Yetnikoff, President of CBS Records, summoned the Beach Boys, four years late with their new album, to his office for what they believed would be a pep talk. In fact, he opened with the words, "Gentlemen, I think I've been fucked". So much for insisting that Brian Wilson be on board.... Can't help wondering if he was hoping to hear something akin to Today.
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Post by Cam Mott on May 17, 2019 11:10:29 GMT -5
Outstanding S-H.
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