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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 10, 2019 10:32:42 GMT -5
I can do that. But it’s incomplete, because it isn’t folded out on the right and below.
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Post by Mikie on May 10, 2019 10:49:58 GMT -5
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Post by leedempsey on May 10, 2019 11:06:39 GMT -5
I forgot about your list Mikie. You can add these two guitars — although they may just have been provided for the photo shoot. Those Lucite-bodied guitars are prohibitively heavy and not practical for gigging. Looks like you already have Al’s Telecaster and Bruce’s Fender Rhodes electric piano, so all good there. Lee
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Post by Mikie on May 10, 2019 11:59:14 GMT -5
The list surely isn't comprehensive, Lee. There's some holes to fill. I'll add these two guitars to the list though - thanks!
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 10, 2019 15:35:05 GMT -5
Anyone have a translation of the newspaper interview with Marilyn? Shame it's not folded out, looks like they're talking about the Spring album in the next part with a mention of Sweet Mountain. Here it is. That is, what is visible. Nothing shocking mentioned. It looks like the interesting parts have to be folded out...
Article Telegraaf mid 1972
Wife of the “mysterious Beach Boy” BRIAN WILSON, is happy here
To us it feels like we’re in paradise
by Jip Golsteijn
“We worked on this record for 2 ½ months. And that’s not a lot for a housewife. Imagine this: I brought the children to bed at around 8 o’clock PM and only then I started recording. That often went on until 3 AM at night. [And] we had to end it [recording] when the group came back from their European tour.
1st column
Brian was able to convince the other Beach Boys that they had to wait with the recording of the “Surf’s Up”-album until he had finished the mix of my album. They understood that, although they were impatient about it. I’m a #1 Beach Boys Fan now, haha !”
Marilyn Wilson is a happy person. If she knew only so little of the kind of Western Germany that The Netherlands was to her 3 months ago, now she’s glad she accepted the offer of her brother-in-law Carl, who convinced her to go live in The Netherlands as well, where the Beach Boys wanted to subside and acquire new ideas fort he making of a [new] album.
* Lovely
Marilyn: “When the first surprises [of being here] wear off we’ll probably get to know the negative aspects of The Netherlands, but for now it feels to us like we’re in paradise … <…>
2nd column
… rings twice. I love that”. Marilyn is a lovely person. Open, amiable, sweet, almost naïve. She outright admits that. “We found each other, Brian and I. We’re both very shy and naïve. Just like the other Beach Boys. But that’s what makes them so special in the pop business. I always start trusting someone completely. Later on I often have to solve it, but apparently I don’t learn from it.”
It probably totally escaped Marilyn that most of the Dutch press wants to talk with her aoubt the American Spring album, hoping to get some news on her famous husband: Brian Wilson, the genius behind the Beach Boys, from who in the 10 years that the group takes part in the top of the music business, the number of interviews can easily be counted on the fingers of a lumberjack’s hand. Marilyn, very vulnerable in her sincerity, protects Brian as much as she can, against the outside world, of which he [or she] undertands very little. <…>
3rd column
“… ask Jack Rieley if he hadn’t said too much. And he actually hadn’t said a thing at all, you know.”
Brian Wilson and Marilyn Rovell (that’s her maiden name) met each other by a special coincidence. Marilyn went out with her sister Diane in a Californian club where at the time the locally well known Beach Boys were performing. Marilyn was staring with admiration to the stage, especially to Brian Wilson, but she was too shy to approach the superstar. He had seen her as well, but also didn’t really have the guts either, so he just went to ask her if he could have a sip of her chocolate milk. She said yes, but that sip didn’t end up in Brian’s stomach, but on Marilyn’s new dress. A couple of years later they married.
* Voice
Marilyn: “The first that he noticed of me was my voice. I never really understood why, but it did give me the courage to start singing myself. With my sisters Diane and Barbara we formed the Rovell Sisters, but we didn’t make a lot of success, although Brian did everything in his powers to give us good material [to sing]. I think the competition was too strong, and our courage too small.
Marilyn Wilson’s voice is indeed something special. When she sings she reminds you of the leadsinger of the 50ies group The Shirelles, but also a bit of Doris Day. A part of… <…>
4th column <…> [Can’t make anything of it. Apparently there’s some comment on Tennessee Waltz and Sweet Mountain.]
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 11, 2019 8:25:11 GMT -5
Here's a short interview with Mike Love on Dutch TV Show Countdown, about their new album (L.A.), the new single Good Timin', the Holland album, and their stay in The Netherlands.
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Post by E on May 11, 2019 8:28:20 GMT -5
"To compensate this loss Wilson would have stimulated his wife and sister-in-law."
I'd heard something like that...
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Post by John Manning on May 11, 2019 8:55:01 GMT -5
Wish I had something to contribute to this thread but would like to say a big big “thanks” to those contributing such fascinating and informative detail. Great thread.
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Post by Cam Mott on May 11, 2019 18:12:02 GMT -5
It's probably a bit of spin but on the other hand maybe things weren't the way or as bad as we have thought they were.
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Post by AGD on May 12, 2019 3:11:34 GMT -5
Smile-Holland, thank you for the articles and for translating them! It was perpetuated for many years that Brian produced the Spring album pretty much in it's entirety. This was dispelled a few years ago when Steve Desper (and Marilyn herself) indicated that David Sandler was much more involved with the album, especially production wise, than Brian was. Dispelled in 1985.
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 12, 2019 4:14:01 GMT -5
You're all welcome!
Another article from that same OOR Magazine, July 1972. This time an interview with Carl Wilson at his home in Hilversum. Again hastily translated (10y ago). I have to thank Ian Rusten for providing me the scans of the OOR (and a few other) articles. At the time I didn't know about this issue.
Muziekkrant OOR, July 5 1972 Title: "Carl Wilson – The press has been writing the most wicked nonsense about us for years "
A beautiful house in Hilversum along a beautiful lane. In front of the door a neat "billiard sheet"; a well-maintained gravel path leads to the front door, with a name attached to it, one won’t easily situate some-where else but on this spot in ‘t Gooi [=area in the province of Utrecht, red]. Inside the decoration tends to look very conformistic. A fixed Berber carpet gives room to four monumental dark brown chairs (type Schöner Wohnen) and a similar couch. The rest of the furniture consists of so-called unrefined wood, but the price-tag – as it were – is still attached to it. On the wall paintings, that show wind mills at the horizon and a remarkable amount of restless waves.
A light brown skinned girl has let us in with the message that ‘it really won’t take long until sir will come down-stairs.’ Which is true. Preceded by his 3 year old son, who just hurt his lip pretty bad on an item of which he doesn’t know the (English) word yet, and still makes him shiver of fright, a relaxed Carl Wilson gives us a firm handshake (like a bench vice). He feels perfectly at home here.
Worked up situation
‘It’s very peaceful here and the sphere is relaxed. I’m glad that it’s here exactly as I had imagined when I took up the plan to go and live here for a while. I convinced the others that it would be good for all of us to catch or breath in The Netherlands and to get some new impulses, The first couple of weeks the situation still was a bit worked up, because renting a house was considerably more difficult than we had thought, but now everybody is having a good time. But I’ve also heard we live in acknowledged villages and cities: Heemstede, Haarlem, Lar-en, Bloemendaal, Hilversum and Vreeland. Only Dennis is not here. He can’t stand the climate and is looking for a house on Tenerife on the Canary Islands.’ What is true of the rumours that the Beach Boys had left [from California, red], because of a huge tax debt or a terrible lack of success? Carl Wilson: ‘All nonsense, mainly sent into the world by the British press, who has been writing the most wicked nonsense about us for years. God only knows why, but that’s the way it is. Let me ensure you that we don’t have any ‘tax problems’ of what kind so ever, outside the regular futilities that every group has, because clerks can’t conceive the life of a musician. Financial troubles are out of the question. We were and are well-occupied with well-paid work. The truth is that we want to quietly work on a new album, and that we think we need at about three months for it in a calm environment. We rented a building in Abcoude [north of Baambrugge, red], a very nice little farm, that used to be a studio in the past as well, and in which we set up our own equipment as is necessary for us. This secret studio is the fourth 16-track studio in The Netherlands.’
Late involvement [in socal/political issues, red]
Any idea what will end up on the album? Wilson: ‘Not yet, we just started. It will take at about six more weeks before everybody has gotten used to us, and we gave gotten used to all involved with the recordings. After that things will go pretty quick., and the pro-ject will slowly get shaped.. We spend much less time on the actual recording than people expect. What I know for sure is that the new album will breathe the atmosphere of this country, peaceful and relaxed. Songs like ‘Student Demonstration Time’ won’t be found on it.’ Speaking of that song, why did it take so long for the Beach Boys to put forward a current problem in their songs? Carl: ‘Nothing more than the simple fact that the idea hadn’t crossed our minds before. There are a lot of people that consider that naïve, so be it. You can’t just summon things like faith and political/social envolvement. Besides it’s a matter of remoulding it into the right shape on for example your concern towards the environment. You can’t just put some trendy quotes in a row and ad some music with it. When it comes, it comes, like in ‘Don’t Go Near The Water’ and ‘Student Demonstration Time’. Too late? It’s never too late, but often too early. You first have to wait if your vision on the matter is the correct one before you write a song about it. If you’re not familiar with all the facts, you make a fool out of yourself.‘
Bruce Johnston
Another topic. Why did Bruce Johnston leave [the group, red]? Carl Wilson: ‘He simply wanted to do more things than he was able to do with us. A long time ago – when he had just joined us – he already told us that he loved to tour, but that in the first place he was a composer. A couple of months ago he brought up the intention recording a sol album, and he approached us on our opinion on him taking a break of his work with us. We said: You have to do what you think is right, we’ll wait and see. That’s how it went, and not like the English press wants us to believe. Bruce would have been fired by us. Nonsense. There’s no talk of an argument. We call each other a lot and inform each other how both our projects are progressing. Businesslike Bruce is still for a considerable percentage part of us. And we’re still friends.’ Is it possible that Johnston will once return in the group? Carl Wilson: ‘Yes, that is very well possible.’ The Beach Boys show up on stage with so many people. Who belong to the current line-up and who are guests? Wilson: ‘We’re still busy finding a definite line-up. So Bruce currently isn’t part of it. Brian neither, that is: he doesn’t perform, since he gave it one more try and got problems with his ear. Dennis isn’t drumming since last year when he injured his hand, but he sings, plays piano and percussion. Al Jardine, Mike Love and I are doing what we’ve always been doing. Furthermore we have Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin as permanent members of the group, on drums and guitar. I’m very contented with those two, as our possibilities have become eternally bigger, also on the composing front. These two will play an important role with us in the future; even our way of singing will be modified. Ricky is by far the best drummer I’ve ever seen and hear playing, that should be said. I’m also trying to get Daryl Dragon as a permanent member of the group. That will succeed, although we have to pay him a fortune as compensation for his regular studio work. Daryl plays all types of keyboards and oper-ates the synthesizer.’ At the beginning of their stay in the Netherlands the Beach Boys declined offers for doing interviews. We’re not used to that from them. Carl Wilson: ‘No, that’s true. But we didn’t have a lot to say either. Our opinions on talking with the press quite differ. Mike loves it, as he loves meeting people. Brian doesn’t want any of it and consequently refuses. And I’m not fond of it, but I don’t withdraw from it either.’
Brian and the press
On Brian the strangest stories do the rounds. What is true of it? Carl: ‘Very little. It’s mostly fables from the press. In those stories Brian always occurs as a total lunatic, but there’s nothing wrong with him. He’s simply not an extravert person like for example Mike. Look, once some-one wrote that Brian had the opinion that, with ‘Smile’ he had written fire music. It supposedly had caused him to have burnt all tapes in a burst of insanity. When he read that, he immediately mentioned: ‘I don’t trust the press anymore, they can do what they want to from now on.’ And he kept that promise, whatever they rave about.’ But there has to be one journalist that could set the record straight in one long conversation? Carl: ‘That’s what we thought. A guy from Rolling Stone stayed with Brian for a week to settle with these fairy tales that are told about him. Within a week one should be able to form a picture of someone, but what eventu-ally turned out of it, provoked every imagination possible. Nothing turned out to be correct at all. Brian, for example, would have started crying during a conversation through the telephone, and that’s something I ha-ven’t seen him doing in twenty years. And furthermore, there was supposed to have been played Beach Boys music in his house all the time. Which seems implausible to me, because that would mean he has to be doing much more work in the studio than he want to. But the result of course is that Brian won’t “crawl out of his shell” [Dutch expression, red.] for outsiders at all anymore. It’s a vicious circle where Brian and the press find themselves in.’
Smile
But how about ‘Smile’? Carl Wilson: ‘There’s absolutely nothing mysterious about ‘Smile’. At the time we weren’t able to realise such an ambitious project. If, for example, you could hear what a song like ‘Heroes and Villains’ sounds like in several versions, you wouldn’t believe your ears. We simply weren’t able to make decisions, and when it was time to do so, everything was unfinished. Gradually we finished tracks that were meant for the original ‘Smile’-album, and these ended up on following albums. On our next [album] probably also something from the Smile-can will turn up.’ Aren’t the Beach Boys isolated from the big pop scene here in The Netherlands? Carl: ‘With our way of working we could probably live everywhere. We keep so many aspects in our own hands, you know. I don’t see any trouble when it comes to the contact with others.’ The European tour is now brought to a close. Can we expect something else in the near future, apart from tha album ‘made in Holland’? Carl Wilson: ‘When we record we never perform. The only thing we’re at work on is a free concert near Amster-dam. To show our appreciation for the hospitality we’ve enjoyed.’
text: Jip Golsteijn photo’s: Laurens van Houten
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Post by AGD on May 12, 2019 9:16:53 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it's been demolished.
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Post by ian on May 12, 2019 10:22:01 GMT -5
Brian mentions the ear surgery in some interviews I have from the late 60s and early 70s. Again-the extent to which Brian was incapacitated and in his room was overstated-he got around-even in 1973 he went to Iowa for spring sessions and to New York to do promo for spring
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Post by SMiLE-Holland on May 12, 2019 10:49:06 GMT -5
By the way, anyone had any luck finding the barn studio on google maps? The other week I was looking all around Baambrugge in street view but here Carl says it's in Abcoude so...oops Check page one of this topic. The address was Rijksstraatweg 45, Baambrugge. Or actually a former (chicken)barn behind the main building. Abcoude is just north of Baambrugge; Carl probably mixed up names. And as Andrew already mentioned; the studio is long gone...
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Post by filledeplage on May 12, 2019 11:03:28 GMT -5
You're all welcome!
Another article from that same OOR Magazine, July 1972. This time an interview with Carl Wilson at his home in Hilversum. Again hastily translated (10y ago). I have to thank Ian Rusten for providing me the scans of the OOR (and a few other) articles. At the time I didn't know about this issue.
Muziekkrant OOR, July 5 1972 Title: "Carl Wilson – The press has been writing the most wicked nonsense about us for years "
A beautiful house in Hilversum along a beautiful lane. In front of the door a neat "billiard sheet"; a well-maintained gravel path leads to the front door, with a name attached to it, one won’t easily situate some-where else but on this spot in ‘t Gooi [=area in the province of Utrecht, red]. Inside the decoration tends to look very conformistic. A fixed Berber carpet gives room to four monumental dark brown chairs (type Schöner Wohnen) and a similar couch. The rest of the furniture consists of so-called unrefined wood, but the price-tag – as it were – is still attached to it. On the wall paintings, that show wind mills at the horizon and a remarkable amount of restless waves.
A light brown skinned girl has let us in with the message that ‘it really won’t take long until sir will come down-stairs.’ Which is true. Preceded by his 3 year old son, who just hurt his lip pretty bad on an item of which he doesn’t know the (English) word yet, and still makes him shiver of fright, a relaxed Carl Wilson gives us a firm handshake (like a bench vice). He feels perfectly at home here.
Worked up situation
‘It’s very peaceful here and the sphere is relaxed. I’m glad that it’s here exactly as I had imagined when I took up the plan to go and live here for a while. I convinced the others that it would be good for all of us to catch or breath in The Netherlands and to get some new impulses, The first couple of weeks the situation still was a bit worked up, because renting a house was considerably more difficult than we had thought, but now everybody is having a good time. But I’ve also heard we live in acknowledged villages and cities: Heemstede, Haarlem, Lar-en, Bloemendaal, Hilversum and Vreeland. Only Dennis is not here. He can’t stand the climate and is looking for a house on Tenerife on the Canary Islands.’ What is true of the rumours that the Beach Boys had left [from California, red], because of a huge tax debt or a terrible lack of success? Carl Wilson: ‘All nonsense, mainly sent into the world by the British press, who has been writing the most wicked nonsense about us for years. God only knows why, but that’s the way it is. Let me ensure you that we don’t have any ‘tax problems’ of what kind so ever, outside the regular futilities that every group has, because clerks can’t conceive the life of a musician. Financial troubles are out of the question. We were and are well-occupied with well-paid work. The truth is that we want to quietly work on a new album, and that we think we need at about three months for it in a calm environment. We rented a building in Abcoude [north of Baambrugge, red], a very nice little farm, that used to be a studio in the past as well, and in which we set up our own equipment as is necessary for us. This secret studio is the fourth 16-track studio in The Netherlands.’
Late involvement [in socal/political issues, red]
Any idea what will end up on the album? Wilson: ‘Not yet, we just started. It will take at about six more weeks before everybody has gotten used to us, and we gave gotten used to all involved with the recordings. After that things will go pretty quick., and the pro-ject will slowly get shaped.. We spend much less time on the actual recording than people expect. What I know for sure is that the new album will breathe the atmosphere of this country, peaceful and relaxed. Songs like ‘Student Demonstration Time’ won’t be found on it.’ Speaking of that song, why did it take so long for the Beach Boys to put forward a current problem in their songs? Carl: ‘Nothing more than the simple fact that the idea hadn’t crossed our minds before. There are a lot of people that consider that naïve, so be it. You can’t just summon things like faith and political/social envolvement. Besides it’s a matter of remoulding it into the right shape on for example your concern towards the environment. You can’t just put some trendy quotes in a row and ad some music with it. When it comes, it comes, like in ‘Don’t Go Near The Water’ and ‘Student Demonstration Time’. Too late? It’s never too late, but often too early. You first have to wait if your vision on the matter is the correct one before you write a song about it. If you’re not familiar with all the facts, you make a fool out of yourself.‘
Bruce Johnston
Another topic. Why did Bruce Johnston leave [the group, red]? Carl Wilson: ‘He simply wanted to do more things than he was able to do with us. A long time ago – when he had just joined us – he already told us that he loved to tour, but that in the first place he was a composer. A couple of months ago he brought up the intention recording a sol album, and he approached us on our opinion on him taking a break of his work with us. We said: You have to do what you think is right, we’ll wait and see. That’s how it went, and not like the English press wants us to believe. Bruce would have been fired by us. Nonsense. There’s no talk of an argument. We call each other a lot and inform each other how both our projects are progressing. Businesslike Bruce is still for a considerable percentage part of us. And we’re still friends.’ Is it possible that Johnston will once return in the group? Carl Wilson: ‘Yes, that is very well possible.’ The Beach Boys show up on stage with so many people. Who belong to the current line-up and who are guests? Wilson: ‘We’re still busy finding a definite line-up. So Bruce currently isn’t part of it. Brian neither, that is: he doesn’t perform, since he gave it one more try and got problems with his ear. Dennis isn’t drumming since last year when he injured his hand, but he sings, plays piano and percussion. Al Jardine, Mike Love and I are doing what we’ve always been doing. Furthermore we have Ricky Fataar and Blondie Chaplin as permanent members of the group, on drums and guitar. I’m very contented with those two, as our possibilities have become eternally bigger, also on the composing front. These two will play an important role with us in the future; even our way of singing will be modified. Ricky is by far the best drummer I’ve ever seen and hear playing, that should be said. I’m also trying to get Daryl Dragon as a permanent member of the group. That will succeed, although we have to pay him a fortune as compensation for his regular studio work. Daryl plays all types of keyboards and oper-ates the synthesizer.’ At the beginning of their stay in the Netherlands the Beach Boys declined offers for doing interviews. We’re not used to that from them. Carl Wilson: ‘No, that’s true. But we didn’t have a lot to say either. Our opinions on talking with the press quite differ. Mike loves it, as he loves meeting people. Brian doesn’t want any of it and consequently refuses. And I’m not fond of it, but I don’t withdraw from it either.’
Brian and the press
On Brian the strangest stories do the rounds. What is true of it? Carl: ‘Very little. It’s mostly fables from the press. In those stories Brian always occurs as a total lunatic, but there’s nothing wrong with him. He’s simply not an extravert person like for example Mike. Look, once some-one wrote that Brian had the opinion that, with ‘Smile’ he had written fire music. It supposedly had caused him to have burnt all tapes in a burst of insanity. When he read that, he immediately mentioned: ‘I don’t trust the press anymore, they can do what they want to from now on.’ And he kept that promise, whatever they rave about.’ But there has to be one journalist that could set the record straight in one long conversation? Carl: ‘That’s what we thought. A guy from Rolling Stone stayed with Brian for a week to settle with these fairy tales that are told about him. Within a week one should be able to form a picture of someone, but what eventu-ally turned out of it, provoked every imagination possible. Nothing turned out to be correct at all. Brian, for example, would have started crying during a conversation through the telephone, and that’s something I ha-ven’t seen him doing in twenty years. And furthermore, there was supposed to have been played Beach Boys music in his house all the time. Which seems implausible to me, because that would mean he has to be doing much more work in the studio than he want to. But the result of course is that Brian won’t “crawl out of his shell” [Dutch expression, red.] for outsiders at all anymore. It’s a vicious circle where Brian and the press find themselves in.’
Smile
But how about ‘Smile’? Carl Wilson: ‘There’s absolutely nothing mysterious about ‘Smile’. At the time we weren’t able to realise such an ambitious project. If, for example, you could hear what a song like ‘Heroes and Villains’ sounds like in several versions, you wouldn’t believe your ears. We simply weren’t able to make decisions, and when it was time to do so, everything was unfinished. Gradually we finished tracks that were meant for the original ‘Smile’-album, and these ended up on following albums. On our next [album] probably also something from the Smile-can will turn up.’ Aren’t the Beach Boys isolated from the big pop scene here in The Netherlands? Carl: ‘With our way of working we could probably live everywhere. We keep so many aspects in our own hands, you know. I don’t see any trouble when it comes to the contact with others.’ The European tour is now brought to a close. Can we expect something else in the near future, apart from tha album ‘made in Holland’? Carl Wilson: ‘When we record we never perform. The only thing we’re at work on is a free concert near Amster-dam. To show our appreciation for the hospitality we’ve enjoyed.’
text: Jip Golsteijn photo’s: Laurens van Houten
Thanks so much for this!
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Post by Paul JB on May 12, 2019 11:26:21 GMT -5
This thread is getting better each day. One of the best in years.,
Thanks Salty and Ian.... so this ear stuff WAS documented. I don’t remember it being in any books .... Leaf, Carlin, Brian’s bio. If it wasn’t then that’s a very odd omission. Maybe it was but this all seems new to me and I read those.
These articles would lead you to believe Brian had NO serious problems from what Carl and Marilyn are saying. So even then or now it’s up to anyone interested to determine what was fact and what was spin.
And no, Brian did not stop altogether, or lock himself in at home, but he sure as hell did less and less every year and became more and more a recluse after Smile was shelved. And as was already mentioned, just a few years later Landy arrives. So are we to believe it had been all good but then Brian developed mental issues when Endless Summer was a smash. WOW ...that’s it...and Mike’s hand was in that...woot!
Seriously though, Brian and his team these days state that he has heard voices since the 60’s. What a puzzle these folks have been. How would one ever get to the bottom of any of it. At least we will always have all the great songs.
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Post by ian on May 12, 2019 11:35:36 GMT -5
I don’t know why everything has to be tied up so neatly. It’s complicated-did he have some psychological problems-clearly yes, did he abuse drugs-clearly yes, did he lose interest in being a beach boy-clearly yes, did he have an ear issue-clearly yes, did he stay in his room for five years-clearly no, was he still able to make records-clearly yes, did some BBs object to some of his ideas-yes, were all his ideas good -no, but some were still pretty awesome .
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 12, 2019 12:15:16 GMT -5
Mainly, because the lies, untruths or stuff that has been past on due to having agendas with or about Brian, have maligned the Beach Boys as a band. Though, I will say, even as the truth has unfolded over the years, the myths still manage to linger on and hold weight. As has been said, never let a good myth stand in the way of the truth.
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Post by Mikie on May 12, 2019 12:32:31 GMT -5
I just think of what Steve Desper alluded to a few years ago, particularly what was going on during the Surf's Up album sessions. That Brian stayed in his room upstairs most of the time, listening through the floor and periodically phoning down suggestions to the studio, and every once in awhile going down in his bathrobe to give examples of what would sound good. I also think about what Melinda said on Larry King in 2004 - that the family didn't know what depression was and didn't know how to deal with Brian's condition, even though they could have sought help at UCLA a couple of miles from the house.
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Post by Paul JB on May 12, 2019 13:17:43 GMT -5
I don’t know why everything has to be tied up so neatly. It’s complicated-did he have some psychological problems-clearly yes, did he abuse drugs-clearly yes, did he lose interest in being a beach boy-clearly yes, did he have an ear issue-clearly yes, did he stay in his room for five years-clearly no, was he still able to make records-clearly yes, did some BBs object to some of his ideas-yes, were all his ideas good -no, but some were still pretty awesome . What Dirk said...also because people have written books and articles over the years chock full of fallacies and past it off as fact.....not you though...And it’s not that complicated to get a simple fact out there like why Brian was deaf in an ear to begin with, birth, his dad, or the out of left field “a kid hit him with a pipe” which is what we got in Brian’s book a few years ago. It’s very annoying and makes people like me never want to read anything put out by people as too much of the time it’s not about truth but a quick buck.
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 16:50:42 GMT -5
It's always interesting to go back and re-read things from the past. i, like many here, have done so for years. And now to see this Carl Wilson interview in the dutch newspaper....
I first have to say, whether some will agree or not, that at times, the band itself (meaning the members) occasionally added to the "mystic of Brian and his problems" with comments both direct and subtle to the media. Brian was suffering from his issues, whether depression or burned out on drugs or whatever you want to add to his demise in terms of being productive. But I also see things said over the years, which almost make it sound like, "Yes the Beach Boys are continuing and Brian is still involved and writing and producing etc..." which various band members would allude to which would "sugar coat" some of the real issues Brian was dealing with. It's almost like the band was in denial that Brian was suffering, and with this denial, at some times (especially the 1-2 years after SMiLE), there was little being done by the band or the family to help Brian with these issues. You know how many times you'd read, "Oh that's just Brian, being Brian!" when some of these stories would come up, and the band was asked about them.
As time goes on, and more has come out or been revealed about Brian, it's clear to me that he did need some help that he was definitely not getting. It's somewhat obvious at many times, that the band continue with or without Brian's involvement, but the band members would almost never say, "Brian's not doing anything on this project"...or that "Brian's at home because he's depressed or is dealing with some issues." They would say, "Brian's at home because he doesn't like touring" or "Brian's not with us on this tour, because he wasn't feeling good" or something like this. They never seemed to want to address his 'real' condition at any time. A shame really.
This article from this Holland newspaper, at least to me, has Carl somewhat pointing the finger at others, like the media, for adding to Brian's reclusiveness. Could be. But I also think the Band, and especially Carl, was also being very protective of Brian, and really wasn't saying too much about his well being or mental state. He doesn't want to add anything negative about his brother. I've seen this many times from him over the years in interviews.
Yes, it's very complicated as we know, but I also feel that some of this "complication" had also been created by the band to again, sugar coat much of what was actually going on during some of this different times. But as we also know, the show went on, as expected.
Dogbone
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Post by ian on May 12, 2019 17:05:33 GMT -5
100% agree with dogbone-everyone, not just Marilyn, was at pains to downplay Brian’s problems. For one more thing-business demanded it. Whether he was ill or well-Brian had to show up at the 1970 Warner’s signing and promise to be an active part of future records. In 1970 the BBs meant Brian or no contract. I think cbs also had hopes that he’d be active and the BBs fed those hopes . And what else could they do? I mean are they going to tell a record exec-well actually the man in the band recognized universally as a genius will at best only play a cameo role in future albums but al has written a nifty tune? Brian being seen as an active bb even if he wasn’t was very important to the BBs into the 1980s.
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Post by Paul JB on May 12, 2019 19:54:29 GMT -5
Yes, good points the last couple posts. I don’t want to totally derail so I’ll keep this my last point(s)., It would have been nice all these years later when most of what applied in Ian and Dog,s posts is no longer valid to open up a little. Much of this stuff and a lot more could have been cleared up in Brian’s last book.
I made mention on the PSM about how crushed I was (still am) when Dolores O’riordan of the Cranberries died last year. Her band mates just finished and released their last album that was in the works. I have enormous respect for these guys...they always take the high road and don’t say bad things about her or add to any media speculation. They have been doing a ton of interviews to promote the record and keep reiterating that she was in a good place. Since I do not know them I’ll take their word for it and I do think it was an accident as it was ruled. That said, how good of a place could she have been in when she mixed large quantities of alcohol with prescription drugs resulting in drowning in a bathtub with her pajamas still on.
So there is only so much fanatics like us will ever know or need to know. Decades later though, when people are putting out books, like Brians, some things could and should be put to rest.
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Post by Mikie on May 12, 2019 22:09:01 GMT -5
And then the ongoing excuse over the years was that "Well, you know Marilyn was a young wife". My answer to that (forgive me for being crass) is........where was the rest of the family?
And have the details ever been disclosed regarding Brian's supposed institutionalization in 1968?
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Post by E on May 13, 2019 1:18:50 GMT -5
Of course. Walter Yetnikoff, President of CBS Records, summoned the Beach Boys, four years late with their new album, to his office for what they believed would be a pep talk. In fact, he opened with the words, "Gentlemen, I think I've been fucked". So much for insisting that Brian Wilson be on board.... Can't help wondering if he was hoping to hear something akin to Today.
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