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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 22, 2019 19:58:43 GMT -5
You gotta understand, people, that everybody's got different criteria in defining who's the best singer. To me, versatility isn't be-all end-all. I simply hear voices & by comparing decide the best is that which *sounds* the best. But if you start this versatile talk point, I'd say Al can sing slow, goofy, rocking etc. with ease. But, to quote monolithic, you and monolithic are entitled to your opinion that Carl is the best singer. You know, it's opinion too. Tastes differ & all that.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 22, 2019 21:06:34 GMT -5
You gotta understand, people, that everybody's got different criteria in defining who's the best singer. To me, versatility isn't be-all end-all. I simply hear voices & by comparing decide the best is that which *sounds* the best. But if you start this versatile talk point, I'd say Al can sing slow, goofy, rocking etc. with ease. But, to quote monolithic , you and monolithic are entitled to your opinion that Carl is the best singer. You know, it's opinion too. Tastes differ & all that. Some things are opinion and we are all entitled to them. My post above is fact. Carl was the leader, became the premier lead singer of the band (even more so than Mike) and has a versatile voice for singing multiple styles of music. Personally, I enjoy all of their voices. Their singing is what drew me to them, as much as the songs.
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Post by monolithic on Feb 22, 2019 21:48:04 GMT -5
You gotta understand, people, that everybody's got different criteria in defining who's the best singer. To me, versatility isn't be-all end-all. I simply hear voices & by comparing decide the best is that which *sounds* the best. But if you start this versatile talk point, I'd say Al can sing slow, goofy, rocking etc. with ease. But, to quote monolithic , you and monolithic are entitled to your opinion that Carl is the best singer. You know, it's opinion too. Tastes differ & all that. Indeed, I think we all understand that everyone will have different criteria and that it is all a matter of opinion. However, I don't think it's exactly controversial to say that Carl and Brian are generally considered to be the finest singers by the press and the general music fan. In Q magazine, for example, Carl was listed as 20th greatest singer of all time and Brian regularly features on these lists as well. That obviously doesn't mean that people can't have differing opinions though.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 22, 2019 22:05:27 GMT -5
2 drbeachboy: Things you listed regarding Carl is different than "best singer in the band". It's highly subjective what people consider "best singer". If saying Al is the best singer in the band is opinion, saying Carl is the best too. There shouldn't be selectiveness about it. Really, anybody gonna defend things I say, agree with me, support? I mean, I figured everybody knew that taste is subjective. Did the trends change or something? Been recent 180-degree shift? 2 monolithic: Sure but what is generally considered is still these anonymous people's opinions. That's the point. You like to,argue when no argument is needed. You like Al, fantastic!
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Post by monolithic on Feb 22, 2019 22:08:06 GMT -5
2 drbeachboy: Things you listed regarding Carl is different than "best singer in the band". It's highly subjective what people consider "best singer". If saying Al is the best singer in the band is opinion, saying Carl is the best too. There shouldn't be selectiveness about it. Really, anybody gonna defend things I say, agree with me, support? I mean, I figured everybody knew that taste is subjective. Did the trends change or something? Been recent 180-degree shift? 2 monolithic: Sure but what is generally considered is still these anonymous people's opinions. That's the point. If I were to post that Pet Sounds is superior to Summer in Paradise, you would find a way to try to start an argument about that too.
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B.E.
Kahuna
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Post by B.E. on Feb 22, 2019 22:42:42 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about refuting this. I think Carl's contribution is generally understood by most fans though, and knowledgeable music fans also know that he was the best singer in the band. A very strong case can be made for Carl, but ultimately I think it's only a matter of opinion - not fact. Personally, I think peak Brian was best.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 22, 2019 22:52:27 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about refuting this. I think Carl's contribution is generally understood by most fans though, and knowledgeable music fans also know that he was the best singer in the band. A very strong case can be made for Carl, but ultimately I think it's only a matter of opinion - not fact. Personally, I think peak Brian was best. Thanks. At least somebody understood what I'd been saying these past few replies.
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Post by monolithic on Feb 22, 2019 23:38:47 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about refuting this. Nobody said that it couldnt be refuted. There is such a thing as using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 23, 2019 9:23:01 GMT -5
You gotta understand, people, that everybody's got different criteria in defining who's the best singer. To me, versatility isn't be-all end-all. I simply hear voices & by comparing decide the best is that which *sounds* the best. But if you start this versatile talk point, I'd say Al can sing slow, goofy, rocking etc. with ease. But, to quote monolithic , you and monolithic are entitled to your opinion that Carl is the best singer. You know, it's opinion too. Tastes differ & all that. Some things are opinion and we are all entitled to them. My post above is fact. Carl was the leader, became the premier lead singer of the band (even more so than Mike) and has a versatile voice for singing multiple styles of music. Personally, I enjoy all of their voices. Their singing is what drew me to them, as much as the songs. Agreed - and if this same question was put to any of the band, including Brian - they would likely say that Carl’s vocals were the best of them all. I’ve read when Brian wrote GOK - it would be Carl’s to sing. His voice was a combination of a full cabernet and dark chocolate, if wine and chocolate could be a metaphor. He had that something extra - that “je ne sais quoi.” It was a surprise to hear his mom, Audree (whom I think he looked like) on the new release, “Is it True what they Say About Dixie?” And she had a great voice as well.
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The 4th Wilson Bro.
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Post by The 4th Wilson Bro. on Jul 11, 2019 16:56:40 GMT -5
I'm late to this discussion, as you can see. But if I'm making a comparison between Al and Carl, it would sound something like this:
Al Jardine? He's great!
and…
The Great Carl Wilson!
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Post by AGD on Jul 22, 2019 12:08:48 GMT -5
You gotta understand, people, that everybody's got different criteria in defining who's the best singer. To me, versatility isn't be-all end-all. I simply hear voices & by comparing decide the best is that which *sounds* the best. But if you start this versatile talk point, I'd say Al can sing slow, goofy, rocking etc. with ease. But, to quote monolithic , you and monolithic are entitled to your opinion that Carl is the best singer. You know, it's opinion too. Tastes differ & all that.Indeed they do. The thing is to accept this and further understand that everyone's opinions are as valid as anyone else's. No-one has the "right" opinion.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jul 27, 2019 0:35:00 GMT -5
Carl is SO under-appreciated. And here is a fact that you might not hear from others. But a lot of the first gen BB fans really didn't like Carl (some have written books) because they felt he was a stumbling block for Brian and took away the attention from Brian. I use to tell them (some of whom are gone now) I thought that was unfair. I still think it is. Just as accusations against Mike have been thrown around since the late 1970s, so too have these barbs against Carl. In both cases, some truth exists, but not to the extent that any hate or anger should be focused on Carl or Mike.
My first BIG personal opinion, and one that got me in trouble with the other fans back in the day, was I was THRILLED, I mean THRILLED that Carl left the band in 1981. I saw the group in February of that year (everyone and their brother I sure has read my tale of meeting the band before the concert so I won't repeat it again). They..........SUCKED! Brian did DON'T WORRY BABY and it sounded like it did at the Queen Mary in July. I was just sitting there with my girlfriend and saying "Holy shit, they need to do.....something! Anything." They missed ques, stomped on each other's vocals etc. So when I heard that Carl had left them high and dry, I was over the moon.
Because, no matter what you read about it in articles in which Mike might say "Hey, we just got some other guys and moved on, no biggie!" they were hurting. Just look at the reviews from then. And the fact that Carl kept warning them he might quit, and the group saying yeah yeah, SURE YOU WILL I think pushed him to leave. And in the end, they were the better for it. In late 1982, with Carl back, they came through Houston and they KICKED ASS! I have not seen them that good EVER!
Carl also held the group together and got the recordings out. His work on Sunflower thru till LA was really something else. Surf's Up is only out because he pushed it to be great, and it was.
Yes, Carl is under appreciated, but we at least know the truth!
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Post by filledeplage on Jul 27, 2019 7:27:51 GMT -5
Carl is SO under-appreciated. And here is a fact that you might not hear from others. But a lot of the first gen BB fans really didn't like Carl (some have written books) because they felt he was a stumbling block for Brian and took away the attention from Brian. I use to tell them (some of whom are gone now) I thought that was unfair. I still think it is. Just as accusations against Mike have been thrown around since the late 1970s, so too have these barbs against Carl. In both cases, some truth exists, but not to the extent that any hate or anger should be focused on Carl or Mike.
My first BIG personal opinion, and one that got me in trouble with the other fans back in the day, was I was THRILLED, I mean THRILLED that Carl left the band in 1981. I saw the group in February of that year (everyone and their brother I sure has read my tale of meeting the band before the concert so I won't repeat it again). They..........SUCKED! Brian did DON'T WORRY BABY and it sounded like it did at the Queen Mary in July. I was just sitting there with my girlfriend and saying "Holy shit, they need to do.....something! Anything." They missed ques, stomped on each other's vocals etc. So when I heard that Carl had left them high and dry, I was over the moon.
Because, no matter what you read about it in articles in which Mike might say "Hey, we just got some other guys and moved on, no biggie!" they were hurting. Just look at the reviews from then. And the fact that Carl kept warning them he might quit, and the group saying yeah yeah, SURE YOU WILL I think pushed him to leave. And in the end, they were the better for it. In late 1982, with Carl back, they came through Houston and they KICKED ASS! I have not seen them that good EVER!
Carl also held the group together and got the recordings out. His work on Sunflower thru till LA was really something else. Surf's Up is only out because he pushed it to be great, and it was.
Yes, Carl is under appreciated, but we at least know the truth!
It could be generational. If you saw Carl, live, there was little doubt that he was the proverbial frosting on the cake. He did not strike me as an attention seeker but someone who sought consistency in the band's performances and when he was not there - it showed. I doubt even Brian would concede that he was easily the best singer in the band. Maybe not the hi-low range of Brian or Mike...but in the Carl zone, no one ever touched him. When I heard "Is it True what they say about Dixie?" it was clear to me that Audree's voice was the family model. Carl did stuff that no one else could do in concert such as Don't Talk, You Still Believe in Me, Surf's Up as well as the standards they are best known for.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jul 28, 2019 22:27:16 GMT -5
Nice to see some remembrances here from those who GET CARL.
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The 4th Wilson Bro.
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Post by The 4th Wilson Bro. on Aug 7, 2019 16:49:04 GMT -5
At least one Internet site ranks the 30 greatest voices in rock-n-roll history. I perused that list, starting at #30 and working my way down to #1. By the time I reached the Top 10, I was expecting Carl's name to appear with each new click. In fact, after I got to #2, I was certain Carl Wilson was just one click away. It didn't happen.
What idiot would compile a ranking of the Top 30 voices in rock-n-roll and completely ignore the great Carl Wilson?
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Post by kds on Aug 8, 2019 7:19:55 GMT -5
At least one Internet site ranks the 30 greatest voices in rock-n-roll history. I perused that list, starting at #30 and working my way down to #1. By the time I reached the Top 10, I was expecting Carl's name to appear with each new click. In fact, after I got to #2, I was certain Carl Wilson was just one click away. It didn't happen. What idiot would compile a ranking of the Top 30 voices in rock-n-roll and completely ignore the great Carl Wilson? I'd like to see this list just out of curiosity. In the listmakers' defense, these greatest singer lists are usually reserved for lead vocalists, or at least primarily vocalists. Carl was one of five lead singers in The Beach Boys, so I can see how he'd be overlooked.
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Post by filledeplage on Aug 8, 2019 7:25:00 GMT -5
At least one Internet site ranks the 30 greatest voices in rock-n-roll history. I perused that list, starting at #30 and working my way down to #1. By the time I reached the Top 10, I was expecting Carl's name to appear with each new click. In fact, after I got to #2, I was certain Carl Wilson was just one click away. It didn't happen. What idiot would compile a ranking of the Top 30 voices in rock-n-roll and completely ignore the great Carl Wilson? I'd like to see this list just out of curiosity. In the listmakers' defense, these greatest singer lists are usually reserved for lead vocalists, or at least primarily vocalists. Carl was one of five lead singers in The Beach Boys, so I can see how he'd be overlooked. GOK - Carl has the dominant lead vocal. He should be in that list. But a lot of the work is a split lead.
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Post by kds on Aug 8, 2019 7:40:10 GMT -5
I'd like to see this list just out of curiosity. In the listmakers' defense, these greatest singer lists are usually reserved for lead vocalists, or at least primarily vocalists. Carl was one of five lead singers in The Beach Boys, so I can see how he'd be overlooked. GOK - Carl has the dominant lead vocal. He should be in that list. But a lot of the work is a split lead. I'd probably put Carl in my personal Top 30, but I'd also like to see said list before declaring the listmaker an "idiot" for leaving Carl out.
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Post by radiokingdom on Mar 15, 2023 9:26:51 GMT -5
Has anyone read the Carl bio by Crowley? I heard it's kind of a Carl-centric BB history, but maybe there's good material there?
It would be great to have a serious Carl-centric Carl-bio with everything that can be gotten from those who knew him and are still living. He is a mystery to me except for his work with the band.
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Post by lonelysummer on Mar 15, 2023 20:26:09 GMT -5
Has anyone read the Carl bio by Crowley? I heard it's kind of a Carl-centric BB history, but maybe there's good material there? It would be great to have a serious Carl-centric Carl-bio with everything that can be gotten from those who knew him and are still living. He is a mystery to me except for his work with the band. I read it, and it's basically an average BBs bio, with a little more emphasis than usual on Carl. I doubt we will ever get a definitive bio because Carl was so private, and people loved him so much, they don't want to open the window on his private life.
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Post by radiokingdom on Mar 15, 2023 21:08:24 GMT -5
Has anyone read the Carl bio by Crowley? I heard it's kind of a Carl-centric BB history, but maybe there's good material there? It would be great to have a serious Carl-centric Carl-bio with everything that can be gotten from those who knew him and are still living. He is a mystery to me except for his work with the band. I read it, and it's basically an average BBs bio, with a little more emphasis than usual on Carl. I doubt we will ever get a definitive bio because Carl was so private, and people loved him so much, they don't want to open the window on his private life. I don't even want dirt. I would settle for a book of transcribed interviews, collections of all his public statements about the music. Anything that anyone wanted to share about him (private comments about music!) would be a huge bonus.
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Post by AGD on Mar 17, 2023 1:33:11 GMT -5
Has anyone read the Carl bio by Crowley? I heard it's kind of a Carl-centric BB history, but maybe there's good material there? It would be great to have a serious Carl-centric Carl-bio with everything that can be gotten from those who knew him and are still living. He is a mystery to me except for his work with the band. Yes. It's basically a long article padded to book length: even the author has admitted that. Slightly dull with very little new info.
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Post by boogieboarder on Mar 17, 2023 10:27:39 GMT -5
… What idiot would compile a ranking of the Top 30 voices in rock-n-roll and completely ignore the great Carl Wilson? Probably some idiot who heard Carl singing and thought it was Brian.
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Post by filledeplage on Mar 17, 2023 10:46:16 GMT -5
… What idiot would compile a ranking of the Top 30 voices in rock-n-roll and completely ignore the great Carl Wilson? Probably some idiot who heard Carl singing and thought it was Brian. Entirely possible. Even the biggest in rock know. And even now, he is not forgotten in the BB shows.
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Post by lonelysummer on Mar 6, 2024 17:38:23 GMT -5
Screen shots of a couple articles Carl was included in, 1981 and 1983. I always find it interesting to read about his solo career. Attachments:
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