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Post by mfp on Apr 9, 2024 23:23:48 GMT -5
Perhaps too many cooks is part of the problem:
The film is produced by Frank Marshall, Irving Azoff, Nicholas Ferrall, Jeanne Elfant Festa, Aly Parker, with Nigel Sinclair, Mark Monroe, Tony Rosenthal, Cassidy Hartmann, Glen Zipper, Thom Zimny, Beth Collins, Jimmy Edwards, Susan Genco, Marc Cimino, Jody Gerson, Bruce Resnikoff, and Ben J. Murphy serving as executive producers.
Malcolm Leo would have given the other "talking heads" the chop!
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Post by radiantradish on Apr 10, 2024 3:51:44 GMT -5
So Dave is omitted from the faces on the top but he's supposed to be on the truck at Paradise cove? Why can't they just be honest about the history. Well he was at Paradise Cove but wasn’t there in the 70s. Seems pretty accurate to me. The fact that they have the 70s era Boys at the top gives me a bit of assurance actually.
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Post by AGD on Apr 10, 2024 4:26:26 GMT -5
So Dave is omitted from the faces on the top but he's supposed to be on the truck at Paradise cove? Why can't they just be honest about the history. Here's a notion - it's a radical one but I feel has merit. How's about we actually watch the doc before complaining about it?
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,978
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Post by petsite on Apr 10, 2024 4:33:08 GMT -5
So Dave is omitted from the faces on the top but he's supposed to be on the truck at Paradise cove? Why can't they just be honest about the history. Here's a notion - it's a radical one but I feel has merit. How's about we actually watch the doc before complaining about it? You speak gibberish sir. What kind of nonsensical notion is that? LMAO 🤣
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Post by E on Apr 10, 2024 6:03:58 GMT -5
So Dave is omitted from the faces on the top but he's supposed to be on the truck at Paradise cove? Why can't they just be honest about the history. Here's a notion - it's a radical one but I feel has merit. How's about we actually watch the doc before complaining about it? Literally...
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nater
Kahuna
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Likes: 368
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Post by nater on Apr 10, 2024 9:43:20 GMT -5
I certainly agree with the worries and frustrations expressed here. But I'll reserve my judgement til actually watching the movie.
Like I said, I think the standard operating procedure for the band now is to entice the general public with the surf/summer/hotrods/American Beatles kinda vibes, and once they've got people's attention, they dig a little deeper. Kinda like how the Feel Flows and Sail On Sailor box sets were jam packed with goodies and rarities, but mainly promoted with their most recognizable material.
It is no surprise that the trailer has a very "Disney-ish"/Americana/Nostalgia kinda feel. That's basically Disney's entire brand, and much of The BBs' brand at this point. The trailer also has to be appropriate for advertisers on social media, so it's not surprising they didn't mention drugs/sex/etc in a trailer that is meant to be seen by people of all ages. I'm nearly positive the doc will find a way to address some of the darker times while still honoring the band members' wishes on how they wanna be perceived. I think they did a nice job of that for both American Band and Endless Harmony and have no doubt they'll do it here.
I do predict it'll be an AB/EH meets 2012's Doin' It Again, along with the 'talking heads' we got so much of in LPR (Yes, there were also 'talking heads' in EH and IJWMFTT but they were used tastefully in my opinion)... I really don't mind *some* interjections from these people, it should just be done sparingly. Don Was, for example, is someone who SHOULD be there to talk about the 90's sessions and maybe even his work with Brian as a solo artist. But do I wanna hear him pontificate about Brian being "THE BEST" for the millionth time? Ehhhhhh....
It's obvious we're going to hear the classic story of the band's 60's heyday... But I am still hoping they cover the whole saga 61-present day, the unique albums that came after PS/Smile that are too often overlooked, the contributions of all the band members, the splintering between a studio and stage lineup (and even the multiple factions post-98), C50 (and afterwards), etc... It's a 63 year (and counting!) story. I wanna hear about it all. Too many BBs documentaries act like the story is 61-67 or 61-74 (with their history afterwards completely glossed over). Let's hear about as much as possible.
I also WISH we could hear from people like Ed Carter, Scott Totten, Darian Sahanaja, Bobby Figueroa, Christian Love, etc (you get the point) who have played with the band (or versions of it) for eons... But I just saw Bobby's wife mention on FB that Disney informed them that Bobby's interview scenes wouldn't make the final cut... so that makes me wonder how much we'll be hearing from the extended band.
At the end of the day I am still looking forward to the doc. Even if it doesn't meet all my wishes. I am very happy the band is getting this kind of major attention from the likes of Iconic, Disney, Genesis, UMG, etc... They have certainly earned the new attention they are receiving. It would be practically *impossible* to make a movie, book, or box set that would please ALL of us fans, and the public at large. All of these things require compromise among the creators. It definitely doesn't seem easy to at the same time please us diehards who wanna hear about things like Holland and the "tarmac incident", while also pleasing the generation of fans who go to BBs shows in their Hawaiian shirts ready to hear 'The Little Old Lady' and 'Barbara Ann' (songs they likely don't even know The BBs didn't write, haha). It definitely can't be as simple as it seems to please all the different kind of fans The BBs have. So I commend them for trying.
Even if the new movie or book doesn't satisfy all the things I'd be looking for, I am so glad they exist. For what feels like most of my life now, I have WISHED for the band to get this kind of attention and new products. The way The Beatles and Elvis do. I am glad they are finally getting that treatment.
It did just occur to me that it's interesting what songs were included in the trailer. - Fun Fun Fun - I Get Around - God Only Knows - Wouldn't It Be Nice
I have to say, I'm surprised there was no Kokomo, Surfin USA or Good Vibrations (though there was a little piece of session chat at the beginning). But I certainly won't complain about choosing those four songs. They have hundreds of songs they could have used but those four are no brainers. All 10/10 masterpieces that are beloved by the world, so I completely understand why those songs were chosen. Just an observation I made.
Also, I might hold the unpopular opinion, but I quite like the poster!! I know many fans have a gripe with the fact that late 70's/early 80's pics were used of all the members except Denny. But I can only assume that's because his family wanted him to represented when he was still healthy/happy, before his massive decline. They'd probably prefer him to be remembered as the handsome surfer than his appearance around the time that these other headshots are from. I have no real complaints about the poster. I like the pictures of each guy and the juxtaposition between their 15BO-KTSA era appearance and the Surfer/Pendelton era appearance.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,978
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Post by petsite on Apr 10, 2024 9:54:54 GMT -5
I can tell you one point I made ad nauseum was to drive home what an integral part of the Beach Boys story Carl Wilson was. He was the backbone of the group and his contributions are often overlooked.
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Post by northcoast on Apr 10, 2024 10:28:11 GMT -5
Good Lord. Even complaining about the images on a promotional poster. Dennis has no beard and Brian has too much beard. One two minute trailer designed specifically to pull in those subscribers who love the music but don't know about the Radiant Radish and some here have mini strokes over what they saw. With American Band and Endless Harmony in our collection, one would assume this doc will follow the same historical path. I too am tired of Don Was but he doesn't offend me. As far as Brian making any in depth commentary on anything post 2020, well good luck with that. My hope is this goes through the 50th anniversary, is honest enough to deal with the group's conflicts and how that affected the music post 1973, and gives proper due to the 1969-1971 period when the rest of the group emerged from Brian's shadow. To me it is amazing that after nearly 62 years, how much attention is paid to this band that started in a music room in a house in Hawthorne, California.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 10, 2024 10:39:10 GMT -5
Good Lord. Even complaining about the images on a promotional poster. Dennis has no beard and Brian has too much beard. I'm really sorry. Sometimes I forget who my audience is. In the future, I'll try my damnedest not to contribute useless drivel again.
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Post by jds on Apr 10, 2024 12:10:49 GMT -5
My issue isn't so much that I don't think it will be a quality fluff documentary so much as the group already has at least three good fluff documentaries to its name. Imagine the missed opportunities if the Beatles had just remade The Compleat Beatles every fifteen years.
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Post by newbbfan on Apr 10, 2024 13:12:06 GMT -5
Some split here between those were critical and those who are waiting. I am both critical and also waiting. I've made no comment whatsoever about the documentary per se cuz no one has seen it and therefore it cannot be discussed. My commentary and critique are on the poster and the trailer and promotional materials. We were right to critique what exists. Once more exists we can critique it or not critique it.
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Post by mikedonn on Apr 10, 2024 13:17:15 GMT -5
Hard core fans like us are not the target audience for this. We know, thanks to researchers, more than this Doc can cover (or some of the Boys will remember).
In the 90s it was great to hear the talking heads as they helped give the group some street cred, especially amoungst younger musicians and the music buying public. How many young folk nowadays know who Don Was etc are? I'd rather hear from guys like Bobby F or Ed C.
I wish it was more like Beatles Anthology but I'll enjoy it for what it will be. An updated rehash of all the stuff we've heard before.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 10, 2024 13:47:47 GMT -5
Hard core fans like us are not the target audience for this. We know, thanks to researchers, more than this Doc can cover (or some of the Boys will remember). In the 90s it was great to hear the talking heads as they helped give the group some street cred, especially amoungst younger musicians and the music buying public. How many young folk nowadays know who Don Was etc are? I'd rather hear from guys like Bobby F or Ed C. I wish it was more like Beatles Anthology but I'll enjoy it for what it will be. An updated rehash of all the stuff we've heard before. All of the above. And you're right about the target audience. That's the way it was with the previous documentaries - accessible to the average fan (or non-fan). As hard cores, we'll scrutinize and nit-pick every detail of it. And I've often thought about the potential for a 'Beach Boys Anthology' Can you imagine a five DVD set of material? Seems a little late in the game for that now....
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 10, 2024 14:23:49 GMT -5
The Hawthorne CD is about the last thing made for the discerning long term fan. Everything else has been made for John Q Public. Iconic and Capitol have pretty much made it clear that we are not and never have been the target audience for their projects.
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Post by Awesoman on Apr 10, 2024 14:33:56 GMT -5
The Hawthorne CD is about the last thing made for the discerning long term fan. Everything else has been made for John Q Public. Iconic and Capitol have pretty much made it clear that we are not and never have been the target audience for their projects. I don't know; pretty sure it wasn't the public that were the primary focus of two expansive box sets ( Feel Flows and Sail On Sailor) detailing four of the band's lesser-known albums...
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 10, 2024 14:46:44 GMT -5
The Hawthorne CD is about the last thing made for the discerning long term fan. Everything else has been made for John Q Public. Iconic and Capitol have pretty much made it clear that we are not and never have been the target audience for their projects. I don't know; pretty sure it wasn't the public that were the primary focus of two expansive box sets ( Feel Flows and Sail On Sailor) detailing four of the band's lesser-known albums... I don’t know. Seems Iconic made it clear when they bought the catalog that they were going make the Brother catalog accessible to the public. Even Howie made that clear when he was defending the remixes and remasterings.
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Post by Awesoman on Apr 10, 2024 15:16:53 GMT -5
I don't know; pretty sure it wasn't the public that were the primary focus of two expansive box sets ( Feel Flows and Sail On Sailor) detailing four of the band's lesser-known albums... I don’t know. Seems Iconic made it clear when they bought the catalog that they were going make the Brother catalog accessible to the public. Even Howie made that clear when he was defending the remixes and remasterings. Sure, there was definitely an attempt to mainstream the band's lesser-known material. But they've actually re-released these albums multiple times since 2000 and have made a much better effort to include post-"Good Vibrations" material in everything they've released since then. This was the first time they went for expansive box sets filled with unreleased content that most of the public would likely be unfamiliar with and be geared more towards the diehards. And who do you think would be more likely to invest $100+ on a box set of lesser-known material, the casual public or the diehards?
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 10, 2024 15:30:38 GMT -5
I agree with you, but just to be clear, Iconic was not involved with the pre 2020 releases. Also, Iconic only has the Brother catalog. Sure, we diehards are the ones who are freely willing to spend our dollars on these boxsets, but they are not geared toward us, especially with sound and how the booklets were written. Howie’s presentation was for the general public. There was nothing of interest to this old fan.
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Post by Awesoman on Apr 10, 2024 17:04:11 GMT -5
I agree with you, but just to be clear, Iconic was not involved with the pre 2020 releases. Also, Iconic only has the Brother catalog. Sure, we diehards are the ones who are freely willing to spend our dollars on these boxsets, but they are not geared toward us, especially with sound and how the booklets were written. Howie’s presentation was for the general public. There was nothing of interest to this old fan.Really...? The first-ever official releases of the Carnegie Hall performance, a number of unreleased tracks including the long-requested "Carry Me Home", a number of live outtakes, alternative versions of various songs, and everything else included wasn't good enough...? What exactly were you expecting that these expansive box sets failed to deliver on? And even if Iconic had an intent in attracting the casual consumer, do you honestly think they'd even have any interest in material such as "Sweet & Bitter" or "Rooftop Harry"? Not trying to argue but to say that these two expensive and expansive box sets were geared primarily for the casual consumer (who likely is completely unfamiliar with the material to begin) over the diehard fans seems silly.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 10, 2024 17:39:41 GMT -5
I agree with you, but just to be clear, Iconic was not involved with the pre 2020 releases. Also, Iconic only has the Brother catalog. Sure, we diehards are the ones who are freely willing to spend our dollars on these boxsets, but they are not geared toward us, especially with sound and how the booklets were written. Howie’s presentation was for the general public. There was nothing of interest to this old fan.Really...? The first-ever official releases of the Carnegie Hall performance, a number of unreleased tracks including the long-requested "Carry Me Home", a number of live outtakes, alternative versions of various songs, and everything else included wasn't good enough...? What exactly were you expecting that these expansive box sets failed to deliver on? And even if Iconic had an intent in attracting the casual consumer, do you honestly think they'd even have any interest in material such as "Sweet & Bitter" or "Rooftop Harry"? Not trying to argue but to say that these two expensive and expansive box sets were geared primarily for the casual consumer (who likely is completely unfamiliar with the material to begin) over the diehard fans seems silly. I was talking about what Howie wrote, not the music.
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Post by Awesoman on Apr 10, 2024 17:49:27 GMT -5
Really...? The first-ever official releases of the Carnegie Hall performance, a number of unreleased tracks including the long-requested "Carry Me Home", a number of live outtakes, alternative versions of various songs, and everything else included wasn't good enough...? What exactly were you expecting that these expansive box sets failed to deliver on? And even if Iconic had an intent in attracting the casual consumer, do you honestly think they'd even have any interest in material such as "Sweet & Bitter" or "Rooftop Harry"? Not trying to argue but to say that these two expensive and expansive box sets were geared primarily for the casual consumer (who likely is completely unfamiliar with the material to begin) over the diehard fans seems silly. I was talking about what Howie wrote, not the music. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by sailor68 on Apr 10, 2024 18:33:41 GMT -5
the carnegie hall concert is heavily edited so yeah kinda disappointing
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west
Kahuna
Posts: 109
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Post by west on Apr 10, 2024 19:07:53 GMT -5
With all the information that we members on this board know of the band, it's just impossible for everything to get checked off of our own wish lists.
Elvis: The Searcher was what, a two-parter that equaled to probably a little over three hours? Do I think the Beach Boys band are deserving of an eight-part, Anthology-type doc? You better believe it! But I expect something a lot closer to the three hour mark Elvis got a few years ago. Like many, I am hoping for the best, but I'm just not expecting the best. And that's okay! I know that I will still devour this doc when it comes out next month, as will countless others.
It would've been a riot if this board had been around back in 1998 when Endless Harmony came out. "Did David really only just get thirty seconds of air time?" "Did Mike really just say that the Beach Boys 'meant so much because of the positivity, and that was me'?" "Did 'Barbara Ann' and 'TLGIOK' just get skipped over?" "Wait, did Mike just say that Brian was 'shattered, afraid, in his room and wouldn't come out', and we haven't even gotten to Wild Honey yet?" "Where are Blondie and Ricky?!?!?" "Of course nobody goes into detail on why Bruce left." "I was really hoping they'd talk about the Caribou days, but surely Pacific Ocean Blue is about to come up any second now..." I could go on and on, and I actually LOVE that documentary! It's what helped me get into this group in the first place, and I'm sure that 25 years from now, someone will say the same about this Disney doc.
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jasonkt
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 62
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Post by jasonkt on Apr 10, 2024 19:25:26 GMT -5
Not sure I like the poster. Bloody hell, that is hideous! Yeah, that poster is not great. The band wasn't always the hippest looking group around, but it seems like more often than not the dorkiest pictures are chosen for promotional items. They coulda found some images that make them look a little cooler.
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Post by AGD on Apr 11, 2024 2:14:39 GMT -5
I don’t know. Seems Iconic made it clear when they bought the catalog that they were going make the Brother catalog accessible to the public. Even Howie made that clear when he was defending the remixes and remasterings. Sure, there was definitely an attempt to mainstream the band's lesser-known material. But they've actually re-released these albums multiple times since 2000 and have made a much better effort to include post-"Good Vibrations" material in everything they've released since then. This was the first time they went for expansive box sets filled with unreleased content that most of the public would likely be unfamiliar with and be geared more towards the diehards. And who do you think would be more likely to invest $100+ on a box set of lesser-known material, the casual public or the diehards? Hardly "multiple times": all twice, except CATP, once.
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