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Post by rob3rtwilson1993 on Apr 26, 2023 2:29:42 GMT -5
In January 92 Dr Landy was ordered to separate from Brian's life as we all know but I'm still interested in what happened in the immediate instance. There's barely anything out there regarding Gene, Evan and Alexandra post 92, I know a member on this forum said they'd spoken to Alexandra before after Gene's death in 2006?
The only snippets I've read is that Landy was almost baffled and hurt at how it had all ended and the reality is he was out of pocket after the whole saga. He regained his licence I believe in Hawaii?
I've always wondered what happened to Brian in January 92, as Landy left did a new conservator take over straight away? I know Brian and Landy had trial separated throughout 91. There's a lot of articles online about the trial but nothing following the outcome.
Edit. Didn't Landy turn up to Brian's birthday in 92?
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Post by AGD on Apr 26, 2023 3:57:40 GMT -5
www.bellagio10452.com/1991.htmlLandy basically relocated to Hawaii after being told, legally, to get the hell out of Brian's life. He practiced there until his death. Jerome Billett became Brian's conservator before Melinda assumed that role for many years.
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Post by John Manning on Apr 26, 2023 4:49:31 GMT -5
“For many years” … Which begs the question, does he currently have a conservator?
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Post by AGD on Apr 26, 2023 4:59:40 GMT -5
No. Not in the strict sense
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Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 26, 2023 6:43:47 GMT -5
No offence to you Rob, but I couldn't care less what happened to Landy.
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joeblow
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Post by joeblow on Apr 26, 2023 13:29:58 GMT -5
In 2002 I was in Hawaii and looked up his office out of curiosity. It was nearby so I went and knocked on the door that said Dr. Eugene E. Landy. I have no idea what I would have said or done if someone had answered, but now in hindsight I guess I am thankful that nobody did.
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Post by jk on Apr 28, 2023 7:35:28 GMT -5
No offence to you Rob, but I couldn't care less what happened to Landy. You may have a point there, IHA. That said, while poking around Smiley as is my wont from time to time I discovered this hilarious anagram of Eugene Ellsworth Landy: serenely well-hung toad. Edit: on the subject of BB-related anagrams, who might "pal on my prick" be?
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Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 28, 2023 18:47:05 GMT -5
No offence to you Rob, but I couldn't care less what happened to Landy. You may have a point there, IHA. That said, while poking around Smiley as is my wont from time to time I discovered this hilarious anagram of Eugene Ellsworth Landy: serenely well-hung toad. Thanks, I now have a horrible image in my mind.
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Post by jk on May 3, 2023 3:45:34 GMT -5
In 2002 I was in Hawaii and looked up his office out of curiosity. It was nearby so I went and knocked on the door that said Dr. Eugene E. Landy. I have no idea what I would have said or done if someone had answered, but now in hindsight I guess I am thankful that nobody did. I recall seeing an advertisement for Landy's Hawaiian practice online long after his death. That was more than a little spooky. This may be of interest to some of you. And folks, no one is obliged to read it.
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Post by John Manning on May 3, 2023 4:03:18 GMT -5
In 2002 I was in Hawaii and looked up his office out of curiosity. It was nearby so I went and knocked on the door that said Dr. Eugene E. Landy. I have no idea what I would have said or done if someone had answered, but now in hindsight I guess I am thankful that nobody did. I recall seeing an advertisement for Landy's Hawaiian practice online long after his death. That was more than a little spooky. This may be of interest to some of you. And folks, no one is obliged to read it. Remarkable. Remind me what planet Landy came from?
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Post by Sam_BFC on May 3, 2023 8:30:57 GMT -5
Have been watching the miniseries The Shrink Next Door this week. Tale of similar but perhaps less bizarre and less severe overreach by psychiatrist/therapist. The tale of Landy really is wild. How was he able to practice in Hawaii in later years? Presumably his patients were not aware of past behaviours.
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Post by filledeplage on May 3, 2023 8:36:02 GMT -5
Have been watching the miniseries The Shrink Next Door this week. Tale of similar but perhaps less bizarre and less severe overreach by psychiatrist/therapist. The tale of Landy really is wild. How was he able to practice in Hawaii in later years? Presumably his patients were not aware of past behaviours. Unfortunately, most practice licenses are state-based.
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Post by dauber on May 3, 2023 10:22:56 GMT -5
This may be of interest to some of you. And folks, no one is obliged to read it.
Fascinating. Landy was involved in some mystery "BW" patient who had been part of a musical group since 1961. Wonder who that is...
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Post by Matt H on May 3, 2023 12:06:04 GMT -5
This may be of interest to some of you. And folks, no one is obliged to read it.
Fascinating. Landy was involved in some mystery "BW" patient who had been part of a musical group since 1961. Wonder who that is...
I have always wondered about the doctors that Landy got to prescribe the medications. Were any of them ever found to be negligible for anything? With the amount of drugs BW was on, it would see that they would have been guilty of something.
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bookofb
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Post by bookofb on May 3, 2023 13:14:32 GMT -5
Morally, ethically, guilty, yes, absolutely. But legally guilty in terms of criminal law or even liable under the more relaxed standards of civil court? Have to assume that that kind of guilt/liability would have been much harder to establish. We can easily imagine what the defense would be, something to do with acceptable medical and therapeutic standards/standard of care, paid expert testimony on behalf of the defedants, a defense strategy that would effectively blame/pathologize Brian (wrong), blame his parents/family/the Beach Boys org (not wrong), plus the visual evidence (e.g., before-and-after photos) establishing the efficacy of this treatment regime. And of course the overarching argument that all of this had to be done to "save Brian's life" - an argument which is patently ridiculous but is parroted time and time again in Beach Boys/BW commentary.
Landy was such a flgrantly awful person that it's easy, and very sensible, to point the finger solely at him - Gene, the outlier, the bad apple who stains the otherwise stellar field of clinical psychotherapy and medical psychiatry. Unfortunately, the reality about that profession is that these kinds of things happen to people. Abuses happened before Brian, and they are happening today en masse. Brian Wilson is not the only one. In fact, Gene Landy himself - his "method" of treatment and the "theories" upon which it was supposedly based - was specifically influenced by a certain notorious (to the extent he is remembered today) psychiatrist who, decades earlier, had been hailed as a healing genius of psychiatry, and who turned out to be yet another maniacal patient-abuser.
Clinical psychotherapy (Gene's field of practice) and medical psychiatry (Gene's dealer was an MD) are, theoretically, important and valid fields of inquiry. The problem is when people try to apply their theories in the real world, transferring theory into method. Stated differently, the problem is the human being, as Brian's experience with Landy illustrates. There's no doubt that Landy believed himself to be a good person, right to the very end.
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Post by Will/P.P. on May 3, 2023 13:30:00 GMT -5
More stranger to me is that Landy was allowed to continue his association with Brian. All of us who bought the original records have to put up with his name attached.
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Post by AGD on May 3, 2023 13:50:11 GMT -5
And of course the overarching argument that all of this had to be done to "save Brian's life" - an argument which is patently ridiculous but is parroted time and time again in Beach Boys/BW commentary.
In late 1982, Brian was 311lbs, smoking like a chimney and hoovering up every drug he could get his hands on. How much longer do you think he would have lasted ? The band must have been concerned enough to do the basically unthinkable and re-employ Landy. That they gave him carte blanche was utterly reprehensible.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 3, 2023 14:11:14 GMT -5
I believe part of the agreement between the musical group and Landy was that they would not interfere in Landy's treatment of B.W. They all saw what happened with B.W. after Landy's services were terminated at the end of 1976. The musical group did not want a repeat of that. (Landy insisted in B.W.'s "autobiography" that he had co-written songs with B.W. on "15 Big Ones" and "the musical group Loves You" but did not receive credit).
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Post by boogieboarder on May 3, 2023 15:13:27 GMT -5
. Landy insisted in B.W.'s "autobiography" that he had co-written songs with B.W. on "15 Big Ones" and "the musical group Loves You" but did not receive credit. I believe Landy wrote them. Many of those lyrics are so bad, I can’t imagine any one would want credit for them.
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bookofb
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Post by bookofb on May 3, 2023 16:06:43 GMT -5
And of course the overarching argument that all of this had to be done to "save Brian's life" - an argument which is patently ridiculous but is parroted time and time again in Beach Boys/BW commentary.
In late 1982, Brian was 311lbs, smoking like a chimney and hoovering up every drug he could get his hands on. How much longer do you think he would have lasted ? The band must have been concerned enough to do the basically unthinkable and re-employ Landy. That they gave him carte blanche was utterly reprehensible. What, to me, is ridiculous is the assumption - uncritically stated as a given, as "fact"- that Eugene Landy "saved Brian Wilson's life." My view of it is that we don't know what would have happened without Landy. It's, at best, possible that he "saved" him. It could be that Landy saved Brian's life, but it's far from certain, and what is, in any case, more certain is that he inflicted tremendous lasting damage and was already, from the start, an aggressively deranged man who injured people as a matter of course. We can also say with a fair degree of certainty, for what it's worth, that Brian Wilson has the physical constitution of an ox - the man simply didn't go down in spite of the punishment and abuse inflicted by many other people and also by himself. That such a person was at death's door - again, possible, and not unreasonable to make the claim. But again, to clarify, we don't know what would have happened had Landy stayed out of the picture.
Also, as you (perhaps inadvertently) allude in your comment, the proposition that Gene saved Brian's life lets a lot of people off the hook. Apologies if you didn't mean to say that. However, note that people being given "carte blanche" to injure Brian Wilson is the story of Brian's life - that's what occurred between Brian, Murry, and Audree in Hawthorne. The carte blanche aspect of the Landy deal is indeed reprehensible but note that it was just business-as-usual in Brian's life. Brian alludes to this in his book I Am Brian Wilson - he alludes to the possibility that what happened with Landy (generally, without getting into specifics) was the same as what had been happening long before Landy appeared on the scene.
Also, your comment seems to assume that the band's actions are an accurate gauge of the situation, because the band must necessarily have had Brian's best interests in mind. It's a fair point, but I would disagree with the idea that the band - the Beach Boys, the Wilson family - was ever really motivated by Brian Wilson's best interests. (leading to the difficult question of whether the collective family business was obligated, or should have been expected to care about Brian, or whether it was Brian's responsibility to do what is right for himself, consequences to the family be damned)
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Post by Al S on May 4, 2023 1:15:04 GMT -5
In 2002 I was in Hawaii and looked up his office out of curiosity. It was nearby so I went and knocked on the door that said Dr. Eugene E. Landy. I have no idea what I would have said or done if someone had answered, but now in hindsight I guess I am thankful that nobody did. I recall seeing an advertisement for Landy's Hawaiian practice online long after his death. That was more than a little spooky. This may be of interest to some of you. And folks, no one is obliged to read it. Sheesh, that was gruelling, in the unobligatory sense. I wonder how many of these kind of documents were piled up.
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Post by AGD on May 4, 2023 2:33:12 GMT -5
In late 1982, Brian was 311lbs, smoking like a chimney and hoovering up every drug he could get his hands on. How much longer do you think he would have lasted ? The band must have been concerned enough to do the basically unthinkable and re-employ Landy. That they gave him carte blanche was utterly reprehensible. What, to me, is ridiculous is the assumption - uncritically stated as a given, as "fact"- that Eugene Landy "saved Brian Wilson's life." My view of it is that we don't know what would have happened without Landy. It's, at best, possible that he "saved" him. It could be that Landy saved Brian's life, but it's far from certain, and what is, in any case, more certain is that he inflicted tremendous lasting damage and was already, from the start, an aggressively deranged man who injured people as a matter of course. We can also say with a fair degree of certainty, for what it's worth, that Brian Wilson has the physical constitution of an ox - the man simply didn't go down in spite of the punishment and abuse inflicted by many other people and also by himself. That such a person was at death's door - again, possible, and not unreasonable to make the claim. But again, to clarify, we don't know what would have happened had Landy stayed out of the picture.
Also, as you (perhaps inadvertently) allude in your comment, the proposition that Gene saved Brian's life lets a lot of people off the hook. Apologies if you didn't mean to say that. However, note that people being given "carte blanche" to injure Brian Wilson is the story of Brian's life - that's what occurred between Brian, Murry, and Audree in Hawthorne. The carte blanche aspect of the Landy deal is indeed reprehensible but note that it was just business-as-usual in Brian's life. Brian alludes to this in his book I Am Brian Wilson - he alludes to the possibility that what happened with Landy (generally, without getting into specifics) was the same as what had been happening long before Landy appeared on the scene.
Also, your comment seems to assume that the band's actions are an accurate gauge of the situation, because the band must necessarily have had Brian's best interests in mind. It's a fair point, but I would disagree with the idea that the band - the Beach Boys, the Wilson family - was ever really motivated by Brian Wilson's best interests. (leading to the difficult question of whether the collective family business was obligated, or should have been expected to care about Brian, or whether it was Brian's responsibility to do what is right for himself, consequences to the family be damned)
Nope - I'm sure there was some genuine concern, but I'm equally sure there were financial considerations: remember in fall 1982 the band were in considerable disarray both internally and with the record company. They needed Brian... or they thought they did. 1975/6 all over again. And yes, Brian had been taken advantage of many times before by pretty much everyone from his family through friends and collaborators to record companies. The thing that's always puzzled me is that, outside of the studio, he pretty much let it happen (and before anyone pipes up with "you have no idea what mental illness is like" - yes, I do, from both sides).
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Post by jk on May 4, 2023 5:01:11 GMT -5
This must surely have been mentioned many times before -- in which case, here we go again... Walking back from the shops this morning, I was suddenly struck by the facial similarity between Landy and Tarantino's equally charming arch-villain Hans Landa of the SS:
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Post by jds on May 10, 2023 13:13:09 GMT -5
In late 1982, Brian was 311lbs, smoking like a chimney and hoovering up every drug he could get his hands on. How much longer do you think he would have lasted ? The band must have been concerned enough to do the basically unthinkable and re-employ Landy. That they gave him carte blanche was utterly reprehensible. What, to me, is ridiculous is the assumption - uncritically stated as a given, as "fact"- that Eugene Landy "saved Brian Wilson's life." My view of it is that we don't know what would have happened without Landy. It's, at best, possible that he "saved" him. It could be that Landy saved Brian's life, but it's far from certain, and what is, in any case, more certain is that he inflicted tremendous lasting damage and was already, from the start, an aggressively deranged man who injured people as a matter of course. We can also say with a fair degree of certainty, for what it's worth, that Brian Wilson has the physical constitution of an ox - the man simply didn't go down in spite of the punishment and abuse inflicted by many other people and also by himself. That such a person was at death's door - again, possible, and not unreasonable to make the claim. But again, to clarify, we don't know what would have happened had Landy stayed out of the picture.
I will say with certainty that, absent Landy's intervention, Brian would have overdosed and killed himself, with the caveat that he may have merely turned himself into a vegetable dependent on 24 hour care. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but I don't know how many stories of Brian running off and drug-binging anyone needs to hear before reconciling themselves to that reality. His binges of the mid-70s and early-80s had already given him irreversible brain damage that significantly affected his speech and cognition (no matter how much people want to blame the entirety of the damage Brian did to himself on Landy's overmedicating.)
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Post by lonelysummer on May 10, 2023 13:45:30 GMT -5
What, to me, is ridiculous is the assumption - uncritically stated as a given, as "fact"- that Eugene Landy "saved Brian Wilson's life." My view of it is that we don't know what would have happened without Landy. It's, at best, possible that he "saved" him. It could be that Landy saved Brian's life, but it's far from certain, and what is, in any case, more certain is that he inflicted tremendous lasting damage and was already, from the start, an aggressively deranged man who injured people as a matter of course. We can also say with a fair degree of certainty, for what it's worth, that Brian Wilson has the physical constitution of an ox - the man simply didn't go down in spite of the punishment and abuse inflicted by many other people and also by himself. That such a person was at death's door - again, possible, and not unreasonable to make the claim. But again, to clarify, we don't know what would have happened had Landy stayed out of the picture.
I will say with certainty that, absent Landy's intervention, Brian would have overdosed and killed himself, with the caveat that he may have merely turned himself into a vegetable dependent on 24 hour care. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but I don't know how many stories of Brian running off and drug-binging anyone needs to hear before reconciling themselves to that reality. His binges of the mid-70s and early-80s had already given him irreversible brain damage that significantly affected his speech and cognition (no matter how much people want to blame the entirety of the damage Brian did to himself on Landy's overmedicating.) Fans are always looking for heroes and villains in the Beach Boys story; but sometimes the heroes are also the villains. Landy got Brian in physical shape again, got him making music again, then refused to let go. Carl spearheaded the effort to bring Landy back in 1982; then made the same effort to get the man and his team out of Brian's life in 1990.
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