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Post by Mikie on Apr 24, 2023 11:02:41 GMT -5
You know........looking in on Scott's Facebook page and the boatload of comments after his announcement about his departure, it makes you realize how much he was liked and also how many Beach Boys fans are out there. Of course that's not representative of ALL of the fans that are still out there in the world......but just a fraction of them.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 24, 2023 11:12:47 GMT -5
Say what you Will about Adrian, but at least the music him and Mike made together is fun and actually worth a listen… I can’t really say the same thing about unleash the love or 12 sides of summer or any of the other stuff Mike made in the last 20 years. Maybe so (maybe not), and that was over forty years ago but live he was an increasing liability. Also, not a team player. al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 24, 2023 11:16:59 GMT -5
Maybe so (maybe not), and that was over forty years ago but live he was an increasing liability. Also, not a team player. al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter. There is a difference between a founder/member/family with that type of status. Owner-operator. You are sitting at the corporate boardroom table with a vote. Those are/were BRI members. It is apples and oranges.
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 24, 2023 11:40:43 GMT -5
Maybe so (maybe not), and that was over forty years ago but live he was an increasing liability. Also, not a team player. al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter. Al, Dennis, and Brian could all sing in tune.
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Post by John Manning on Apr 24, 2023 12:40:50 GMT -5
Say what you Will about Adrian, but at least the music him and Mike made together is fun and actually worth a listen… I can’t really say the same thing about unleash the love or 12 sides of summer or any of the other stuff Mike made in the last 20 years. I see it differently. Hated Baker’s whiny, grating “falsetto” - far more suited to The Four Seasons; hints of Dean Torrence, too. Mike’s later albums were far better.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 24, 2023 12:57:32 GMT -5
When I think of Adrian Baker, I think of the Queen Mary Concert in July of 1981. But on a positive note, I always thought he did a helluva job on that "Don't Worry Baby/Happy Birthday Brian Wilson" single. Especially the B side:
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Post by AGD on Apr 24, 2023 13:10:01 GMT -5
Maybe so (maybe not), and that was over forty years ago but live he was an increasing liability. Also, not a team player. al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter. You have no idea what I'm talking about... or what you're talking about for that matter.
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Post by Chuck's rewind on Apr 24, 2023 13:28:37 GMT -5
al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter. You have no idea what I'm talking about... or what you're talking about for that matter. “Sorry Dad”.....
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Post by Mopp on Apr 24, 2023 14:09:36 GMT -5
Say what you Will about Adrian, but at least the music him and Mike made together is fun and actually worth a listen… I can’t really say the same thing about unleash the love or 12 sides of summer or any of the other stuff Mike made in the last 20 years. I see it differently. Hated Baker’s whiny, grating “falsetto” - far more suited to The Four Seasons; hints of Dean Torrence, too. Mike’s later albums were far better. Preferences are of course, personal, but I'd take Summertime City or Summertime Music over anything from his latest output.
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Post by monolithic on Apr 24, 2023 14:10:02 GMT -5
The 2004 shows with Randell replacing Baker were definitely an improvement, because Randell could sing. And vocally the band sounded great (other than the 2012 reunion shows, the best lineups of the group I've seen vocally were the 2004 one -- Mike/Bruce/Farmer/Randell/Scott/John -- and the 2014 one -- Mike/Bruce/Jeff/Randell/Scott/John). Kowalski was the only person on stage who actually couldn't play his instrument. I loved the shows at the time as a massive improvement (other than the drumming) on what I'd seen in 2001 and 2002. But it's notable listening back to recordings of them now how bad the instrumental arrangements are. Some of this, again, is Kowalski, whose drumming *style* as well as ability was utterly unsuited to the music -- he's all cowbell and tinking cymbals like he's playing in a lounge bar trying to sound vaguely Latin -- but everything's a wash of cheesy synth sounds and "that'll do" approximations of the chords. If you compare recordings of the 2008 tour, with very similar setlists and an almost-identical band but with Cowsill on drums and Scott as musical director while Christian took over Farmer's vocal parts, it's like night and day, there's just no comparison, even though I think Farmer was a better harmony singer than Christian. Some of this is just Mike stepping up to the competition from Brian's band (and I have to wonder if part of this change is because of Brian retiring from the road so that competitive pressure is no longer there) and taking a while to do so, with the 2004 shows being the beginning of the change. But a lot of it is because Scott and John really cared about getting the music *right*. Which is not to detract from Farmer as a musician, but I get the impression that he saw his job as "keep doing what's worked", and saw no need to fix the sloppy corner-cutting live arrangements the band had been doing since before he joined. Which is understandable -- if you go and see the current lineups of the Temptations or the Righteous Brothers or whoever you get a similar type of arrangement, and those shows are thoroughly enjoyable for what they are. And without having anything better from Mike's band to compare it to, the 2004 shows were hugely enjoyable. But there's a difference between good enough and great. The arrangements and instrumental performance under Farmer were good enough. Under Scott they were great. Sure, I wasn't directly comparing the two. There had been another post earlier in the thread where somebody had mentioned Mike's band pre-2008 being an embarrassment and I just wanted to point out that it wasn't as simple as: 2007=embarrassing/2008=wonderful.
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spaggy
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 64
Likes: 93
Favorite Album: 15 Big Ones
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Post by spaggy on Apr 24, 2023 14:18:10 GMT -5
al wasn’t a good team player either. Neither was Dennis. Or Brian for that matter. Al, Dennis, and Brian could all sing in tune. Could Dennis really sing in tune at the end there. Really. Honestly.
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spaggy
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 64
Likes: 93
Favorite Album: 15 Big Ones
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Post by spaggy on Apr 24, 2023 14:28:53 GMT -5
Why all the bake hate? Man had a mean falsetto in his prime, as well as a great ear for harmony and arrangements. His solo career is unrivaled amongst his touring peers. Give it a listen! If you can get out of your elitist towers and shed the pretension, that is
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Post by AGD on Apr 24, 2023 14:36:08 GMT -5
Ah, they're all coming out of the woodwork today.
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spaggy
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 64
Likes: 93
Favorite Album: 15 Big Ones
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Post by spaggy on Apr 24, 2023 14:40:02 GMT -5
Ah, they're all coming out of the woodwork today. I know, me and Andrew Hickey! An unlikely duo if there ever was one.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Apr 24, 2023 14:50:49 GMT -5
I think it's going to be hard to follow up Mike and Bruce's band after this last incarnation. I mean, at no point in the last 20 years have I thought, 'Oh Gee! I miss that Adrian Baker or that Mike Kowalski'..... They really pushed the bar up high, and had some amazing set lists to boot to match and equal some of Brian's best shows. Both camps there for a while were 'nose to nose' when it came to quality. Those 2000's into the 2010's were good sailing for Brian, and Mike brought his A game too. Both also brought in the deep cuts and satisfied the die hard in every fan I believe. But! It is now 2023, and Brian's outfit has slowly deteriorated and it's been an uphill battle working with a deteriorated and aging Brian. Losing some key members along the way didn't help the 'gel' of that great early band Brian assembled in the beginning. Mike and Bruce? It may be the last big 'shakeup' before we see Mike even taking the back seat, but who knows what it is store? I don't see Mike or Bruce retiring in a hurry, and as this rate, they could go on for another solid 5 - 10 years. Personally, in terms of sound, I'm more worried about them finding a drummer with the 'oomph' and 'energy' like Cowsill, or that Dennis Wilson fella. I always felt 'Kowalski' overplayed his part.
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 24, 2023 15:35:45 GMT -5
I'm not an expert on BB's backing band members, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kowalski a member during "The Carl Years"? If so, I find it surprising that Carl would tolerate an awful drummer (unless he was a blood brother). Was Figeroa (sp?) the other main drummer not named Dennis during "The Carl Years"? I tuned out on the touring band after Carl died; did see any Beach Boys concerts between 1998 and 2018. Partly because of the bad reviews they got. And partly because I was indignant Mike continued using the name after Carl died. Eventually my strong emotions gave way to ...mellowing out, man. Love the three concerts I saw in 2019, 2021, and 2022. I fear for the future. But it's gotta end some time. How old was Chuck Berry when he did his last concert? Little Richard? B.B. King? I see a future where a touring entity continues on as "The Music of the Beach Boys".
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Post by northcoast on Apr 24, 2023 15:38:27 GMT -5
My favorite Scott Totten moment was during the 50th anniversary at one of the soundchecks and I forget what song they were playing but Scott stopped it twice because someone was dropping the upper third of one of the harmonies. During a soundcheck. With about eight voices in his earpiece. Now that is dedication to perfection.
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 24, 2023 15:44:31 GMT -5
I'm not an expert on BB's backing band members, so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kowalski a member during "The Carl Years"? If so, I find it surprising that Carl would tolerate an awful drummer (unless he was a blood brother). Was Figeroa (sp?) the other main drummer not named Dennis during "The Carl Years"? Yep, Bobby Figueroa was the other one (and Ricky of course). Kowalski *was* in the band when Carl was, but was merely bad rather than godawful in the live recordings I've heard from then.
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 24, 2023 15:50:01 GMT -5
My favorite Scott Totten moment was during the 50th anniversary at one of the soundchecks and I forget what song they were playing but Scott stopped it twice because someone was dropping the upper third of one of the harmonies. During a soundcheck. With about eight voices in his earpiece. Now that is dedication to perfection. Yeah. Scott *paid attention*. To everything. The man has an unbelievable ear and an even more unbelievable dedication to getting the details right. One of the best things I've *ever* seen was a talk he gave on the cruise last year, basically explaining the job of a musical director and what he did on a day-to-day basis for a crowd who mostly don't know about this stuff. He was *riveting* even though I knew most of what he was saying, and did things like play us the multitrack recording he made of "Let Him Run Wild" where he sang all the parts so the band members could learn theirs. He talked about how he would OOPS stereo recordings to extract parts, that sort of thing, and you could clearly tell he was absolutely, totally, dedicated to the music and to getting it right.
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Post by AGD on Apr 24, 2023 17:25:08 GMT -5
Plus, he's one helluva nice guy. Cowsill too - the latter mad as a box of very mad frogs but always a joy to be with. Gonna miss them both, dearly.
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 24, 2023 17:35:44 GMT -5
Plus, he's one helluva nice guy. Cowsill too - the latter mad as a box of very mad frogs but always a joy to be with. Gonna miss them both, dearly. Very much this. Just astoundingly lovely people, both of them.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 24, 2023 17:56:28 GMT -5
Brian Eichenberger will fill the Musical Director role nicely. He not only sings lead vocals (especially BW's high parts) very well, he can play guitar, bass, and keys if called upon. He's a trained Jazz guy, and his experience includes 18 years of singing and arranging for The Four Freshmen and singing/playing with The Beach Boys for eight years. So Ike knows harmonies!
Plus, he's another all around nice guy. Very personable, and I asked him about those Four Freshmen 'Surfer Girl' videos on YouTube and he laughed and said, "I really like doing Beach Boys songs".
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 24, 2023 20:33:22 GMT -5
Why all the bake hate? Man had a mean falsetto in his prime, as well as a great ear for harmony and arrangements. His solo career is unrivaled amongst his touring peers. Give it a listen! If you can get out of your elitist towers and shed the pretension, that is I guess he just wasn’t made for those times
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 25, 2023 1:31:49 GMT -5
My favorite Scott Totten moment was during the 50th anniversary at one of the soundchecks and I forget what song they were playing but Scott stopped it twice because someone was dropping the upper third of one of the harmonies. During a soundcheck. With about eight voices in his earpiece. Now that is dedication to perfection. Yeah. Scott *paid attention*. To everything. The man has an unbelievable ear and an even more unbelievable dedication to getting the details right. One of the best things I've *ever* seen was a talk he gave on the cruise last year, basically explaining the job of a musical director and what he did on a day-to-day basis for a crowd who mostly don't know about this stuff. He was *riveting* even though I knew most of what he was saying, and did things like play us the multitrack recording he made of "Let Him Run Wild" where he sang all the parts so the band members could learn theirs. He talked about how he would OOPS stereo recordings to extract parts, that sort of thing, and you could clearly tell he was absolutely, totally, dedicated to the music and to getting it right. So Scott basically took on the role that used to be Carl's, correct?
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 25, 2023 1:33:22 GMT -5
Why all the bake hate? Man had a mean falsetto in his prime, as well as a great ear for harmony and arrangements. His solo career is unrivaled amongst his touring peers. Give it a listen! If you can get out of your elitist towers and shed the pretension, that is I guess he just wasn’t made for those times I always associate Baker with the awful Carl-less 1981 Beach Boys, and Mike's Endless Bummer Beach Band.
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