|
Post by AGD on Apr 5, 2023 6:43:39 GMT -5
Guess that answers my question: no, I can't post my opinion here.
|
|
|
Post by Micha on Apr 5, 2023 6:59:32 GMT -5
I'm so, so sorry. Two things I didn't realise: one, that I had to request your permission to post this... and two that I can't air my opinion of a BB-related matter on a BB forum. He asked you a question, man. How you can feel he implied those two things with his question is beyond me. Maybe my mind is not twisted enough. Show me the part of his post where he said what you accuse him of.
|
|
|
Post by Micha on Apr 5, 2023 7:03:01 GMT -5
Guess that answers my question: no, I can't post my opinion here. Nobody is coming after you for your opinion. You were not asked to stop posting videos of this AI guy. Those are two facts. We're just trying to help you.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 5, 2023 10:06:29 GMT -5
Yes, I meant my Mary Whitehouse comment affectionately. Its funny you keep coming back with more of them. If I'm honest, I've subscribed to the guys channel. Give Andrew a break and pile on me instead
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Apr 5, 2023 12:54:44 GMT -5
I'm so, so sorry. Two things I didn't realise: one, that I had to request your permission to post this... and two that I can't air my opinion of a BB-related matter on a BB forum. On this thread you're like Mary Whitehouse videotaping all four channels in search of a bare boob. Come on, it's funny The cavalcade of nostalgia from this one comment had me cracking up! 😂
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 5, 2023 13:00:22 GMT -5
Guy just doesn't know when to stop. Shark well and truly jumped in a classic example of "because I can". In this instance, replacing a perfectly acceptable BW vocal with something that sounds nothing like him. As for The Ronettes... if you hate this stuff so much why do you keep looking for more and posting it? I don’t understand. Hey, it annoys me to no end, yet I have to read this stuff. I only listened to All I Wanna Do and that was quite enough. I take my Beach Boys original.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 5, 2023 13:15:05 GMT -5
That's the downside of moderation I suppose. As I'm the only person championing this material, I'll try not to take your annoyance personally
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 5, 2023 13:22:18 GMT -5
That's the downside of moderation I suppose. As I'm the only person championing this material, I'll try not to take your annoyance personally Don’t get me wrong, the subject annoys me, not the members posting their opinions. As for AI and the Beach Boys, why screw around with perfection?
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 5, 2023 13:34:32 GMT -5
That's the downside of moderation I suppose. As I'm the only person championing this material, I'll try not to take your annoyance personally Don’t get me wrong, the subject annoys me, not the members posting their opinions. As for AI and the Beach Boys, why screw around with perfection? I should say I totally get why people feel that way. It's definitely an ethical minefield. I've long been into sampling and repurposing as part of my music making, and to me this fits right in with that. I've long fantasised about this sort of technology, so I find it really exciting. Also I work in music tech research, so its right up my alley so to speak. I also want to reiterate that its lovely to post on a board where dissenting opinions are tolerated, so thank you everyone!
|
|
|
Post by radiokingdom on Apr 5, 2023 13:46:48 GMT -5
I still have a strong emotional and aesthetic response to this, but I appreciate the varied thoughtful posts on this thread.
|
|
|
Post by boogieboarder on Apr 5, 2023 15:09:54 GMT -5
Don’t get me wrong, the subject annoys me, not the members posting their opinions. As for AI and the Beach Boys, why screw around with perfection? ... I also want to reiterate that it's lovely to post on a board where dissenting opinions are tolerated, so thank you everyone! As long as one doesn't mind being called names once in a while.
|
|
|
Post by Will/P.P. on Apr 5, 2023 15:22:51 GMT -5
I'm so, so sorry. Two things I didn't realise: one, that I had to request your permission to post this... and two that I can't air my opinion of a BB-related matter on a BB forum. I'm going to remember you said that.
|
|
|
Post by jk on Apr 5, 2023 15:48:59 GMT -5
... I also want to reiterate that it's lovely to post on a board where dissenting opinions are tolerated, so thank you everyone! As long as one doesn't mind being called names once in a while. Yes, a thick skin is essential around these parts!
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 5, 2023 17:42:17 GMT -5
... I also want to reiterate that it's lovely to post on a board where dissenting opinions are tolerated, so thank you everyone! As long as one doesn't mind being called names once in a while. You could call me AI Ron Horseapples
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Apr 5, 2023 17:44:49 GMT -5
I'm so, so sorry. Two things I didn't realise: one, that I had to request your permission to post this... and two that I can't air my opinion of a BB-related matter on a BB forum. I'm going to remember you said that. Good. Then I don't have to. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Micha on Apr 6, 2023 4:41:58 GMT -5
I can totally see why people find this despicable and they find this has nothing to do with honest art. I would though at least claim this is some kind of craft, even if the results in these videos are pretty bad. Probably in the future this will be another tool to create art, however.
I mean, when the Monkees started out, those songs were regarded by some as unlegitimate art, because other people created them for them. But someone has to be the artist at some point. I remember someone telling me the old animation movies were drawn by hand whereas today they are just made by a computer. This person did not realise it is still an art to make them.
I would appreciate if I could digitally make my voice sound like the 60s Beach Boys and then put vocals on the unfinished SMiLE tracks. But I also see the danger in it, there's a chance of terrible frauds, and people will use it to the harm and disadvantage of other people. In the worst case scenario it'll be a living hell in which you can't trust anything.
But we cannot stop it. I'm sure at some point in the future we will see biopics in which the actors don't only totally sound but also look like the original people they are portraying. And yet, it will be a form of art and craft to get as close to the originals.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Apr 6, 2023 8:58:35 GMT -5
I don't see why anyone would want erstaz Beach Boys when you can have the magnificent originals, like this utterly wonderful thing of pure joy and beauty:
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 6, 2023 10:40:35 GMT -5
I'm not biting, sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Sam_BFC on Apr 6, 2023 11:46:11 GMT -5
I don't see why anyone would want erstaz Beach Boys when you can have the magnificent originals, like this utterly wonderful thing of pure joy and beauty: Indeed. What if it were a choice between a half assed Brian vocal and erstaz classic Brian vocal?
|
|
|
Post by jds on Apr 6, 2023 12:14:22 GMT -5
AGI in any form is upscale regurgitation of content, for better or worse. It's ultimately no replacement for original content, though nothing about the marketplace tells me that anyone will know the difference. The industry will be able to spam gross sex music for decades with little, if any, artist involvement, but the producer's role will either be changed beyond recognition or abolished. The music I care about will be unaffected.
The Match Point video reminded me of how much heavy lifting Brian's "old" voice did in terms of a sort of providing the group with an undefinable charm, significantly upgrading even a middling tune like Match Point by virtue of his singing. There are parts where it doesn't sound so much like Brian and other parts where it captures subtle mannerisms in a way that would be lost on a human impersonator. I think the fake AI tracks are impressive and strange.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Apr 6, 2023 12:53:24 GMT -5
I don't see why anyone would want erstaz Beach Boys when you can have the magnificent originals, like this utterly wonderful thing of pure joy and beauty: Indeed. What if it were a choice between a half assed Brian vocal and erstaz classic Brian vocal? One would be the real thing, the other... wouldn't.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Apr 6, 2023 17:50:55 GMT -5
A shame it got down to a strawman argument of having to choose between real voices and AI. That was never anyone's position.
It was quite an interesting discussion before that!
|
|
|
Post by jk on Apr 7, 2023 14:07:01 GMT -5
A shame it got down to a strawman argument of having to choose between real voices and AI. That was never anyone's position. It was quite an interesting discussion before that! At least it has been a civilized discussion from start to finish.
|
|
robin
Kahuna
Posts: 116
Likes: 149
|
Post by robin on Apr 7, 2023 14:23:43 GMT -5
The person creating the AI tracks is apparently a long-time poster at Smiley Smile, where the response to his experiments has tilted in a different direction. And that's just how it's going to be with all this, I think: we will find ourselves in vastly different camps depending on how threatening the AI phenomenon strikes us as being. There's clearly a great potential for disingenuous, cynical and fraudulent usage of such tools, and that's undeniably creepy even to those who find the possibilities fascinating. We're going to need guidelines and protections from all kinds of potential abuses that can occur with AI; but what the SS guy has done is relatively benign in the sense that there's no attempt to defraud anyone. I don't think anyone wants to replace classic tracks that shimmer with the greatness of a "Little Girl I Once Knew," but with respect to the BBs there are certainly instances where vocal work that suffers in comparison to the band's vocal prowess up to, say, the mid-70s is ripe for such experimentation. Some will embrace it, and others will recoil from it, with another group taking various "on the fence" postures. The subject obviously never came up, but I can imagine my Dad being at least interested to hear some AI applied to various tracks from the later 70s LPs that he found so frustrating. As with the often controversial remixes we've heard in recent times, AI reworkings aren't going to sever anyone's access to the original recordings. We can choose to engage or disengage as we see fit. But AI is here to stay, and somehow human beings are going to have to find a way to keep it operating within reasonable, recognizable human parameters. What's being done with these tracks is clearly just the tiniest tip of the iceberg. "The world keeps turning/And we're all learning..."--learning about just how much faster things are moving around us, all of which makes "good timing" even more elusive than how it's described in the song of the same name. I think all we can say to Andrew is: "Hold On, Dear Brother"!
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 7, 2023 14:40:14 GMT -5
A shame it got down to a strawman argument of having to choose between real voices and AI. That was never anyone's position. It was quite an interesting discussion before that! I don’t know what you’re getting at here? Once the video appeared replacing Mike’s lead vocal on All I Wanna Do with an AI Brian, then that became part of the overall conversation. I understand that AI can have some positive things come from it, but it sure didn’t take long for the negative type stuff to start appearing too. On Twitter, videos of AI politicians spouting false statements. As AI improves, it is going to fool a lot of folks watching. “Is it real or is it Memorex”?
|
|