zkinard
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Post by zkinard on Feb 22, 2023 12:40:30 GMT -5
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Post by Mark on Feb 22, 2023 15:51:03 GMT -5
The quality on a normal CD player will be the same as you’re used to. Different CD issues sound different of course and I can’t speak to this release specifically. I would imagine somewhere like the Hoffman forum might have that particular answer. But in short no different than CD on a normal CD player. The ‘Hybrid’ on the front sticker means the disc has two layers, one for CD players and one for SACD players or whatever the other format is. |
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Post by Al S on Feb 23, 2023 4:31:31 GMT -5
The debate rages over SACD (which is high def @ 24 bit/88.2khz) vs Redbook (which is the CD standard; 16 bit/44.1 khz), and if one format sounds better than the other (a debate that inevitably strays into the nebulous due to myriad variables; like the quality of your playback equipment, the amount and consistency of abuse you've subjected your ears too while they've been in your care, the gravitational influence of Haley's Comet etc).
The key consideration is the quality of the mastering which if good will shine through despite the format - and this is indeed a masterfully mastered media, by Kevin Grey, who has garnered considerable acclaim for his mastering skills.
In my opinion, this edition presents the best digital format mastering (thus far) of both the original mono (believed to be from a copy Steve Hoffman made of an original master) and of Mark L's stereo mix.
I am a mono or original mix diehard, but for me the presentation of the stereo mix on this edition is quite an amazing, almost tactile experience - like a umami infusion into your favourite dish (custard included).
If it's a reasonable price and your preference be for physical media, grab it - or if you to listen to HD presentations but don't want to buy an SACD compatible player (which you'll need to do), you can get HD digital downloads of this mastering from Analogue Productions website (I think).
Your mileage may vary, but I don't think you'll be disappointed (unless you are a born grumpy MoFo).
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Post by Awesoman on Feb 23, 2023 8:04:45 GMT -5
I think most Sony CD/DVD/Blu-ray/4k players are automatically compatible with SACD but it should specify this on the box. It's a pretty niche market at this point since the casual listener has gravitated away from most physical media and more towards digital/streaming.
Alternatively there are online digital media stores such as HDTracks and Qobuz that allow you to download these albums digitally at different audio qualities including formats that are technically superior to SACD.
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Feb 23, 2023 17:58:26 GMT -5
There seems to be a bit of confusion here.
The OP is asking about the 2012 MoFi SACD, which was mastered by Rob LoVerde. Analogue Productions released their SACD in 2015, mastered by Kevin Gray.
The 16/44.1 Red Book CD standard is good enough for my ears. IMO, what matters is the source and the actual mastering – not the format/bit depth/samples per second/whatever. I doubt many people can tell the difference between a standard CD and a SACD in a blind test if both contain the same mastering.
According to the Dynamic Range DB, the MoFi has the highest DR value.
Get the MoFi if you want some more dynamics and less processed sound compared to the 1997/2001/2012/2016 masterings found on the Capitol CDs. The Analogue Productions SACD is also worth your attention. It has similar dynamics to the MoFi but is less bright and is probably my personal choice.
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Post by Al S on Feb 23, 2023 19:53:44 GMT -5
Opps, my bad!!! I should learn to read more better.
The Rob LoVerde mastered MFSL is great. It was my go to until the Analogue Productions Kevin Grey item (as mentioned above) pushed it to the archive shelf.
The MFSL is $100 whereas you can get the Analogue Production SACD for $30 US.
The other consideration is the packaging - the MOFI packing is a nifty digisleeve and contains a removable booklet with Linnet and Leaf liner notes and additional photos (ie, Zoo shoot shots) lifted from the Sessions box, and the disc is bedded in a soft protective cover, like a liddle nappy.
The AP SACD is somewhat spartan in approach - 4 page booklet (eg, 1 double sided cover slip folded in half to make 4 pages) with edition notes and the album artwork) in a jewel case.
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Post by Al S on Feb 23, 2023 21:32:52 GMT -5
I think most Sony CD/DVD/Blu-ray/4k players are automatically compatible with SACD but it should specify this on the box. It's a pretty niche market at this point since the casual listener has gravitated away from most physical media and more towards digital/streaming. Alternatively there are online digital media stores such as HDTracks and Qobuz that allow you to download these albums digitally at different audio qualities including formats that are technically superior to SACD. Great advice. The other thing with SACDs is if you do want to rip the high def tracks in order to "archive" (or because you're not into streaming or d/l'ing) it's a bit of a process and you need to own a specific player or Sony PS3 model to do the work (the rip process is available due to an exploit of specific chipsets, don't ask me, google it if you're interested). |
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chrisb
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Post by chrisb on Feb 25, 2023 9:32:12 GMT -5
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zkinard
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Posts: 13
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Post by zkinard on Mar 1, 2023 10:44:33 GMT -5
Thanks all who replied to my OG post. Great leads here. I'll likely pick up a copy of the Analogue Productions cd at some point soon, but in the meantime I signed up for trials of Quboz and Tidal (hires) streaming services and gotta say, they are both pretty spectacular to my ears esp. the stuff available on Tidal at their highest res. Both offer free 30 day trials and Tidal offers an extension of the 30-day trial to 60-days for just $4 whihc I took advantage of. A bit off topic but spent a lot of time listening to some of my fav jazz albums and in particular jazz guitar stuff. Man oh man these sound great on this service. Hearing lots that I hadnt heard previously on my vinyl copies (allof which are at least VG+ graded) and worlds better than the Spotify stream. I love Spotify but considering a switch to Tidal.
Thanks again good people.
Zach
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Post by Awesoman on Mar 2, 2023 8:07:25 GMT -5
I think most Sony CD/DVD/Blu-ray/4k players are automatically compatible with SACD but it should specify this on the box. It's a pretty niche market at this point since the casual listener has gravitated away from most physical media and more towards digital/streaming. Alternatively there are online digital media stores such as HDTracks and Qobuz that allow you to download these albums digitally at different audio qualities including formats that are technically superior to SACD. Great advice. The other thing with SACDs is if you do want to rip the high def tracks in order to "archive" (or because you're not into streaming or d/l'ing) it's a bit of a process and you need to own a specific player or Sony PS3 model to do the work (the rip process is available due to an exploit of specific chipsets, don't ask me, google it if you're interested). Yeah it definitely is a hassle to rip the SACD portion of a disc. I do recall there is a method to extract the SACD 20-bit information off of the disc using your PC DVD drive and without the need for a Sony player though. I think the process basically rips the hifi audio and supposedly converts the 20-bit signal to a 24-bit format my computer plays nice with. I tried it years ago with one of the Beach Boys CDs that Mark Linett had confirmed had an SACD layer to it and by all accounts it seemingly worked but it's hard to say. 🤷♂️ It might be a better idea to bypass SACD altogether and roll with a 24-bit format that you can easily find online. As much as it pains me as something of an audiophile to say this, but dabbling in higher end audio tends to involve a lot of effort with little payoff. It ultimately requires a device that is compatible with the higher format along with some quality speakers to really make the most of it, and even then it's not always guaranteed that you'll notice a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Plus all the higher end fidelity in the world won't save a bad mix or remastering. And the naked human ear even at peak conditions can't completely process the frequencies of standard redbook audio at 44.1khz. So maybe higher end audio might be something of a gimmick. |
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Post by Al S on Mar 2, 2023 23:43:41 GMT -5
Great advice. The other thing with SACDs is if you do want to rip the high def tracks in order to "archive" (or because you're not into streaming or d/l'ing) it's a bit of a process and you need to own a specific player or Sony PS3 model to do the work (the rip process is available due to an exploit of specific chipsets, don't ask me, google it if you're interested). Yeah it definitely is a hassle to rip the SACD portion of a disc. I do recall there is a method to extract the SACD 20-bit information off of the disc using your PC DVD drive and without the need for a Sony player though. I think the process basically rips the hifi audio and supposedly converts the 20-bit signal to a 24-bit format my computer plays nice with. I tried it years ago with one of the Beach Boys CDs that Mark Linett had confirmed had an SACD layer to it and by all accounts it seemingly worked but it's hard to say. 🤷♂️ It might be a better idea to bypass SACD altogether and roll with a 24-bit format that you can easily find online. As much as it pains me as something of an audiophile to say this, but dabbling in higher end audio tends to involve a lot of effort with little payoff. It ultimately requires a device that is compatible with the higher format along with some quality speakers to really make the most of it, and even then it's not always guaranteed that you'll notice a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Plus all the higher end fidelity in the world won't save a bad mix or remastering. And the naked human ear even at peak conditions can't completely process the frequencies of standard redbook audio at 44.1khz. So maybe higher end audio might be something of a gimmick. LOL, the law of diminishing returns. Nice info about the 20 bit layer on SACD - I know the 00 twofers and beyond (for a while) were encoded as HDCD, where-by you could some how squeeze the equivalent 20 bits of data into onto a 16 bit stream via a bag of digital magical tricks; and you could punch them out as 24 bit files via Foobar, or playback directly using a version of Windows Media Player (because Microsoft bought out the tech at some stage). Ah, the memories of hours wasted chasing the dragon. |
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Post by carllove on Mar 3, 2023 7:39:43 GMT -5
Zach, If you want a CD of Pet Sounds that will make your toes tingle, I would recommend the DCC gold CD mastered by Steve Hoffman. The first time I played it in my car, I just about had a wreck, I was so blown away (I sort of forgot I was driving!) It’s every bit as great sounding as my Stereo AP 45 Rpm Vinyl of Pet Sounds. It’s also half the price of that SACD you reference from eBay. I have not heard that SACD from AP - but if it sounds anything like the Stereo AP 45, it is probably pretty awesome as well. Hard to go wrong with AP. |
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Post by Awesoman on Mar 3, 2023 8:39:57 GMT -5
Yeah it definitely is a hassle to rip the SACD portion of a disc. I do recall there is a method to extract the SACD 20-bit information off of the disc using your PC DVD drive and without the need for a Sony player though. I think the process basically rips the hifi audio and supposedly converts the 20-bit signal to a 24-bit format my computer plays nice with. I tried it years ago with one of the Beach Boys CDs that Mark Linett had confirmed had an SACD layer to it and by all accounts it seemingly worked but it's hard to say. 🤷♂️ It might be a better idea to bypass SACD altogether and roll with a 24-bit format that you can easily find online. As much as it pains me as something of an audiophile to say this, but dabbling in higher end audio tends to involve a lot of effort with little payoff. It ultimately requires a device that is compatible with the higher format along with some quality speakers to really make the most of it, and even then it's not always guaranteed that you'll notice a dramatic improvement in sound quality. Plus all the higher end fidelity in the world won't save a bad mix or remastering. And the naked human ear even at peak conditions can't completely process the frequencies of standard redbook audio at 44.1khz. So maybe higher end audio might be something of a gimmick. LOL, the law of diminishing returns. Nice info about the 20 bit layer on SACD - I know the 00 twofers and beyond (for a while) were encoded as HDCD, where-by you could some how squeeze the equivalent 20 bits of data into onto a 16 bit stream via a bag of digital magical tricks; and you could punch them out as 24 bit files via Foobar, or playback directly using a version of Windows Media Player (because Microsoft bought out the tech at some stage). Ah, the memories of hours wasted chasing the dragon. Actually now that you mentioned it I think I was confusing HDCD with SACD. (I forgot about the HDCD format. 😖) HDCD is the 20-bit flavor and SACD is something else entirely. So please disregard what I said before. |
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zkinard
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Post by zkinard on Mar 3, 2023 10:33:11 GMT -5
Do you have link to the DCC disc that I could check out? Sounds great.
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Post by Al S on Mar 3, 2023 18:53:28 GMT -5
Do you have link to the DCC disc that I could check out? Sounds great. Start hitting up eBay or Discogs - www.discogs.com/sell/release/1928638?ev=rb - 1993 release and DCC itself no longer exists, ie out of print. The original DCC owner wrapped it up and then opened up a company called Audio Fidelity who also cranked out a well regarded Pet Sounds CD release in '09. Again, hit up eBay or Discogs, as Audio Fidelity s-bended a few years ago. I have the Audio Fidelity, and the Analogue Prod is sonically better (by 1.3%, when the wind's in the east) imo. |
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