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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 18, 2022 15:57:00 GMT -5
My lasting feeling upon listening to the 3-CD set is just... bafflement. I honestly cannot fathom what Mark, Alan and co are doing nor why quality control has gone so haywire over the last two years. I understand releasing a version of SMiLE on The SMiLE Sessions that aligns with BWPS and using 21st century digital wizardry to achieve this. I understand releasing the Wild Honey album in stereo even if a little modern-day tinkering was required. I understand offering fans a cappella mixes, alternate versions and demos. I understand all of that, and I'm very, very, very appreciative of it. But what I don't understand is taking a song that has sounded great for 60 years - Surfin' Safari - and purposefully making it sound as bad as it does on Sounds of Summer. I don't understand sucking all the life out of You Need a Mess of Help. I don't understand making Let Us Go On This Way sound so reverb-heavy and unpleasant (an 'abomination' as someone not inaccurately described it on the Hoffman board, where this set is currently taking a well-deserved thrashing). I don't understand adding a load of distracting hiss to Baby Blue. I don't understand the ungodly mess that is Marcella. In short, I don't understand taking superb-sounding songs that were written and produced by pop geniuses and screwing around with them to make them sound infinitely worse. Fair enough, if these bizarre experiments were being presented as bonus tracks on a copyright extension release (akin to that weird Celebrate the News on the Feel Flows box-set) then it wouldn't be so bad, but they're being presented as the definitive works. Sure, there are some good/great-sounding tracks on Sounds of Summer, but the bad stuff is just so bad - and so, dare I say it, disrespectful to the originals - that it overwhelms the good. If the CATP tracks represent what we can expect from the CATP/Holland box-set, and represent how Carry Me Home is going to be treated, then... I'm out. My ears and heart can't take it. The disappointment might just kill me. Oh, and in case Howie or whoever wants to dismiss me as a grumpy pensioner who doesn't understand the youth of today, I'm still in my 30s (just), I've been passionately listening to the Beach Boys since I first discovered them in my teens, and I think every Mark Linett-produced archive release prior to Feel Flows sounded utterly outstanding regardless of where and how it was listened to. It’s because Brian, Chuck Britz, Steven Desper, Stephen Moffitt, Carl, Dennis, Bruce etc were clearly amateurs who had no idea what they were doing and had/have no clue what 23 year olds in 2022 demand sonically and it’s about time someone came along and righted the ship. If you'd told me two years ago that 'produced by Mark Linett' would become as foreboding a production credit as 'produced by Joe Thomas', I'd have thought you were mad. But after Feel Flows and now this, I'm genuinely filled with nothing but apprehension and dread for the CATP/Holland box-set. What on earth has happened? And is there any realistic chance of a return to the production quality as heard on pre-Feel Flows archive releases?
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 18, 2022 16:08:46 GMT -5
Howie made it very clear, it is aimed toward pulling in the the 22 year old demographic, not us diehards or us old timer's. The younger demographic are likely to stream it and that doesn't help sales for the physical release. That is a valid point. My kids have Spotify, so I do completely get that. I can’t see that many of them going to get the physical released sets. Those who buy vinyl, maybe. But I’m confused about whether and why the physical release is in a similar format. But I don’t know the technical aspects of the process and only what sounds good or not, to me. When you stream it is a cash cow. When you buy a download, or physical package, you’re done. So it is continuing revenue for the stream sites. Aren’t there royalties with each play, at least to the unions like ASCAP or is it pre-pay deal they way they sell packages to restaurants and bars?
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 18, 2022 16:22:15 GMT -5
It’s because Brian, Chuck Britz, Steven Desper, Stephen Moffitt, Carl, Dennis, Bruce etc were clearly amateurs who had no idea what they were doing and had/have no clue what 23 year olds in 2022 demand sonically and it’s about time someone came along and righted the ship. If you'd told me two years ago that 'produced by Mark Linett' would become as foreboding a production credit as 'produced by Joe Thomas', I'd have thought you were mad. But after Feel Flows and now this, I'm genuinely filled with nothing but apprehension and dread for the CATP/Holland box-set. What on earth has happened? And is there any realistic chance of a return to the production quality as heard on pre-Feel Flows archive releases? Well, in the past it was a matter of servicing the original “intention” as Desper puts it and maybe making the fidelity a little subjectively better but retaining the essence of the original work. But now it seems personal crusade has been inserted. This will not end well.
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Post by jasonaustin on Jun 18, 2022 16:42:44 GMT -5
Problem is it doesn’t sound like they put a lot of work into them. For example, the stereo remix of Surfin’ Safari. It’s riddled with digital artifacts and sounds downright horrible as many have pointed out on the official Beach Boys Youtube channel. Listen for Mike’s vocals at 1:54. They accidentally removed parts of his lead vocals and then it suddenly pops up mid-sentence. How on earth could this pass QC? Did anyone actually listen to it before putting it out? Had this been a release by, say, the Beatles people would’ve been furious. It sounds shoddy and amateurish and this is a big-budget Capitol release. It is possible to do these things right. Check out the mp3 sample of Eric Records’ stereo mix of Surfin’ Safari here (track 24): www.ericrecords.com/htf_jb_60-65.htmlEverybody here should take a minute out of their day and listen to the sound sample at the link gigantiskpyjamas provided for us. The label behind these first-time stereo remixes of classic oldies, Hit Parade, are the absolute business when it comes to this stuff. When I said in an earlier post that extraction technology "isn't all the way there yet", I had momentarily forgotten about all the fine work that these people are doing. Seriously, just listen and compare to the Sounds of Summer version-- and then realize that they've put out seven volumes worth of mono-to-stereo extraction mixes of this quality. It can be done.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 18, 2022 16:52:37 GMT -5
Problem is it doesn’t sound like they put a lot of work into them. For example, the stereo remix of Surfin’ Safari. It’s riddled with digital artifacts and sounds downright horrible as many have pointed out on the official Beach Boys Youtube channel. Listen for Mike’s vocals at 1:54. They accidentally removed parts of his lead vocals and then it suddenly pops up mid-sentence. How on earth could this pass QC? Did anyone actually listen to it before putting it out? Had this been a release by, say, the Beatles people would’ve been furious. It sounds shoddy and amateurish and this is a big-budget Capitol release. It is possible to do these things right. Check out the mp3 sample of Eric Records’ stereo mix of Surfin’ Safari here (track 24): www.ericrecords.com/htf_jb_60-65.htmlEverybody here should take a minute out of their day and listen to the sound sample at the link gigantiskpyjamas provided for us. The label behind these first-time stereo remixes of classic oldies, Hit Parade, are the absolute business when it comes to this stuff. When I said in an earlier post that extraction technology "isn't all the way there yet", I had momentarily forgotten about all the fine work that these people are doing. Seriously, just listen and compare to the Sounds of Summer version-- and then realize that they've put out seven volumes worth of mono-to-stereo extraction mixes of this quality. It can be done. Surfin’ Safari sounds really nice. I’m thinking of making the purchase tonight. They did a very nice job with Be True To Your School, as well. Derry Fitzgerald who has done work on a few Beach Boys songs, worked on these stereo extractions.
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Post by jasonaustin on Jun 18, 2022 17:15:00 GMT -5
>>Surfin’ Safari sounds really nice. I’m thinking of making the purchase tonight. They did a very nice job with Be True To Your School, as well. Derry Fitzgerald who has done work on a few Beach Boys songs, worked on these stereo extractions.<< I've bought three of them so far-- Hard to Find Jukebox Classics 1963-64, Hard to Find Jukebox Classics 1960-64 and Hard to Find Jukebox Classics: The Fifties-- and would definitely recommend all three. Not all of their extraction mixes are perfect, and you can still pick up artifacts on occasion if you're listening intently enough, but overall the sound quality is remarkable and very true to how records were mixed for stereo back in the day. I can't imagine you'd be disappointed with your purchase.
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Post by AGD on Jun 18, 2022 17:27:54 GMT -5
So it is continuing revenue for the stream sites. Aren’t there royalties with each play, at least to the unions like ASCAP or is it pre-pay deal they way they sell packages to restaurants and bars? The streaming royalty rate is legendarily pitiful. For example, on average Spotify pay between $0.003 and $0.005 per play. Thus, at the "higher" rate, it's 200 streams to get a dollar. The band's most streamed song there is "Wouldn't It Be Nice", at 386,538,989 to date. That equates to $1,932,695. On the other hand, "From There To Back Again" has generated the princely sum of $8,125.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 18, 2022 17:49:09 GMT -5
So it is continuing revenue for the stream sites. Aren’t there royalties with each play, at least to the unions like ASCAP or is it pre-pay deal they way they sell packages to restaurants and bars? The streaming royalty rate is legendarily pitiful. For example, on average Spotify pay between $0.003 and $0.005 per play. Thus, at the "higher" rate, it's 200 streams to get a dollar. The band's most streamed song there is "Wouldn't It Be Nice", at 386,538,989 to date. That equates to $1,932,695. On the other hand, "From There To Back Again" has generated the princely sum of $8,125. Thanks for that. Wow, that is something. I tried to take a quick glance today on youtube with the numbers of times each track was played for the new release. It is not difficult if they come up in a horizontal strip and you can just click across with a remote. What a business model to have to pay so little per play! Most of the local restaurants either buy a music package because it is considered a type of broadcast, if larger than an old kitchen radio, (not a Bose Wave, either) when the reps come around, or someone behind the bar hooks up their iPhone to the sound system with their favorite play lists.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 18, 2022 21:10:11 GMT -5
Seen a couple videos about the set popping up on YouTube, all which pretty much back up what most people have been saying:
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 21:55:38 GMT -5
Here's my story. I picked up my gal and we drove to Sunset Beach North of Huntington as per the instructions of Surfin USA. We listened to the new Beach Boys album and we were very happy. The music gave us great joy. That's the end of the story.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 18, 2022 22:17:58 GMT -5
Here's my story. I picked up my gal and we drove to Sunset Beach North of Huntington as per the instructions of Surfin USA. We listened to the new Beach Boys album and we were very happy. The music gave us great joy. That's the end of the story. Glad you like the sound of it. No one has any complaints about the songs themselves, just the sonics of some of them. The songs that were not remixed sound pretty good for the most part. Did they use previous remasters (2000 or 2009) of the Sunflower and Surf’s Up tracks? They don’t sound like the Feel Flows remasters?
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 19, 2022 0:37:42 GMT -5
If you'd told me two years ago that 'produced by Mark Linett' would become as foreboding a production credit as 'produced by Joe Thomas', I'd have thought you were mad. But after Feel Flows and now this, I'm genuinely filled with nothing but apprehension and dread for the CATP/Holland box-set. What on earth has happened? And is there any realistic chance of a return to the production quality as heard on pre-Feel Flows archive releases? Well, in the past it was a matter of servicing the original “intention” as Desper puts it and maybe making the fidelity a little subjectively better but retaining the essence of the original work. But now it seems personal crusade has been inserted. This will not end well. They're really going to town on promoting it, as they did with Feel Flows, which means it is likely to sell well. This is good, obviously, but what isn't good is if they take that as validation of what they're doing to the music. Because what they're doing to the music is akin to adding CGI to 2001: A Space Odyssey or giving the Mona Lisa lip fillers.
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Post by AGD on Jun 19, 2022 1:46:24 GMT -5
Did they use previous remasters (2000 or 2009) of the Sunflower and Surf’s Up tracks? They don’t sound like the Feel Flows remasters? Not sure: the credits state "engineered and mastered by Mark Linett at Your Place Or Mine Recording", but there's no date.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 19, 2022 2:36:36 GMT -5
Seen a couple videos about the set popping up on YouTube, all which pretty much back up what most people have been saying: The second video is so stupid. Some people are testing the tracks with music software. You know what... I'm testing it with my ears. It makes me laugh... all this stupidity!
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 19, 2022 2:59:14 GMT -5
Seen a couple videos about the set popping up on YouTube, all which pretty much back up what most people have been saying: The second video is so stupid. Some people are testing the tracks with music software. You know what... I'm testing it with my ears. It makes me laugh... all this stupidity! The 'music software' does actually say a lot about the music. You obviously have not had a lot to do with digital recording/editing/mixing/mastering? It's a very in depth way of showing what you are hearing in a lot of detail. It's far from 'stupidity', it's only that if you don't understand it. But your right, if your ears are serving you well, go by those, and leave the technical stuff to the technical people that can read it very well.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 19, 2022 3:40:57 GMT -5
The second video is so stupid. Some people are testing the tracks with music software. You know what... I'm testing it with my ears. It makes me laugh... all this stupidity! The 'music software' does actually say a lot about the music. You obviously have not had a lot to do with digital recording/editing/mixing/mastering? It's a very in depth way of showing what you are hearing in a lot of detail. It's far from 'stupidity', it's only that if you don't understand it. But your right, if your ears are serving you well, go by those, and leave the technical stuff to the technical people that can read it very well.
That confirm what I think... if you need a software to know if what you hear is good to your ear, that's your problem. But it really makes me laugh! Technical people... ha!Ha!ha! All those music doctors... so fun!
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Post by John Manning on Jun 19, 2022 3:46:54 GMT -5
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 19, 2022 4:21:13 GMT -5
The 'music software' does actually say a lot about the music. You obviously have not had a lot to do with digital recording/editing/mixing/mastering? It's a very in depth way of showing what you are hearing in a lot of detail. It's far from 'stupidity', it's only that if you don't understand it. But your right, if your ears are serving you well, go by those, and leave the technical stuff to the technical people that can read it very well.
That confirm what I think... if you need a software to know if what you hear is good to your ear, that's your problem. But it really makes me laugh! Technical people... ha!Ha!ha! All those music doctors... so fun! Ha ha, that’s great mustomax. We need to have more fun! The Beach Boys are fun. Fun in the sun! Anyway, using ”music software” is an educational tool and a way to illustrate things for people who might not be familiar with audio related issues. That being said, it’s only waveforms. They won’t tell you much. The point of the video is to use your ears and listen to the comparisons. The uploader could have used any image (a panda, a red bus, a cheese, whatever) — you’re supposed to listen and compare, not look at a specific image. If you enjoy the remixes please continue to enjoy them. Nothing wrong with that! We are all different and like different things. Vive la différence!
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Post by mustomax on Jun 19, 2022 6:38:03 GMT -5
That confirm what I think... if you need a software to know if what you hear is good to your ear, that's your problem. But it really makes me laugh! Technical people... ha!Ha!ha! All those music doctors... so fun! Ha ha, that’s great mustomax. We need to have more fun! The Beach Boys are fun. Fun in the sun! Anyway, using ”music software” is an educational tool and a way to illustrate things for people who might not be familiar with audio related issues. That being said, it’s only waveforms. They won’t tell you much. The point of the video is to use your ears and listen to the comparisons. The uploader could have used any image (a panda, a red bus, a cheese, whatever) — you’re supposed to listen and compare, not look at a specific image. If you enjoy the remixes please continue to enjoy them. Nothing wrong with that! We are all different and like different things. Vive la différence! Ha ha ha fun fun fun. People who only want to listen or appreciate music and sounds doesn't need at all those doctor music things. So fun!
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Post by jk on Jun 19, 2022 6:44:24 GMT -5
The second video is so stupid. Some people are testing the tracks with music software. You know what... I'm testing it with my ears. It makes me laugh... all this stupidity! The 'music software' does actually say a lot about the music. You obviously have not had a lot to do with digital recording/editing/mixing/mastering? It's a very in depth way of showing what you are hearing in a lot of detail. It's far from 'stupidity', it's only that if you don't understand it. But you're right, if your ears are serving you well, go by those, and leave the technical stuff to the technical people that can read it very well. This.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 19, 2022 6:50:35 GMT -5
Did they use previous remasters (2000 or 2009) of the Sunflower and Surf’s Up tracks? They don’t sound like the Feel Flows remasters? Not sure: the credits state "engineered and mastered by Mark Linett at Your Place Or Mine Recording", but there's no date.
most of the marketing material stated that all 80 tracks were newly remastered.
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Post by sixtiesstereo on Jun 19, 2022 9:18:40 GMT -5
>>Surfin’ Safari sounds really nice. I’m thinking of making the purchase tonight. They did a very nice job with Be True To Your School, as well. Derry Fitzgerald who has done work on a few Beach Boys songs, worked on these stereo extractions.<< I've bought three of them so far-- Hard to Find Jukebox Classics 1963-64, Hard to Find Jukebox Classics 1960-64 and Hard to Find Jukebox Classics: The Fifties-- and would definitely recommend all three. Not all of their extraction mixes are perfect, and you can still pick up artifacts on occasion if you're listening intently enough, but overall the sound quality is remarkable and very true to how records were mixed for stereo back in the day. I can't imagine you'd be disappointed with your purchase. Glad the Hit Parade version of "Surfin' Safari" has ben mentioned since it's as good as it's ever sounded. I buy all new Hit Parade releases as they come out, and the new first time stereo on them is usually jaw dropping. They did the best spectral stereo mix of "I Get Around" I've ever heard. It's track 24 on this CD: link
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bbfinfl
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Post by bbfinfl on Jun 19, 2022 9:29:43 GMT -5
Absolutely brilliant! Being both an old fan since the 70s and a technophile, this is incredible. Overall sound quality and mastering right on. Song selection brilliant- including Worms, Can’t Wait, San Miguel and others which could turn causal listeners on the great deep stuff. Baby Blue shimmers, All I Want to Do rocks, and the remixes bring out many long hidden parts. And I can still play the great originals if I want. A huge shout out and thanks to everyone that made this happen! Also, check out the Boyd/Linnet podcast- very interesting.
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Post by Mikie on Jun 19, 2022 10:14:23 GMT -5
Seen a couple videos about the set popping up on YouTube, all which pretty much back up what most people have been saying: The second video is so stupid. Some people are testing the tracks with music software. You know what... I'm testing it with my ears. It makes me laugh... all this stupidity! I turned it off less than halfway through the first video. This joker hadn't even received the set yet and he reviewed it anyway. It's already taken up too much real estate on this thread. Reminds me of one of those dumb "Unboxing" videos.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 19, 2022 10:33:54 GMT -5
Seen a couple videos about the set popping up on YouTube, all which pretty much back up what most people have been saying: Just the 2nd video. It is Howie in his own words, declaring his own intent. 1) he says they got screwed. Agree 100% - you are preaching to the choir in real time. We surely could have used your monastic zeal in the 70s. 2) he says that journalists don’t re-write history. But “he” is going to. Seriously? No, history is fixed. The tapes/reels are in cases/cans; blessed and sanctified, by the likes of Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Bruce and David, and “The Stephens.” Among others. 3) As a journalist, you get to do the sourced “investigative” journalism homework (or get some hungry interns) among the print and electronic media and find out “who, how and why” the Brian smearing-happened, and the band in general. It is not too late to find out why they were blackballed. Make those people “eat-their-words-with-a-fork-and-spoon.” Make it like Brian having his Music grade changed from an F to an A. You have that power to correct those grades. 4) Talk to people who took photos at the college concerts, that landed in college yearbooks, and get their impressions of the crowd love for the music that came to their school. They are not all dead. You get to “correct the record” for posterity sort of like an op-ed in a newspaper or online site. That is a position of enormous power, (if you use it) in case you have not noticed. Going forward, you could address, with particularity, exactly “who done it,” and did it rise to industry blackballing. No playing patty cake with them. See Fred Vail. Find out why and show them why they were wrong. It will be like solving a crime, because it was a crime for that generation of fans. “I’m gonna re-write history.” No, you’re not. Seriously. You get to tell those paid hacks that they were wrong and why and find out if they were paid-off (or who got favors or other kinds of press influence for another band) to write a hit-piece. You get the job of setting the record straight. No one is picking on you, Howie. Who says that? “I’m gonna re-write history.” The music does not need fixing for streaming posterity. For that paltry sum they get “per play?” Some of the blackballing seems to be linked to the late 60s, with all the mixed signals over Smile so they sought successful refuge in Europe. You generally had to almost apologize or not tell your friends you were a big fan.(in terms of being a “favorite” as compared to other bands once I was hooked) No, I never apologized. Music that made me (and generations) think and be contemplative. Pet Sounds. [Something similar happened to Eartha Kitt after making political comments about the Vietnam War, at the White House (no less) and she went to Europe and rode it out there, coming back after it had all passed. (Sound familiar?)] So, we know there was “an event” that caused the blackballing. It sounds also similar to what happened to Macca - which turned out to be an inside job. Now, bygones are bygones. That truth is out. The relationships were repaired because the band aid was ripped off, and there was healing. Theirs needs to be, as well, and the job of a good journalist. The archived music is fixed, both for copyright, as well as for posterity. Andrew broke down the shockingly-poor streaming revenues. Why would there be these commentaries/analyses, that are not all positive, as they have been in the past with box sets, mostly released for copyright protection; (and we are joyous to have them) it begs the question as to why the releases include both LPs and CDs as well as my lazy download, why is the strategy, to “contort” the tracks released, tailored to streaming customers? Or, am I missing something? I would not agree with some who call some tracks “unlistenable” some don’t sound as full and rich as other versions - I grew up with a suitcase phonograph with a 2” speaker. I don’t know the difference - looking at something that looks like an EKG readout. It is beyond me. That’s why I never took Statistics. But, having lived this in real-time in college, grad and post-grad, it is quite something, when any person says that they is going to re-write (unless it was poorly expressed off-the-cuff) the history that I am/we are a minuscule part of, as record purchasers and concert goers, along with many of my peers. Bad move to even indirectly, dismiss “boomers,” even younger ones. We got the right vote to 18 in 1972, (the band helped with that effort) and no one is “re-writing” that. Our band/s are performing in their 80s to thrilled audiences, and new markets such as country, as the flavor-of-the-month, adding to the classical release (now that is pure) in 2018. They are still working, moving forward, and not sitting at a beach, in lounge chairs.
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