petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 3,215
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Post by petsite on Jun 17, 2022 22:30:14 GMT -5
I am being picky I know. Old man hasn't had his nap today.
But W-H-Y with all of the care they put into these new mixes did they have to cut off the first part of Carl's "I I I" at the start of Good Vibrations. It sounded clipped on the stream that was done a month ago. Its way worse on the CD. I mean, COME ON! It's not that hard. I ripped the CD and then I fixed it. Yeah Bob, why are you bitching, you fixed it. I am bitching because I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO FIX IT!
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Post by Awesoman on Jun 17, 2022 22:44:12 GMT -5
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but "Rock & Roll Music" appears to be a new mix too. It borrows heavily from the extended version found on MIC but it omits the last verse that the 2012 version contained. 🤷♂️
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 17, 2022 22:58:44 GMT -5
I wonder if Desper’s heard any of this …..
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Post by debonbon on Jun 17, 2022 23:39:08 GMT -5
Surfin’ Safari’s sound field is nuts, it’s passable but not great. A few songs have mixing that is half cool, half why? Other than that I’m digging the new takes on these songs and it’s great to actually hear the bass.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 3,215
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Post by petsite on Jun 17, 2022 23:45:34 GMT -5
My overall impression (having listened to about a minute of each track, some all of the way through) is not bad at all. The newer mixes are ok. They do "pop" and might excite younger listeners.
But this "we are young you are old boomer go away" has got to stop. This may sound like the revisionist ramblings of an old man, but what I am about to say is really true. When I was young, I REVERED what the older generations had done. I would sit with my Dad and Grandpa and listen ad nauseum to their stories etc.
When I would listen to the Beach Boys with others my age, there was always a lot of second guessing about why the group did this or that. The record companies pushed fake stereo shit in the 1970s that use to drive me crazy. ENDLESS SUMMER, SPIRIT OF AMERICAN and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS to name a few. And when I would play mono versions of those tracks, SOME friends preferred the fake stereo, especially out of speakers (vs headphones) because it was "spacious". I still remember (no kidding) fist raising in the air saying YES YES YES when I got my first copy of Pet Sounds which was the Warner re-issue and it saying so proudly and defiantly "THIS RECORDING IS PRESSED IN MONOPHONIC SOUND, THE WAY BRIAN CUT IT." It was only later that I found out that was Carl's verbiage that he said needed to be on the cover.
So yes, call me an undefiant person, or a rebel that likes to go against what is happening currently. I never even did drugs, not even pot. And one of the big reasons was EVERY BODY else was doing and always saying come on, be cool. I wasn't cool. But I now realize it was cool to be uncool. At least that is what I tell myself LOL!
I mean, we don't look at the Mona Lisa and think WOW, IF WE ONLY REDID THE DRESS AND GIVE HER BLOND HAIR, SHE WOULD BE BANGING! But some would.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 18, 2022 0:25:45 GMT -5
It sounded ace on 15 Big Ones. Everything since then has only made it sound worse, to my ears. The Feel Flows version was, frankly, unlistenable. Metal Machine Music is unlistenable, nothing on Feel Flows is. My ears tell me otherwise.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 18, 2022 0:34:10 GMT -5
“Metal Machine Marcella” is more like it.
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Post by jasonaustin on Jun 18, 2022 2:34:13 GMT -5
Well, folks, I had a chance today to sit down with my trusty Sennheisers and A/B the new Sounds of Summer mixes against their Analogue Productions/ HD Tracks counterparts. I assigned a quick star rating of 1-5 for each new song based on how it stacked up against the original mix as well for overall listenability.
First, a disclaimer about my personal preferences: generally speaking, I am not down with the expanded bass on the 2021 remixes. See, in my opinion, mixing isn't as simple as just boosting the bass to improve an old recording. That's because different instruments in a mix are constantly competing for space. If you bring up the lows, you're sacrificing other information. Instrumental and vocal parts that were once clear become buried under the rumble. Modern producers realize this and work around these limitations-- that's why a lot of modern dance and pop music tends to alternate kick drum and bass notes instead of layering them, for example. But the Beach Boys were never really about this-- particularly on the early recordings where only the upper registers of the bass instruments and kick drum were intended it be audible in the final mix. Yes, they got into working with sub-bass around the time of Surf's Up, but there was a plan in place to ensure that those low tones didn't conflict with the rest of the performance. By simply saying, "boost the bass", in essence you are disrespecting the effort the band and their engineers put into making sure the finished output sounded listenable and well-balanced.
That said, if you're under orders to enhance the bass response on a project like this, there's a right way to do it that's called judicious use of EQ at the mastering stage. Now granted, I'm a purist, so I'm guessing if they'd let me mix, master and compile this album, they would have sent me back to do it over, because my goal would have been to submit something in line with what the creators originally envisioned. But then again, I don't buy the boosted bass = younger listeners line of reasoning. Kids that are into Da Baby and L'il Nas X typically aren't going to like the Beach Boys no matter how you mix them (at least not at this stage of their listening lives) and the sensitive kids that are into the band's music probably all own turntables and are currently on Discogs looking for Artisan pressings of Sunflower. But what do I know?
Anyway, I don't mean to come off as entirely negative. Remixing this many songs must have been a hurculean effort, and it's obvious that a tremendous amount of attention was paid by the engineers to clarity. A lot of these mixes sound really pristine-- they're just not for me for the reason I've stated.
Mix ratings upon first listen (source is 16 bit 44K FLAC files):
5 Stars: Little Deuce Coupe (original stereo mix was perfect on this) | Sloop John B | Do You Like Worms? (finally in stereo!) | Vegetables | Little Bird | Sail On, Sailor | Everyone's in Love with You | The Night Was So Young (Best thing on the album - close to the MIC remaster, but even cleaner) | Good Timin'
4 Stars: Surfin' U.S.A. | Farmer's Daughter (more like a 3.5) | In My Room | Fun, Fun, Fun | Warmth of the Sun | When I Grow Up | Kiss Me, Baby | You're So Good to Me | Let Him Run Wild | Barbara Ann | Wouldn't It Be Nice? | Wasn't Made for These Times | Wind Chimes (bass in left channel is a bit overpowering) | Darlin' | Aren't You Glad? | Friends (the original stereo mix is a little bit wonky, but lovely remastering) | All I Want to Do | I Went to Sleep | Long Promised Road | Disney Girls | All This Is That | California Saga | Come Go with Me | Baby Blue (would've been a 5, but I can't unhear that tape hiss on Carl's vocal) | Goin' On | Getcha Back | Where I Belong | Kokomo
3 Stars: Shut Down | Surfer Girl (nice, except for extra loud bass) | Be True to Your School (this will never be an audiophile's dream no matter what you do to it) | Don't Worry, Baby | Pom Pom Playgirl (another wonky original stereo mix) | All Summer Long (close to a 3.5) | Dance, Dance, Dance | Good to My Baby | California Girls (decent, may up to a 4) | Rhonda | God Only Knows (a little muddy-- maybe just the recording) | Good Vibrations ("...clothes she wearS!") | I Can Hear Music | Time to Get Alone | This Whole World | Feel Flows | 'Til I Die | Surf's Up (these Surf's Up tracks have their own inherent issues with the recording) | Rock & Roll Music (MIC version sounds better to me, even though it's the same mix) | It's OK
2 Stars: I Get Around (why is Brian's falsetto moving all around the stereo spectrum?) | Wendy | Do You Wanna Dance? (distortion, tympani buried) | Devoted to You (everything just way too compressed-- this song needs to breathe!) |Heroes & Villains (another one that will never be an audiophile's dream) | Wild Honey | Let the Wind Blow (noise reduction on piano intro kills it) | Do It Again (MIC version is superior) | Can't Wait Too Long (odd editing, too much bass) | San Miguel (can't unhear the castanets ever since somebody pointed them out) | Cotton Fields (timing on Al's intro vocal is way off) | Forever (acoustic guitars way too bright for my taste) | Susie Cincinnati | Add Some Music | It's About Time (Sunflower stuff lacks mids in general) | Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again (prefer MIC once again) | Marcella | California Feelin' (I don't like the Brian intro and Carl's vocal sounds weird. Why not just remaster the all-Carl version?)
1 Star: Surfin' Safari (extraction technology just ain't there yet) | Girl, Don't Tell Me (duophonic?) | All I Wanna Do | Mess of Help (that piano) | Let Us Go On
So there you have it. Overall, I still definitely recommend everybody go out and buy a copy. It's cool to have all these alternate mixes in one place, and there's enough here that's new that you'll want to revisit it even after the hype dies down.
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Post by Al S on Jun 18, 2022 3:01:46 GMT -5
Nice job, Jase - keep ‘em comin’ everyone, naysayers or yaysayers alike, alone or otherwise, all opinions welcome!
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Post by AGD on Jun 18, 2022 6:39:05 GMT -5
My CDs were delivered at 9.45 this morning. Alas, I'm working to 10pm, but tomorrow afternoon will be a listening fest.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 18, 2022 7:30:13 GMT -5
My overall impression (having listened to about a minute of each track, some all of the way through) is not bad at all. The newer mixes are ok. They do "pop" and might excite younger listeners.
But this "we are young you are old boomer go away" has got to stop. This may sound like the revisionist ramblings of an old man, but what I am about to say is really true. When I was young, I REVERED what the older generations had done. I would sit with my Dad and Grandpa and listen ad nauseum to their stories etc.
When I would listen to the Beach Boys with others my age, there was always a lot of second guessing about why the group did this or that. The record companies pushed fake stereo shit in the 1970s that use to drive me crazy. ENDLESS SUMMER, SPIRIT OF AMERICAN and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS to name a few. And when I would play mono versions of those tracks, SOME friends preferred the fake stereo, especially out of speakers (vs headphones) because it was "spacious". I still remember (no kidding) fist raising in the air saying YES YES YES when I got my first copy of Pet Sounds which was the Warner re-issue and it saying so proudly and defiantly "THIS RECORDING IS PRESSED IN MONOPHONIC SOUND, THE WAY BRIAN CUT IT." It was only later that I found out that was Carl's verbiage that he said needed to be on the cover.
So yes, call me an undefiant person, or a rebel that likes to go against what is happening currently. I never even did drugs, not even pot. And one of the big reasons was EVERY BODY else was doing and always saying come on, be cool. I wasn't cool. But I now realize it was cool to be uncool. At least that is what I tell myself LOL!
I mean, we don't look at the Mona Lisa and think WOW, IF WE ONLY REDID THE DRESS AND GIVE HER BLOND HAIR, SHE WOULD BE BANGING! But some would.
Why undefiant? Other people like it. Howie loves it. I actually really like The Night Was So Young.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 18, 2022 7:37:11 GMT -5
“Metal Machine Marcella” is more like it. Hahahaha
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Post by mikedonn on Jun 18, 2022 7:38:57 GMT -5
So far I've listened to most of CD1. I'm enjoying the more prominent bass and, with imperfect hearing, Surfin Safari doesn't bother me!
However, I did seem to notice a few vocal dropouts here and there. Also, the snare lacks the 'crack' it normally has on Surfer Girl (Those vintage Stereo Mixes for SG and LDC albums always seemed great to me!).
Looking forward to hearing the rest.
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Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 18, 2022 10:02:42 GMT -5
I have listened to a lot of it. I think the new mixes are interesting, with a lot of new sounds and intricate things to be heard in the songs. However, I don’t know if it is good to have new listeners hear these iconic songs for the first time in new mixes that in many cases sound much different than the original songs. I would rather see something like a 60th anniversary new remixes album or something like that, and release a compilation with the songs as the original creators intended. Just my opinion!!
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 18, 2022 10:19:37 GMT -5
The remastered “Night was so young” sounds absolutely fantastic. I cannot get over how good it sounds.
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Post by Awesoman on Jun 18, 2022 11:30:45 GMT -5
I have listened to a lot of it. I think the new mixes are interesting, with a lot of new sounds and intricate things to be heard in the songs. However, I don’t know if it is good to have new listeners hear these iconic songs for the first time in new mixes that in many cases sound much different than the original songs. I would rather see something like a 60th anniversary new remixes album or something like that, and release a compilation with the songs as the original creators intended. Just my opinion!! In all honesty I highly doubt these remixes and slightly tweaked versions are in any way a detriment to any neophyte who gives this compilation a spin. We're all a bunch of diehards in this forum and we're going to nitpick over any changes we hear good or bad. Even if we agree that the mastering can be a little shrill here and there and some of these new reimagined mixes sound different, I really doubt newbies are going to notice or even care. It seems with this compilation the goal was to put something together that acts as an entry gate down the rabbit hole for onboarding fans while simultaneously offering something new for the curmudgeonly old diehards like us. I think for the most part the team behind this nailed it pretty well.
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Post by Steve Mayo on Jun 18, 2022 11:44:18 GMT -5
I feel exactly the same way. Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park. Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways. Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer.
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Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 18, 2022 12:18:12 GMT -5
I feel exactly the same way. Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park. Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways. Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer. Agreed! I’m not saying they are bad. They put a lot of work into them. I am enjoying them.
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Post by esqeditor on Jun 18, 2022 12:53:34 GMT -5
Very bizarre release. I can’t figure out who it’s for. And why disguise it as a compilation that already came out years ago? Why?!? Why not just put out a “The Beach Boys: Remixed” thing and be honest with what it is? Us hardcores would probably eat that up, but again: who is this geared toward? Folks who tossed the original Sounds Of Summer in the shopping cart while in the checkout line at Wal-Mart who forgot that they have the old one when they see the new one the very same check out line? Will hipsters at Amoeba who think The Beach Boys are malt shop memories fall for this cheesy cover art they’ve already seen in their parents CD collection? Will weird new mixes fool them into thinking this is cool music and not the forever nerdy and complex and fascinating Beach Boys many of them already love? It’s like someone tore apart your bedroom when you were away but taped all the broken pieces back together nearly perfectly but the room somehow just feels all wrong. Howie made it very clear, it is aimed toward pulling in the the 22 year old demographic, not us diehards or us old timer's. The younger demographic are likely to stream it and that doesn't help sales for the physical release.
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Post by esqeditor on Jun 18, 2022 12:57:21 GMT -5
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 18, 2022 13:02:44 GMT -5
I feel exactly the same way. Just listened to the set. I like it for easy listening or background music while doing other things. I think for the average listener they will like it. I believe that is who this new edition is aimed at. Most won’t know about old mixes or even care. If this new edition turns more people onto the beach boys catalog so much the better. If this was the goal then i think mark, alan and howie hit it out of the park. Sometimes fans can over analyze something to death. The set sounds good. If one doesn’t like a mix replace it with one you do. But for the average person this set sounds good. Hope it turns more people on to the beach boys and they start exploring the catalog. That is the ultimate goal anyways. Thank you mark, alan and howie. I love the new sounds of summer. Agreed! I’m not saying they are bad. They put a lot of work into them. I am enjoying them. Problem is it doesn’t sound like they put a lot of work into them. For example, the stereo remix of Surfin’ Safari. It’s riddled with digital artifacts and sounds downright horrible as many have pointed out on the official Beach Boys Youtube channel. Listen for Mike’s vocals at 1:54. They accidentally removed parts of his lead vocals and then it suddenly pops up mid-sentence. How on earth could this pass QC? Did anyone actually listen to it before putting it out? Had this been a release by, say, the Beatles people would’ve been furious. It sounds shoddy and amateurish and this is a big-budget Capitol release. It is possible to do these things right. Check out the mp3 sample of Eric Records’ stereo mix of Surfin’ Safari here (track 24): www.ericrecords.com/htf_jb_60-65.html
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Post by Mikie on Jun 18, 2022 13:23:08 GMT -5
Agreed! I’m not saying they are bad. They put a lot of work into them. I am enjoying them. How on earth could this pass QC? Did anyone actually listen to it before putting it out? Had this been a release by, say, the Beatles people would’ve been furious. It sounds shoddy and amateurish and this is a big-budget Capitol release. Exactamundo.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 18, 2022 13:24:18 GMT -5
My lasting feeling upon listening to the 3-CD set is just... bafflement. I honestly cannot fathom what Mark, Alan and co are doing nor why quality control has gone so haywire over the last two years.
I understand releasing a version of SMiLE on The SMiLE Sessions that aligns with BWPS and using 21st century digital wizardry to achieve this.
I understand releasing the Wild Honey album in stereo even if a little modern-day tinkering was required.
I understand offering fans a cappella mixes, alternate versions and demos.
I understand all of that, and I'm very, very, very appreciative of it.
But what I don't understand is taking a song that has sounded great for 60 years - Surfin' Safari - and purposefully making it sound as bad as it does on Sounds of Summer.
I don't understand sucking all the life out of You Need a Mess of Help.
I don't understand making Let Us Go On This Way sound so reverb-heavy and unpleasant (an 'abomination' as someone not inaccurately described it on the Hoffman board, where this set is currently taking a well-deserved thrashing).
I don't understand adding a load of distracting hiss to Baby Blue.
I don't understand the ungodly mess that is Marcella.
In short, I don't understand taking superb-sounding songs that were written and produced by pop geniuses and screwing around with them to make them sound infinitely worse.
Fair enough, if these bizarre experiments were being presented as bonus tracks on a copyright extension release (akin to that weird Celebrate the News on the Feel Flows box-set) then it wouldn't be so bad, but they're being presented as the definitive works.
Sure, there are some good/great-sounding tracks on Sounds of Summer, but the bad stuff is just so bad - and so, dare I say it, disrespectful to the originals - that it overwhelms the good.
If the CATP tracks represent what we can expect from the CATP/Holland box-set, and represent how Carry Me Home is going to be treated, then... I'm out. My ears and heart can't take it. The disappointment might just kill me.
Oh, and in case Howie or whoever wants to dismiss me as a grumpy pensioner who doesn't understand the youth of today, I'm still in my 30s (just), I've been passionately listening to the Beach Boys since I first discovered them in my teens, and I think every Mark Linett-produced archive release prior to Feel Flows sounded utterly outstanding regardless of where and how it was listened to.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 18, 2022 13:52:41 GMT -5
My lasting feeling upon listening to the 3-CD set is just... bafflement. I honestly cannot fathom what Mark, Alan and co are doing nor why quality control has gone so haywire over the last two years. I understand releasing a version of SMiLE on The SMiLE Sessions that aligns with BWPS and using 21st century digital wizardry to achieve this. I understand releasing the Wild Honey album in stereo even if a little modern-day tinkering was required. I understand offering fans a cappella mixes, alternate versions and demos. I understand all of that, and I'm very, very, very appreciative of it. But what I don't understand is taking a song that has sounded great for 60 years - Surfin' Safari - and purposefully making it sound as bad as it does on Sounds of Summer. I don't understand sucking all the life out of You Need a Mess of Help. I don't understand making Let Us Go On This Way sound so reverb-heavy and unpleasant (an 'abomination' as someone not inaccurately described it on the Hoffman board, where this set is currently taking a well-deserved thrashing). I don't understand adding a load of distracting hiss to Baby Blue. I don't understand the ungodly mess that is Marcella. In short, I don't understand taking superb-sounding songs that were written and produced by pop geniuses and screwing around with them to make them sound infinitely worse. Fair enough, if these bizarre experiments were being presented as bonus tracks on a copyright extension release (akin to that weird Celebrate the News on the Feel Flows box-set) then it wouldn't be so bad, but they're being presented as the definitive works. Sure, there are some good/great-sounding tracks on Sounds of Summer, but the bad stuff is just so bad - and so, dare I say it, disrespectful to the originals - that it overwhelms the good. If the CATP tracks represent what we can expect from the CATP/Holland box-set, and represent how Carry Me Home is going to be treated, then... I'm out. My ears and heart can't take it. The disappointment might just kill me. Oh, and in case Howie or whoever wants to dismiss me as a grumpy pensioner who doesn't understand the youth of today, I'm still in my 30s (just), I've been passionately listening to the Beach Boys since I first discovered them in my teens, and I think every Mark Linett-produced archive release prior to Feel Flows sounded utterly outstanding regardless of where and how it was listened to. It’s because Brian, Chuck Britz, Steven Desper, Stephen Moffitt, Carl, Dennis, Bruce etc were clearly amateurs who had no idea what they were doing and had/have no clue what 23 year olds in 2022 demand sonically and it’s about time someone came along and righted the ship.
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sockit
Grommet
Posts: 32
Likes: 49
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Post by sockit on Jun 18, 2022 14:16:07 GMT -5
Man, I am really on the fence with this whole thing. From the beginning I've been asking myself, do I need anything that this set has to offer? I don't really see anything "new" on it other than a lot of noodling with the mixes and mastering. I've already got my go-to releases of each of these songs. But being an open-minded fellow I am willing to at least look into this comp to see (and hear) if I might find some new go-to's.
I've been lurking on these pages for the past week, and so far I agree with many of the impressions given by other posters here. This morning I listened (in studio grade headphones) to the half dozen or so tracks I could find on YouTube (making sure not to confuse them with the original SOS tracks put up 5 years ago). Here are my initial thoughts:
Surfin' Safari - Interesting to hear things split up. One positive note that hits home with me is that there is plenty of separation. It seems like remixing in general has been going for more of a narrow field in the past few years. I like the wider stereo, as it has a more authentic 60s sound (as long as it's within reason). Unfortunately in the case of Surfin' Safari, I suspect that this wider mixing is why we're hearing those pesky artifacts in the left channel. Fixing one issue may be creating another. Just a thought.
Time to Get Alone - This is the original mix, no? The reason I ask, is that I believe this was remixed once for a comp, and I couldn't stand it because of added digital reverb. I'm so glad that version wasn't used here. It sounds really good from what I could hear.
Baby Blue - I'm speculating that the annoying hiss is the result of the vocal being E.Q.ed in such a shrill manner. It makes my ears hurt (and once again let me point out--pro headphones!) Absolutely gorgeous song ruined by some treacherous sonics.
And that brings me to my biggest apprehension with this release. It sounds like another mixed bag of WTF? I'm sorry but I'm getting tired of this hit and miss game. I was completely onboard until Feel Flows. When I was considering that purchase I was excited by the opportunity to have not only these wonderful vault gems from that era, but fresh masterings of Sunflower and Surfs Up all in one place. That could have been great! But no, I was disappointed to find some really wanky EQing on the album portions.
Well no sense beating a dead horse. Still don't know what to think about SOS.....
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