|
Post by dauber on Jun 20, 2022 20:06:14 GMT -5
even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous.
Either that or it shows how thin-skinned someone could be. (And I said it twice on this thread alone, so let this be the third: I'd rather have not-good sounding archival Beach Boys tunes than none at all.)
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jun 20, 2022 20:20:00 GMT -5
even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous.
Either that or it shows how thin-skinned someone could be. (And I said it twice on this thread alone, so let this be the third: I'd rather have not-good sounding archival Beach Boys tunes than none at all.)
It’s business feedback. Sometimes that’s harsh. And it’s copyright extension, to use by a date certain, it or lose it. Not charity. But, it is an art form as well as a technical process. There’s the clash. Of course, it is very exciting to have access to the treasure trove. They are all big boys, and not crying over internet comments.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 21, 2022 0:34:35 GMT -5
I'd rather have not-good sounding archival Beach Boys tunes than none at all.
I'd rather them get it right the first time. Is a little bit of quality control such a big ask for a major record label?
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 21, 2022 5:48:58 GMT -5
I'd rather them get it right the first time. Is a little bit of quality control such a big ask for a major record label?
Ditto. I'm definitely not in the 'I'd rather have something crap than nothing at all' camp. I'd honestly rather have nothing at all than something awful. If they're going to make CATP and Holland and Carry Me Home sound like Sounds of Summer than I'd honestly rather they didn't bother and we just went without. Took my copy of Sounds of Summer back to the shop this morning and exchanged it for something else.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 21, 2022 5:58:14 GMT -5
I'd rather them get it right the first time. Is a little bit of quality control such a big ask for a major record label?
Ditto. I'm definitely not in the 'I'd rather have something crap than nothing at all' camp. I'd honestly rather have nothing at all than something awful. If they're going to make CATP and Holland and Carry Me Home sound like Sounds of Summer than I'd honestly rather they didn't bother and we just went without. Took my copy of Sounds of Summer back to the shop this morning and exchanged it for something else. Same here to be honest. If they are not gonna do it with pride and dignity, leave it alone until someone see's the opportunity to do it 'right'. The sad part is even in 20 years time, people discovering 'SOS' and the 'Feel Flows' set, are going to be asking the same questions we are doing now:
'Why does it sound so bright and trebly?'
'Why is there all this phony reverb all over this stuff?' 'Why did they release those 'crappy' extraction mixes'?' 'Who thought this was OK to release'?' 'Where are the god damn' liner notes'? 'Why does this hurt my ears'?
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 21, 2022 6:09:24 GMT -5
COMMENT TO HOWIE: You’re part of the poisoning of the music industry. Just churning out crappy sounding and redundant release for cash grab. Zero authenticity. Be part of the good and bring back the quality control standard that’s seen on The 1993 Good Vibrations Box please, thanks ✨ I don't know enough about Howie to comment re the above. But I do know that he was very, very, very confident that the new mix of Baby Blue on Sounds of Summer was so good that it would prove 'definitive' and would effectively render the version from LA (Light Album) obsolete. He was really quite bullishly arrogant about it and rather rude when challenged on this ('go listen to your LA 2-fer'). Well, the new mix of Baby Blue on Sounds of Summer has now arrived and, despite Howie's claims, it sounds considerably inferior to the original, with the same unpleasant hiss-filled, overly-clear, digital-sounding audio that ruins almost everything else on SoS. And it has been panned by many fans, with one online comment reading: "A track like Baby Blue is meant to be soothing and warm... The compression on SoS kills the dynamics for me, especially on the mellow tracks, and it changes the mood of Baby Blue." It's worrying to me that the people involved are so filled with self-assurance regarding these new mixes given how dreadful they sound.
|
|
|
Post by Vale on Jun 21, 2022 6:47:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 21, 2022 7:19:27 GMT -5
In the 19th century, during the great Bach revival / rediscovery, composers such as Mendelsohn re-orchestrated and 'enhanced' Bach's music in order to make it palatable to the audience and frame it in a way they'd understand.
This practice continues to this day in some form or another. Pre-19th C. European art music is often presented by far larger orchestras than would have been originally intended. Of course, all we have is the sheet music, so arguably the scores have always been open to interpretation.
There has been a movement in the large 50 years, by conductors and musicologists such as Christopher Hogwood, to present music via period instruments and ensemble sizes which better reflect the time period of the music.
Suffice to say, such arguments about authenticity have been going on for the last 150 years or so. These mixing choices we are seeing currently, are no different to what Mendelsohn was doing to Bach. These things are subject to fashion and whim, and are usually looked back on with distaste.
Pertaining to the Beach Boys, as many have pointed out, the originals are still there, and some later generation with more of a taste for authenticity will come along and present this historical music as originally intended. This is just a current whim we need to weather.
Going back to my original point about scores being subject to interpretation, opens up an interesting argument about recorded music. Can a recording, (especially a multitracked recording which can be remixed), be open to interpretation, or should it be considered sacrosanct? When the creator says a recording is perfect and ready for distribution and consumption, should that be considered a fixed art object? These are the arguments we are seeing here. And they are interesting arguments with validity on both sides.
|
|
|
Post by lonesurf on Jun 21, 2022 8:12:30 GMT -5
Baby Blue is actually my favorite Beach Boys track, since the first time I flipped the Here Comes The Night single in spring of 1979. It was a jaw dropping moment for me. The new version is interesting, but far from definitive.
While the original version is still my go-to, there are even YouTube versions that I prefer to this new SoS offering.
My other thought about the expanded Sounds Of Summer is: why use the inferior alternate version of It’s OK on this collection? This alternate version was already released on Made In California (for us uberfans) and the original single version presents the song in a much, much better light (for the casual fan, who is ostensibly buying an expanded greatest hits package).
I’m fine with some of the new ‘mad scientist’ tinkering on certain tracks (as long as the original versions remain available to stream). But … all other tracks should have been offered in their best possible fashion … “the way Brian cut it”.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 21, 2022 14:02:04 GMT -5
This kind of shit is going to get the copyright extension release plan canceled and ruin it for everybody. even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous. Which just goes to show how much you know.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 21, 2022 17:49:55 GMT -5
even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous. Which just goes to show how much you know. In the world I grew up in, bands and record companies would try to keep the fans happy, not the other way around! I'm growing more and more convinced I'm lying in a Covid induced coma somewhere, or it's still '93 and I'm on one hell of a bad acid trip
|
|
|
Post by jay on Jun 21, 2022 21:01:38 GMT -5
This kind of shit is going to get the copyright extension release plan canceled and ruin it for everybody. even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous. The idea that it's ridiculous is ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by Sam_BFC on Jun 22, 2022 7:36:53 GMT -5
Do we know of any releases that have been cancelled in the past for these reasons ?
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 22, 2022 8:23:12 GMT -5
Do we know of any releases that have been cancelled in the past for these reasons ? None that we know of. I just hate the idea of being held to ransom like this just because people are unable to take criticism. Yes that criticism was somewhat harsh, but it was in direct proportion to the quotes. 'The producer they always deserved' line was particularly ill judged, insensitive and egocentric. And demonstrably untrue.
|
|
|
Post by northcoast on Jun 22, 2022 8:41:39 GMT -5
COMMENT TO HOWIE: You’re part of the poisoning of the music industry. Just churning out crappy sounding and redundant release for cash grab. Zero authenticity. Be part of the good and bring back the quality control standard that’s seen on The 1993 Good Vibrations Box please, thanks ✨ I don't know enough about Howie to comment re the above. But I do know that he was very, very, very confident that the new mix of Baby Blue on Sounds of Summer was so good that it would prove 'definitive' and would effectively render the version from LA (Light Album) obsolete. He was really quite bullishly arrogant about it and rather rude when challenged on this ('go listen to your LA 2-fer'). Well, the new mix of Baby Blue on Sounds of Summer has now arrived and, despite Howie's claims, it sounds considerably inferior to the original, with the same unpleasant hiss-filled, overly-clear, digital-sounding audio that ruins almost everything else on SoS. And it has been panned by many fans, with one online comment reading: "A track like Baby Blue is meant to be soothing and warm... The compression on SoS kills the dynamics for me, especially on the mellow tracks, and it changes the mood of Baby Blue." It's worrying to me that the people involved are so filled with self-assurance regarding these new mixes given how dreadful they sound. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Jun 22, 2022 9:35:54 GMT -5
Regarding Howie's "Baby Blue" comments... We know the dude is an insider. Is it theoretically possible that he heard the mix before it actually went to master? It could very well be that something happened to the mix between the time he heard it and the time we heard it. (BTW, I watched the entire video of that guy talking about Sounds of Summer and I literally could not hear the issues he was talking about with "Baby Blue" - couldn't hear the hissing, couldn't hear any distortion; I don't know if his equipment was exposing it, or if maybe the compression in the video made it not obvious.) I think something similar happened with the 50th anniversary remix of Chicago Transit Authority. It kind of reminds me of the story behind the Atari 7800 video game Impossible Mission -- which was literally impossible because of a bug that made it impossible for a player to finish the game. Turns out the actual source code was fine - the bug did not exist. But when the game was burned to the EPROMS on the cartridge, some kind of signature that was applied interfered with the code.
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 22, 2022 11:36:57 GMT -5
Regarding Howie's "Baby Blue" comments... We know the dude is an insider. Is it theoretically possible that he heard the mix before it actually went to master? It could very well be that something happened to the mix between the time he heard it and the time we heard it. (BTW, I watched the entire video of that guy talking about Sounds of Summer and I literally could not hear the issues he was talking about with "Baby Blue" - couldn't hear the hissing, couldn't hear any distortion; I don't know if his equipment was exposing it, or if maybe the compression in the video made it not obvious.) I think something similar happened with the 50th anniversary remix of Chicago Transit Authority. It kind of reminds me of the story behind the Atari 7800 video game Impossible Mission -- which was literally impossible because of a bug that made it impossible for a player to finish the game. Turns out the actual source code was fine - the bug did not exist. But when the game was burned to the EPROMS on the cartridge, some kind of signature that was applied interfered with the code.
well first, just because you don’t hear it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Several people, not just one but several, have pointed out the problems with the set. This is not an isolated thing, like one person and one part of the world got a CD that had some extra hiss. Also, I don’t Believe for a single second that the people at BRI/Capitol/UMI/Iconic didn’t hear a finished, mixed, mastered, and pressed version of this before releasing it out to the public. Obviously accidents can happen but this clearly isn’t an accident, not only because it’s across the entire thing, but also because it’s a trend of their releases that’s been happening for the past two years. Again, if you can’t hear it, if this thing sounds absolutely perfect to you, that’s great. I would love to be in your position. But you are not the majority who have posted about it.
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 22, 2022 11:45:31 GMT -5
even though I disagree with the original post, this idea that random Internet posts are going to completely cancel any future releases is absolutely ridiculous. Which just goes to show how much you know. unless you can actually put up some sort of (recent)example of random Internet posts canceling a project, I’m not going to believe it. I’m not going to believe that a multi million dollar company with professionals working on these projects is going to cancel them because Tom and Bill on a Beach Boys messageboard say they suck. And if it’s true that releases can easily be canceled because people have genuine criticisms about them, and the people at the label are truly that thin skinned maybe they shouldn’t be in the business of working on very popular and loved music. I’m not going to “shut up and take my slop” because “you’re lucky you’re getting anything.” That’s a dumb mindset, we’re talking about a Company who’s only purpose is to make money.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 22, 2022 12:24:11 GMT -5
Back in 2018, a mod on another board made a point of saying he'd not buy the latest CopEx releases because there was a certain name in the thank yous. In response to this, one of the project producers posted the single word "appalling" before later explaining this sort of thing was hardly going to help the future of the series. Since day one, the project has lived hand to mouth. Always remember, all the forums are monitored on a regular basis by interested parties, and I don't mean just BRI or IAG, or even BriMel. We should all consider this. You heard that from The Sauce.
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 22, 2022 13:18:39 GMT -5
Regarding Howie's "Baby Blue" comments... We know the dude is an insider. Is it theoretically possible that he heard the mix before it actually went to master? It could very well be that something happened to the mix between the time he heard it and the time we heard it. (BTW, I watched the entire video of that guy talking about Sounds of Summer and I literally could not hear the issues he was talking about with "Baby Blue" - couldn't hear the hissing, couldn't hear any distortion; I don't know if his equipment was exposing it, or if maybe the compression in the video made it not obvious.) I think something similar happened with the 50th anniversary remix of Chicago Transit Authority. It kind of reminds me of the story behind the Atari 7800 video game Impossible Mission -- which was literally impossible because of a bug that made it impossible for a player to finish the game. Turns out the actual source code was fine - the bug did not exist. But when the game was burned to the EPROMS on the cartridge, some kind of signature that was applied interfered with the code.
If you watched the entire video then you presumably watched/heard the moment where he played the version of Baby Blue from the 2-fer CD and then played the new Sounds of Summer version immediately afterwards. Are you saying you genuinely didn't hear any difference between the two versions?
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Jun 22, 2022 13:26:27 GMT -5
I heard a DIFFERENCE. I didn't hear the faults he was talking about.
|
|
|
Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 22, 2022 13:44:22 GMT -5
That YouTube version has the hissing as well. Just played my LA vinyl and it’s gorgeous. Seems a whole lot of effort to create a problem that didn’t exist in the first place. Truly strange.
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Jun 22, 2022 13:53:08 GMT -5
well first, just because you don’t hear it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Several people, not just one but several, have pointed out the problems with the set. This is not an isolated thing, like one person and one part of the world got a CD that had some extra hiss. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I'm just saying I don't hear it. And I was watching the video on my iMac with Bose speakers -- same way I've been listening to the Feel Flows set and hearing zero of the issues that people are complaining about (except for the SF and SU remasters, which do sound atrocious). Maybe if I were watching the video and piping the sound through my car's stereo -- in which all of Feel Flows sounds terrible -- I might hear the issue. As I said at least twice before, I am 1000000000% sure that playback equipment has everything to do with it. (Which...honestly, is still a problem, given that so many other recent releases sound good all across the board.)
Oh, neither do I, but I also think it's possible that Howie heard this stuff before it got mastered and pressed.
|
|
|
Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 22, 2022 13:56:20 GMT -5
well first, just because you don’t hear it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Several people, not just one but several, have pointed out the problems with the set. This is not an isolated thing, like one person and one part of the world got a CD that had some extra hiss. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I'm just saying I don't hear it. And I was watching the video on my iMac with Bose speakers -- same way I've been listening to the Feel Flows set and hearing zero of the issues that people are complaining about (except for the SF and SU remasters, which do sound atrocious). Maybe if I were watching the video and piping the sound through my car's stereo -- in which all of Feel Flows sounds terrible -- I might hear the issue. As I said at least twice before, I am 1000000000% sure that playback equipment has everything to do with it. (Which...honestly, is still a problem, given that so many other recent releases sound good all across the board.)
Oh, neither do I, but I also think it's possible that Howie heard this stuff before it got mastered and pressed.
That last part would have been mistake # …… oops, I lost count.
|
|
|
Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 22, 2022 14:11:26 GMT -5
I hear the hiss (which is most noticeable during quieter parts) but what I find more troublesome is the heavy-handed use of compression. The hiss is probably the result of compressing the hell out of everything. That piano has absolutely no room to breathe and the entire song is just one big, fat… thing. It’s totally in your face and a bit annoying. It’s just a bit weird because adding this much compression makes it sound amateurish and Mark Linett is definitely no amateur.
|
|