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Post by filledeplage on Jun 11, 2022 9:02:43 GMT -5
Sorry but I love those new mix. The 72 and 73 mixes were too "shy". I've always prefered the songs of CATP and Holland on the "in concert" lp than on the studio albums. It seems that something was wrong no? With the original mixes, except for fans like me, no hit were possible... something was missing in term of power. For different reasons, I prefer the live work. “Shy” is probably a good term because there is a certain exuberance that you can capture live and not in the studio context. It springs to life on stage! That concert from 72-3 is the best and always a go-to for me.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 11, 2022 9:08:43 GMT -5
I recently took some recordings of songs of mine that were professionally mixed and mastered to my satisfaction, and I synced them to video using iMovie on my iMac. I made no volume changes, no added EQ, compression, or any other alterations. I uploaded the results to YouTube.
Then I played them back through YouTube on my TV surround sound system, computer, iPad, and iPhone. They seemed different, compressed, with too much bass on the the surround sound system, and grossly overloaded and distorted played through the built in speakers on my iPad and iPhone. They sound pretty good through headphones using Bluetooth. If YouTube did any compression or altered the sound, it was beyond my control. Perhaps the devices are altering the sound. Do I need special mastering for iTunes, YouTube, each streaming channel or device?
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 11, 2022 10:51:16 GMT -5
Wow... That Howie interview is really something. He is basically the one responsible for pushing Mark Linett to 'push' the material to make it 'more' than what it is. Mark would make these mixes, and Howie wanted him to go further with it.
According to Howie, the weakest link about the 70's albums is the 'shitty mixing and mastering'. Wtf? I can't believe it! I mean some are not perfect mixes, but 'shitty' is a strong word to use I thought. These are albums I've loved all my life, so that cuts deep, and I don't agree with his assessment. If the new samples are anything to go on, I don't see how they think they are 'improving' them.
Between Howie and Mark, they are taking full creative liberties as Howie said to Mark,
'You need to be the producer they never had then'.
The guy sure seems to have an attitude of sorts and goes on to say:
'On a comp. like this, change things up, there's gonna be stuff where people aren't gonna like or I'm not gonna like it....it's not like anything's replacing anything......65 year old people aren't buying new music, we have to be aiming for the 23 year old, we have to be or the thing dies.' Seems they are doing things different 'just' for the sake of doing something different, which I think is a 'shitty' excuse just quietly. He rips on how nobody young wants to listen to Brian's mono mixes and calls out the hard panned stereo (that I can understand), but does this guy really have much of a clue as people praise him to have?
Check out the audio interview above and justify for yourselves, it sure explains more 'clearly', spite the fact most of us here, are not the demographic their aiming for going forward.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 11, 2022 11:06:01 GMT -5
Without doing any research, my guess is that people over 65 are the ones buying the CDs, and the kids are just streaming. I had a younger co-worker tell me he has no CDs. I’ve seen on Twitter where they say you’re really old if you have CDs in your house. I’ve seen where a school teacher told her students to bring in their parents’ CDs to class, to be destroyed and used for a modern artwork project.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 11:14:40 GMT -5
Now, we know why he copped an attitude regarding Baby Blue. Howie is too close to the product and the people involved to be objective. I think most of us realize the great work that Carl & Steve Desper did on Sunflower and Surf’s Up. Maybe he was referring only to the Steve Moffitt albums. He will need to clarify.
As interesting as Marcella (2021) sounds, I would not want it to replace the original arrangement on a remixed CATP album. A cool alternate mix, for sure, but that is all.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 11:21:10 GMT -5
Without doing any research, my guess is that people over 65 are the ones buying the CDs, and the kids are just streaming. I had a younger co-workers tell me he has no CDs. I’ve seen on Twitter where they say you’re really old if you have CDs in your house. I’ve seen where a school teacher told her students to bring in their parents’ CDs to class, to be destroyed and used for a modern artwork project. I may be close, but I’m under 65, but I grew up with physical product, be it 45s, LPs or CDs. I rip everything and listen to both lossless and lossy digital files. I hate streaming. Usually sounds terrible.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 11:28:29 GMT -5
My problem is not with the remixes, of course everyone knows those aren’t replacing anything and you can go get whichever version you want. It’s with the fact that we already know their policy about previously unreleased material. Almost everything with three or four exceptions, that was previously unreleased from Feel Flows, got 2019-21 mixes. Come this fall, will I have to choose between a crackly rip of a rip of a rip of Carry Me Home from the 80s, and a treble boosted, compressed Beyond repair, earsplitting official copy? Will The only version of Spark in the dark publicly available have tape hiss bouncing from ear to ear, while the organ is forced through a treble boosted pro-tools plug-in? That’s what’s bugging me. As I said I like the decisions made on this new Marcella mix, I think it sounds cool… minus The obvious digital treble boosting and compression.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 11, 2022 11:32:10 GMT -5
My problem is not with the remixes, of course everyone knows those aren’t replacing anything and you can go get whichever version you want. It’s with the fact that we already know their policy about previously unreleased material. Almost everything with three or four exceptions, that was previously unreleased from Feel Flows, got 2019-21 mixes. Come this fall, will I have to choose between a crackly rip of a rip of a rip of Carry Me Home from the 80s, and a treble boosted, compressed Beyond repair, earsplitting official copy? Will The only version of Spark in the dark publicly available have tape hiss bouncing from ear to ear, while the organ is forced through a treble boosted pro-tools plug-in? That’s what’s bugging me. As I said I like the decisions made on this new Marcella mix, I think it sounds cool… minus The obvious digital treble boosting and compression. We might need to grab a couple Reel to Reel tape decks and do some dub downs to 'warm things up' a bit. It might come good around generation 3 or 4...
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 244
Likes: 254
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Post by rjm on Jun 11, 2022 11:41:48 GMT -5
What an awesome interview with Howie! Thanks so much for sharing it. To anyone who has complained about the sound, mixing, and/or mastering of recent new mixes your answer will be found in this interview. I’ve bit my tongue in responding to any of the endless complaints about the new mixes, and really, it comes down to what the current generation will gravitate towards. The majority of listeners in today’s day and age listen on Apple AirPods or equivalent devices. Just how Chuck/Brian would mix for AM radio when that was the majority platform. If you are in the trenches in today’s music industry you understand why these remixes sound the way they do. If you don’t dig them, we have the original pressings! This does not discount the original versions/mixes at all, just presents them in a way for more people to enjoy them. The team is doing a great job trying to garner new fans. Whatever your opinion is of the new remixes, it’s a great time to be a fan of this band!! If that is the case, then why weren’t the 2012 reissues, MiC, Stereo Wild Honey, 20/20 material released the same way? WE, the diehard fans are the ONES buying this stuff, and our 60 years of loyalty is repaid with terrible sounding releases? If the new box set is going to sound the same way, then I will hold on to my money. I haven’t listened to Feel Flows since around October. I will show my dissatisfaction by not buying the product. As the old saying goes, “Money talks…”. Hmmmmmmm. Very interesting.
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 244
Likes: 254
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Post by rjm on Jun 11, 2022 11:43:06 GMT -5
If that is the case, then why weren’t the 2012 reissues, MiC, Stereo Wild Honey, 20/20 material released the same way? WE, the diehard fans are the ONES buying this stuff, and our 60 years of loyalty is repaid with terrible sounding releases? If the new box set is going to sound the same way, then I will hold on to my money. I haven’t listened to Feel Flows since around October. I will show my dissatisfaction by not buying the product. As the old saying goes, “Money talks…”. Then you'll be missing out on hearing/owning some sweet unheard music by an awesome band, one which you seem like a great passionate fan of! As to your first question, my guess is the way the music industry currently stands in present time, 2022, and the direction that Brother/Iconic (IAG) want to take the band. A lot has changed since 2012, and even since 2018! Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! Exactly. It’s a puzzling and disappointing attitude, especially coming from an admin for a Beach Boys message board.
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Post by EST583JRX on Jun 11, 2022 11:53:38 GMT -5
If these new overcompressed mixes really are meant to appeal to fans between their late teens and mid-20s then LOL!!!! That's the demographic that has been complaining the most! I can't recommend any of these new releases to friends - all of whom love the Beach Boys and fall under that age range (yet wouldn't consider themselves to be "hardcore" fans) - without a single one of them asking something to the effect of, "Why does it sound so weird?" or "Was it recorded like that originally?" The music industry will always be full of misguided souls who feel they know what the kids really want. It's a tale as old as time.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 11:53:42 GMT -5
Then you'll be missing out on hearing/owning some sweet unheard music by an awesome band, one which you seem like a great passionate fan of! As to your first question, my guess is the way the music industry currently stands in present time, 2022, and the direction that Brother/Iconic (IAG) want to take the band. A lot has changed since 2012, and even since 2018! Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! Exactly. It’s a puzzling and disappointing attitude, especially coming from an admin for a Beach Boys message board. My issue isn't exactly with the band, but rather their record company. As for attitude, go ask the admin at the other board that would illegally DL a release rather than buy a copy over a "Thank You" in the liners. How disappointing and puzzling that must have been, eh?
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Post by EST583JRX on Jun 11, 2022 12:05:47 GMT -5
Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! I have long suspected that this delusion is the real reason why the mixes are being treated so badly. People in the music industry bubble have a cult mentality that goes something like, "Yeah, we know the top 40 music is dogshit, but dogshit is what sells! So if we want to sell our 'not dogshit' product, we need to make it into dogshit. Otherwise, why release it?" That is the same mentality that brought Joe Thomas into the Beach Boys' fold in 1996 and 2012. The same mentality that have left songs like Stevie, Black Widow, and I'm Begging You Please languishing in a vault for decades. The same mentality that stopped Brian Wilson from releasing Smile for thirty-odd years.
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Post by AGD on Jun 11, 2022 12:25:46 GMT -5
Exactly. It’s a puzzling and disappointing attitude, especially coming from an admin for a Beach Boys message board. My issue isn't exactly with the band, but rather their record company. As for attitude, go ask the admin at the other board that would illegally DL a release rather than buy a copy over a "Thank You" in the liners. How disappointing and puzzling that must have been, eh?No need to wonder: Boyd's response is there for all to see. "Appalling".
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 11, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -5
Wow... That Howie interview is really something. He is basically the one responsible for pushing Mark Linett to 'push' the material to make it 'more' than what it is. Mark would make these mixes, and Howie wanted him to go further with it.
According to Howie, the weakest link about the 70's albums is the 'shitty mixing and mastering'. Wtf? I can't believe it! I mean some are not perfect mixes, but 'shitty' is a strong word to use I thought. These are albums I've loved all my life, so that cuts deep, and I don't agree with his assessment. If the new samples are anything to go on, I don't see how they think they are 'improving' them.
Between Howie and Mark, they are taking full creative liberties as Howie said to Mark,
'You need to be the producer they never had then'.
The guy sure seems to have an attitude of sorts and goes on to say:
'On a comp. like this, change things up, there's gonna be stuff where people aren't gonna like or I'm not gonna like it....it's not like anything's replacing anything......65 year old people aren't buying new music, we have to be aiming for the 23 year old, we have to be or the thing dies.' Seems they are doing things different 'just' for the sake of doing something different, which I think is a 'shitty' excuse just quietly. He rips on how nobody young wants to listen to Brian's mono mixes and calls out the hard panned stereo (that I can understand), but does this guy really have much of a clue as people praise him to have?
Check out the audio interview above and justify for yourselves, it sure explains more 'clearly', spite the fact most of us here, are not the demographic their aiming for going forward.
Just listened to that podcast - I don’t agree at all with the fm comments. I think The Beach Boys were immediately and heavily integrated into fm radio from the jump. They were on wbcn in Boston, which was playing in Harvard Square boutiques in 1967. (Heavy college town that goes without saying and why Student Demonstration Time charted from an LP in that area.) But, I was not even in college in 1967-ish era, my school was close and we were there a lot to shop in the boutiques (with our school uniform skirts rolled up and mostly covered under a 3/4 jacket) and to hit one of the legendary ice cream shops, with your sundae served on an actual silver tray. This would be a few days a week before we had after school jobs. These were clearly DJs who knew what they were doing. They were playing Smiley, Pet Sounds - one side at a time, cuts from Wild Honey. They went wild when Surf’s Up was finally released. With SDT on the other side. The mono was played on enormous stereo speakers that filled the space of these stores. It sounded wonderful. Even in 1968 the BBs were in heavier fm rotation than on am. They didn’t have the commercial constraints either so they could pack their ads in between album cuts and would not interrupt an LP for a commercial. Do It Again marked an opener for them because it “sounded like The Beach Boys.” Their old mojo was back. But, FM (and college stations on fm) heavy rotation in all the college towns and beyond were what made a college-based tour successful and popular. FM opened that back door which became the front door for promotion and bookings. And often the DJ would preface the play by “Can you believe this is The Beach Boys?” And they didn’t apologize.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 11, 2022 12:51:05 GMT -5
I'm afraid that if we don't buy their new releases because we don't like the sound, they will interpret that failure to sell as an indication not to release any more product at all.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 11, 2022 13:04:12 GMT -5
I'm afraid that if we don't buy their new releases because we don't like the sound, they will interpret that failure to sell as an indication not to release any more product at all. That's very true. What they should be interpreting, is what people are saying and stop 'fucking with the formula'! We know it can be done, we've all mentioned all of the great releases that have come in the past. What pisses me more is that they are purposely 'fucking with the formula' and the results are average to shithouse. It's good a few people like them, but the general consensus seems to say otherwise among the public, and not just this board.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 13:50:17 GMT -5
Without doing any research, my guess is that people over 65 are the ones buying the CDs, and the kids are just streaming. I had a younger co-worker tell me he has no CDs. I’ve seen on Twitter where they say you’re really old if you have CDs in your house. I’ve seen where a school teacher told her students to bring in their parents’ CDs to class, to be destroyed and used for a modern artwork project. I bought the Feel Flows box-set with my hard-earned cash and I'm 39, and I'd say 90% of the people I know who have bought it are under 50.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 11, 2022 13:51:59 GMT -5
I'm afraid that if we don't buy their new releases because we don't like the sound, they will interpret that failure to sell as an indication not to release any more product at all. That's very true. What they should be interpreting, is what people are saying and stop 'fucking with the formula'! We know it can be done, we've all mentioned all of the great releases that have come in the past. What pisses me more is that they are purposely 'fucking with the formula' and the results are average to shithouse. It's good a few people like them, but the general consensus seems to say otherwise among the public, and not just this board.
Honestly, I am more interested in unreleased tracks and live stuff than anything else. I am not unhappy with Feel Flows or Sunshine Tomorrow complete with some shows that I saw. But I am not a sound expert. I like a deep bass analog sound that came out of large speakers, that could almost hypnotize you, and that is consistent with those eras, especially the 70s. And more kids are listening to vinyl which is mind-blowing. Granted, they are doing Spotify and other subscription based services. I think they band had bad press in the same way Paul McCartney was screwed in the press from some heavy hitters who did not want to see him succeed. Original or 2nd gen fans are buying the unreleased material. I never heard one lifer fan, jump up and down about some “mix” or “production” but they do jump up and down about unreleased tracks. And, I think you can take that to the bank.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 11, 2022 13:53:39 GMT -5
Without doing any research, my guess is that people over 65 are the ones buying the CDs, and the kids are just streaming. I had a younger co-worker tell me he has no CDs. I’ve seen on Twitter where they say you’re really old if you have CDs in your house. I’ve seen where a school teacher told her students to bring in their parents’ CDs to class, to be destroyed and used for a modern artwork project. I bought the Feel Flows box-set with my hard-earned cash and I'm 39. And I bought the download. I wanted the tracks and I didn’t want to wait another minute or day. Good for you. Did your parents play The Beach Boys?
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 14:30:57 GMT -5
I bought the Feel Flows box-set with my hard-earned cash and I'm 39. And I bought the download. I wanted the tracks and I didn’t want to wait another minute or day. Good for you. Did your parents play The Beach Boys? I wasn't saying I bought it in order to seem superior to those who didn't. I was saying I bought it because it was suggested that the box-set was primarily bought by those aged 65 and over. Well, I'm a long way off 65, as are the vast majority of the people I know who also bought it.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 11, 2022 14:33:36 GMT -5
The strangest thing to me is that some fans want remixes wich are exactly the same than the ols mixes! Why should they do this?
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 244
Likes: 254
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Post by rjm on Jun 11, 2022 14:34:34 GMT -5
Exactly. It’s a puzzling and disappointing attitude, especially coming from an admin for a Beach Boys message board. My issue isn't exactly with the band, but rather their record company. As for attitude, go ask the admin at the other board that would illegally DL a release rather than buy a copy over a "Thank You" in the liners. How disappointing and puzzling that must have been, eh? He did wind up buying it after all.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 14:37:33 GMT -5
Wow... That Howie interview is really something. He is basically the one responsible for pushing Mark Linett to 'push' the material to make it 'more' than what it is. Mark would make these mixes, and Howie wanted him to go further with it.
According to Howie, the weakest link about the 70's albums is the 'shitty mixing and mastering'. Wtf? I can't believe it! I mean some are not perfect mixes, but 'shitty' is a strong word to use I thought. These are albums I've loved all my life, so that cuts deep, and I don't agree with his assessment. If the new samples are anything to go on, I don't see how they think they are 'improving' them.
Between Howie and Mark, they are taking full creative liberties as Howie said to Mark,
'You need to be the producer they never had then'.
The guy sure seems to have an attitude of sorts and goes on to say:
'On a comp. like this, change things up, there's gonna be stuff where people aren't gonna like or I'm not gonna like it....it's not like anything's replacing anything......65 year old people aren't buying new music, we have to be aiming for the 23 year old, we have to be or the thing dies.' Seems they are doing things different 'just' for the sake of doing something different, which I think is a 'shitty' excuse just quietly. He rips on how nobody young wants to listen to Brian's mono mixes and calls out the hard panned stereo (that I can understand), but does this guy really have much of a clue as people praise him to have?
Check out the audio interview above and justify for yourselves, it sure explains more 'clearly', spite the fact most of us here, are not the demographic their aiming for going forward.
Without wanting to be rude, the man appears to be talking out of his backside. Why on earth is Mark Linett listening to this guy's atrocious advice??
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 11, 2022 14:48:03 GMT -5
Wow... That Howie interview is really something. He is basically the one responsible for pushing Mark Linett to 'push' the material to make it 'more' than what it is. Mark would make these mixes, and Howie wanted him to go further with it.
According to Howie, the weakest link about the 70's albums is the 'shitty mixing and mastering'. Wtf? I can't believe it! I mean some are not perfect mixes, but 'shitty' is a strong word to use I thought. These are albums I've loved all my life, so that cuts deep, and I don't agree with his assessment. If the new samples are anything to go on, I don't see how they think they are 'improving' them.
Between Howie and Mark, they are taking full creative liberties as Howie said to Mark,
'You need to be the producer they never had then'.
The guy sure seems to have an attitude of sorts and goes on to say:
'On a comp. like this, change things up, there's gonna be stuff where people aren't gonna like or I'm not gonna like it....it's not like anything's replacing anything......65 year old people aren't buying new music, we have to be aiming for the 23 year old, we have to be or the thing dies.' Seems they are doing things different 'just' for the sake of doing something different, which I think is a 'shitty' excuse just quietly. He rips on how nobody young wants to listen to Brian's mono mixes and calls out the hard panned stereo (that I can understand), but does this guy really have much of a clue as people praise him to have?
Check out the audio interview above and justify for yourselves, it sure explains more 'clearly', spite the fact most of us here, are not the demographic their aiming for going forward.
Why on earth is Mark Linett listening to this guy's atrocious advice?? He is hired gun to do a job and to be paid you do as your boss tells you to do.
What happens when you tell your boss to go to hell? Yeahhh..... You lose your place. This has probably been a good gig for Mark for so many years, I doubt he is gonna ruffle any feathers.
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