|
|
Post by goodvibrations33 on Jun 10, 2022 21:18:35 GMT -5
What an awesome interview with Howie! Thanks so much for sharing it. To anyone who has complained about the sound, mixing, and/or mastering of recent new mixes your answer will be found in this interview. I’ve bit my tongue in responding to any of the endless complaints about the new mixes, and really, it comes down to what the current generation will gravitate towards. The majority of listeners in today’s day and age listen on Apple AirPods or equivalent devices. Just how Chuck/Brian would mix for AM radio when that was the majority platform. If you are in the trenches in today’s music industry you understand why these remixes sound the way they do. If you don’t dig them, we have the original pressings! This does not discount the original versions/mixes at all, just presents them in a way for more people to enjoy them. The team is doing a great job trying to garner new fans. Whatever your opinion is of the new remixes, it’s a great time to be a fan of this band!! If that is the case, then why weren’t the 2012 reissues, MiC, Stereo Wild Honey, 20/20 material released the same way? WE, the diehard fans are the ONES buying this stuff, and our 60 years of loyalty is repaid with terrible sounding releases? If the new box set is going to sound the same way, then I will hold on to my money. I haven’t listened to Feel Flows since around October. I will show my dissatisfaction by not buying the product. As the old saying goes, “Money talks…”. Then you'll be missing out on hearing/owning some sweet unheard music by an awesome band, one which you seem like a great passionate fan of! As to your first question, my guess is the way the music industry currently stands in present time, 2022, and the direction that Brother/Iconic (IAG) want to take the band. A lot has changed since 2012, and even since 2018! Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! |
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Jun 10, 2022 21:25:22 GMT -5
The majority of listeners in today’s day and age listen on Apple AirPods or equivalent devices. I don't do Apple Airpods. I'm old school. I always listen to music on my home and car stereo systems with real amplifiers and acoustic speakers. Sometimes I use my headphones but not much. I expect these new releases to be fully compatible on all levels sonically with my systems - the same systems that I've played my vinyl, CD, and digital music collection on for many years. |
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 10, 2022 21:29:48 GMT -5
If that is the case, then why weren’t the 2012 reissues, MiC, Stereo Wild Honey, 20/20 material released the same way? WE, the diehard fans are the ONES buying this stuff, and our 60 years of loyalty is repaid with terrible sounding releases? If the new box set is going to sound the same way, then I will hold on to my money. I haven’t listened to Feel Flows since around October. I will show my dissatisfaction by not buying the product. As the old saying goes, “Money talks…”. Then you'll be missing out on hearing/owning some sweet unheard music by an awesome band, one which you seem like a great passionate fan of! As to your first question, my guess is the way the music industry currently stands in present time, 2022, and the direction that Brother/Iconic (IAG) want to take the band. A lot has changed since 2012, and even since 2018! Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! Problem is, I bought Feel Flows and don’t listen to it. Wasted $100.00 on something that is taking up room on a shelf. Beautiful voices should not sound shrill. I have plenty of Beach Boys music. Cancelling my SOS sale and not buying the new box set will not hurt me in the least. |
|
|
|
Post by goodvibrations33 on Jun 10, 2022 21:32:36 GMT -5
The majority of listeners in today’s day and age listen on Apple AirPods or equivalent devices. I don't do Apple Airpods. I'm old school. I always listen to music on my home and car stereo systems with real amplifiers and acoustic speakers. Sometimes I use my headphones but not much. I expect these new releases to be fully compatible on all levels sonically with my systems - the same systems that I've played my vinyl, CD, and digital music collection on for many years. As do I, and I totally get that! I am a traditionalist through and through. I don't have any inside knowledge, just trying to shed some light on what is mainstream in 2022. |
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 10, 2022 22:51:03 GMT -5
What an awesome interview with Howie! Thanks so much for sharing it. To anyone who has complained about the sound, mixing, and/or mastering of recent new mixes your answer will be found in this interview. I’ve bit my tongue in responding to any of the endless complaints about the new mixes, and really, it comes down to what the current generation will gravitate towards. The majority of listeners in today’s day and age listen on Apple AirPods or equivalent devices. Just how Chuck/Brian would mix for AM radio when that was the majority platform. If you are in the trenches in today’s music industry you understand why these remixes sound the way they do. If you don’t dig them, we have the original pressings! This does not discount the original versions/mixes at all, just presents them in a way for more people to enjoy them. The team is doing a great job trying to garner new fans. Whatever your opinion is of the new remixes, it’s a great time to be a fan of this band!! I call BS. The majority of my listening is done through AirPods, not all but majority, and I’m in the exact (younger college age vinyl nerd/classic rock fan)demographic you and Howie are talking about. Still doesn’t change the issues, even with AirPods the treble is absolutely insane. I’ve also had conversations with several beach boys fans around my age, who all basically have the same conclusions. Again I have no idea who or why it’s being done, but if they truly think that The next generation of beach boys fans want mind melting treble they couldn’t be more wrong. Seriously the opening note of Marcella sounds like it’s trying to pierce a hole into my brain, no matter how I listen. It’s just weird. Giles Martin has talked about how he makes his mixes targeted at the younger generation, to get them to fit into playlists and such, and I have no issues with the work that he’s been doing. No idea why it’s the exact opposite here. |
|
|
|
Post by boogieboarder on Jun 10, 2022 22:58:04 GMT -5
Personally, I LOVE this tracklist. It really offers an eclectic mix of songs that reflects the versatility of the Beach Boys' catalogue - and the inclusion of the mighty Where I Belong on a Beach Boys comp has been long overdue.. Problem is, the new additions ignore what Sounds of Summer was supposed to be. A singles collection. All songs on the original 2003 compilation were US Billboard Top 40 hits, and discs 2 and 3 fail to expand on that concept. The resulting compilation mostly features songs from 1967-1973 that would be generally regarded by casuals as “deep cuts”. Some, like “Surf’s Up” and “Sail On, Sailor” are well-known enough to be considered “hits”. However, there are still lots of “hits” missing from SoS, such as “The Little Girl I Once Knew” and “Lady Lynda”. I don’t see a problem. I would expect an album called Sounds of Summer to contain “sounds of Summer,” and would have no idea that someone decided that it was supposed to be a singles collection. I would have expected that to be called The Beach Boys Singles Collection. As for the song titles chosen, “Surf’s Up” and “Sail On, Sailor” seem to indicate Summer a lot better than “The Little Girl I Once Knew” and “Lady Lynda”. |
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Jun 10, 2022 22:59:02 GMT -5
I purchased the lossless version off of Qobuz. I will say you can pick out a lot of things that were orginally buried from the album mix. You can even pick out Dennis in some spots. I've always been able to pick out Dennis in this part in the chorus:
"One arm....one arm over my shoulder-er sandals...that dance, dance at my feet....Her eyes, her eyes'll knock you right o-ver-er...Ooh Mar....Mar-cella's so sweet!" I remember some years ago people pounced on me and insisted it was Mike. Uhhhhh....no. No, no, no, no, no.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 11, 2022 2:04:01 GMT -5
It's official. It's on the new compilation. But it's just so inexcusably bad.Haha! No worries! I agree, it's bloody rotten!
|
|
mattbielewicz
Grommet
Mmmmmmm. Mmmmmm, mmmmmmm, mmmmmmmm, mmyyyyaaaaaahhh... Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh...
Posts: 42
Likes: 98 
|
Post by mattbielewicz on Jun 11, 2022 2:39:48 GMT -5
OK, I'm going to provide a contrasting opinion. For what it's worth, I really like a lot of these new remixes. But to understand *that* point of view, you need to know where *my* sonic preferences were likely formed. I first listened to pop music at the very end of the 1970s, and started seriously listening in the 80s. I like my songs to have a decent amount of high-frequency info in them, and rock from the early and mid-70s (ie. stuff that came out before I really got into music) often sounds horribly dull (tonally) to my ears, with too much muddy mid-range and lacking in top end. Drums like dead-sounding cardboard boxes, 'pillows' of mid-rangey backing vocals — the sound of stadium-era Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac, Chicago, America, the Doobie Brothers, CSNY, Steely Dan... all that.
By the time I was seriously buying music, we were into the era of the clanging snares and thunderous reverbs with lots of top end (which was in itself, of course, a fashionable sonic reaction to the dead-sounding 70s). Now, of course, a lot of THAT 1980s 'big drums' stuff sounds super-dated too, but I think that era helped to set my preferred sonic listening palette, as it were. When fiddling with the cheap graphic EQs on stereo systems I owned in the early 80s, I always liked the treble to be up and the mid-range cut. Perhaps that preference has 'baked in' over time?
And much as I love the Beach Boys, I have always thought that albums from the late 60s to the late 70s sound a bit dull, tonally speaking. I grew to love them all, although it took longer for the 70s material (yes, even Sunflower!) to grow on me than the 60s stuff, which grabbed me pretty much instantly. CATP has always felt to me like the '1970siest' of their 1970s records, so to speak.
With that in mind, I like the 'new' Marcella — to me, it rocks a bit more impressively and punchily than the original. I like some of the new instrumental lines and vocals the remix has brought out, too. Where others now hear too much clutter, I like hearing some of the complexity that was in the original recording brought more to the fore. And though I haven't always liked recent remixes more than the originals (the alternate Suzie Cincinatti mixes on Feel Flows and MiC with the extra vocal interjections seemed too over the top for me), this falls the right side of the line for me.
With this and what I've heard of the other remixes so far, I *am* going to spring for the 'new' Sounds Of Summer. It's working for me, sonically — and also, I don't actually own that much in the way of BB hit compilations, amazingly (given how many there have been). Other than the UK two-CD Best Of The Beach Boys set that I got in 1995 when I thought it might be a good idea to see if I might like this ancient group from the 60s (which, many hundreds of CDs, bootlegs and concerts later, has turned out to be something of an expensive decision), and the 1993 and 2012 boxed sets (which I got for all the otherwise unavailable material), I don't own any Beach Boys compilations. So I quite like the idea of one with 'new takes' on the existing material. It was different in the 90s when a lot of the band's original material wasn't easily available on CD or vinyl — back then, if the only releases with these 70s tracks had been compilations like this with remixed versions on them, that would have been annoying. But now we all have, or can have, easy access to the original 1970s albums with their original mixes. Hell, most of us here probably own at least one copy of these albums, and maybe more...? I know I do. So does it really matter if now, there's a collection which sounds a bit different...?
Of course, by some of the responses to these new mixes aired here and on the Hoffman board, it seems as though it *does* matter to some of you. I don't think I can get on board with some of that myself. I certainly don't feel as though the chord at the start of Marcella, or the staccato piano at the start of the Feel Flows track and BVs mix of YNAMOHTSA, are boring holes in my brain. They just sound a bit less sonically dulled to me. But then I don't subscribe to the opinion seemingly prevailing here and on the Hoffman web board that Feel Flows and some of the newer remixes in the BB catalogue are over-burdened with treble. They sound just fine to me, on speakers and headphones alike. It is definitely possible that I have terrible hearing (I listened to a Walkman FAR too loud, too often when I was a teenager). Or maybe these tracks are presented sonically in a way that just sounds neutral to me, but is taking the top of other people's heads off?
And of course, there's another possibility. When you change stuff that people are familiar with, some are just going to like it and some aren't. Different strokes for different folks. But having read comments in places like this for years that the studio version of Marcella was a bit 'dull' and 'lifeless' compared to the 'more rocking' live version on In Concert, I do find it funny that when finally presented with a less tame, more in-your-face studio mix, people are now complaining that it's sanding their ears off...!
Maybe it just comes down to this: you can't please all of the people, all of the time. And this time around, I happen to be in the 'pleased' part of the crowd...?
|
|
mattbielewicz
Grommet
Mmmmmmm. Mmmmmm, mmmmmmm, mmmmmmmm, mmyyyyaaaaaahhh... Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh...
Posts: 42
Likes: 98
|
Post by mattbielewicz on Jun 11, 2022 4:55:23 GMT -5
I just listened to the Howie Edelson podcast interview linked above. I hadn't heard that before I posted the stuff above. It was very interesting — I hadn't realised that the new releases are, to a large extent, actively going out of their way to change the sound of some of the older material, and reimagine it for music-listeners who are 22 NOW, in 2022.
That's *inevitably* going to put the cat among the pigeons for some people. Like I said above, if you change music that people have been intimately familiar with for 50 years in some cases, there are going to be some harsh opinions on that. For some it's going to be unacceptable 'messing with the Mona Lisa' and for others it's going to be an interesting new take on an existing piece of art, or even a welcome sonic update to stuff that sounds dated and too old-school for first-time listeners to love. I don't go myself as far as the last of those opinions, but I'll bet there will be some people who do.
It so happens that I personally like some of the results of this new approach to remixing so far, but it's unavoidable that I won't like everything, and that other people will have a completely different set of opinions on it, good and bad. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised at some of the comments here... And actually, I don't agree with everything Howie said*, or share all of his opinions on the things that are 'cool' to focus on in the BB back catalogue — he seems to like the 70s stuff more than me, and the early 60s stuff less. But that's just MY opinion. He recommends 'Do It Again' as the starting point for new listeners, which I like, but has always slightly underwhelmed me. For me, there was no more effective 'gateway drug' to the Beach Boys than the SMiLE material and Pet Sounds... but of course that was ME — and I was 22 back in 1993, so what do I know about what will work for 22-year-olds now?
The bottom line is that it's an approach that is interesting enough for me, as what you might call a third-generation BB fan, to make me spring for the new Sounds Of Summer (where the first generation grew up with the band, the second came in after Endless Summer in the 70s and the third, like me, were piqued by all the Britpop bands name-checking Brian in the mid-90s and the increasingly loud voices of the SMiLE-driven crowd led by Domenic Priore and the guys in the Wondermints). Some will call it a desecration, but they already have the originals. And like Howie said in the podcast, it's not those people that they have to win over. If no 20-somethings start appreciating and buying the music like I did when I was 24, then as amazing as it is, it *will* slowly be forgotten...
MattB
* PS. I totally agree with Howie, though, that unless you were a BB fan from the start and HAD to work your way through their catalogue in real time as it was released, if you came to the music later, you do start somewhere and work backwards and forwards from there non-chronologically. I started at Smiley Smile and SMiLE bootlegs, then took in Pet Sounds, then moved forwards to Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20. Then I stopped. Even by 20/20 there was something I wasn't so keen on, sonically and musically, at that stage — and also, when I was first listening in the mid-90s, I couldn't actually get hold of or hear the albums from Sunflower onwards — they were all out of print! So then I went BACK from Pet Sounds, slowly. At first I couldn't really listen to the 'super-early 60s sounding' stuff (perhaps what Howie calls the stuff too closely associated with the Eisenhower era)... there were just a few tracks on Summer Days and Today that I could listen to and enjoy. I remember that I REALLY disliked Little Deuce Coupe and Be True To Your School. They're still not amongst my favourites. But gradually, my musical appreciation of even that early stuff grew and grew, 'til I pretty much liked it all, and loved some of it very much. Only then did I start going forward through the 70s albums, and it was hard and slow going for me at first. I still don't like the Surf's Up album much, despite all the spotlights that have been on it in recent years, and CATP didn't click with me until last of all, sometime in the late 2000s. I liked BB85 better than I liked that one for ages... (so shoot me)!
|
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:10:05 GMT -5
Have you heard the tapes? Do YOU know what elements were left off the released version? of course not, and I would absolutely love to be proved very wrong and have this Baby Blue remix just blow me out of the water and become the best thing they’ve ever released. My problem is not with what elements are included. My problem is WITH THE TREBLE AND COMPRESSION! It’s headache inducing. The beach boys should not sound like chainsaws, these tracks should not be painful to listen to. With Feel Flows I can EQ adjust the treble myself with any Basic media player, but with these last two tracks that have came out, and the Long Promised Road soundtrack, there are things EQ can’t fix. I have no idea if this is something Mark Linett is doing, The label is doing, the streaming services are doing, but whatever it is it’s not promising for future releases. The pet sounds stereo mix, sunshine tomorrow, wake the world, these all sound absolutely gorgeous, I have no idea what happened within the past two years that hearing anything about Beach Boys “remasters/remixes” gives me a sinking feeling. And this is coming from a young fan who can hear most high frequencies. A newish beach boys fan, the type of fan Who loves new mixes and Dolby Atmos and all of the cool modern stuff you guys are working on and with. If the Feel Flows box-set is any indication, it would seem that this is indeed something that Mark Linett is doing purposefully. The treble and compression on Feel Flows frequently made for an unpleasant listening experience. I'd hoped the backlash might have prompted a change of direction (i.e. a return to the perfectly pleasant audio sound as heard on all previous archive releases) but, alas, this new Marcella remix would suggest Linett and co are doubling down. I just don't understand why. Are they all developing hearing problems? Or is it some wrongheaded 'defying expectations' strategy ('ooh, the hardcore fans aren't happy so we must be doing something right')? Or perhaps they think this sound will appeal to younger audiences? Whatever the reason, the Feel Flows set was pretty expensive, and some of us had to save up our hard-earned cash in order to buy it, and so I think we're at least due an explanation as to why the decision was made to release it with such unpleasant-sounding harsh mastering. There must be some reason why they did it. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:13:44 GMT -5
But it's just so inexcusably bad.Haha! No worries! I agree, it's bloody rotten!
Hearing these new mixes (Celebrate the News on Feel Flows, this new Marcella monstrosity, etc), I'm reminded of that Jeff Goldblum line from Jurassic Park: 'You were so preoccupied with whether or not you could, you didn't stop to think if you should'. The Wilson brothers knew what they were doing. Brian Wilson is arguably the greatest pop producer of all time, and Carl and Dennis weren't far behind. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:20:07 GMT -5
Personally, I LOVE this tracklist. It really offers an eclectic mix of songs that reflects the versatility of the Beach Boys' catalogue - and the inclusion of the mighty Where I Belong on a Beach Boys comp has been long overdue.. Problem is, the new additions ignore what Sounds of Summer was supposed to be. A singles collection. All songs on the original 2003 compilation were US Billboard Top 40 hits, and discs 2 and 3 fail to expand on that concept. The resulting compilation mostly features songs from 1967-1973 that would be generally regarded by casuals as “deep cuts”. Some, like “Surf’s Up” and “Sail On, Sailor” are well-known enough to be considered “hits”. However, there are still lots of “hits” missing from SoS, such as “The Little Girl I Once Knew” and “Lady Lynda”. True, although I think Al has an issue with Lady Lynda doesn't he? I think because it's about his ex. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:22:25 GMT -5
The sheer arrogance of saying such a thing. The definitive version of Baby Blue is the one which Dennis Wilson created. End of story. Not necessarily: pretty much everyone involved with POB will tell you that Dennis rushed the mixes, and that some of the roughs were potentially better. That might well be true, but regardless of whether Dennis slaved over the mixing for months or mixed the entire album in an hour, it's still the version that he, the artist behind the music, chose to release. Rejigging an artist's work after the artist's death and then proclaiming the result to be 'definitive' - that just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:38:25 GMT -5
IS it arrogant? Did Dennis do the absolute final mix on "Baby Blue"? Have you heard the tapes? Do YOU know what elements were left off the released version? I'm not arrogant, nor am I rude. I don't give many compliments but when I do -- they're legit. Go listen to your L.A. two-fer on 6/17. Btw is it really true that the reason the Feel Flows box-set and other new Beach Boys remixes are being subjected to excessive amounts of treble and compression is to appeal to younger listeners? If so, I think this is quite fantastically wrongheaded. I'm 39 myself, but I know of plenty of Beach Boys fans much younger than me (the youngest being 18) and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM dislikes the mastering on the Feel Flows box-set. It makes the Beach Boys music sound cheap, digital and shrill, rather than warm, welcoming and human. And this new Marcella remix suggests the CATP/Holland set is going to replicate the same treble/compression issues. Speaking as someone for whom this music means an enormous amount (the Beach Boys' music literally changed my life, for the better), please, please, PLEASE stop it!! |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 6:47:35 GMT -5
Then you'll be missing out on hearing/owning some sweet unheard music by an awesome band, one which you seem like a great passionate fan of! As to your first question, my guess is the way the music industry currently stands in present time, 2022, and the direction that Brother/Iconic (IAG) want to take the band. A lot has changed since 2012, and even since 2018! Sometimes it's hard to adjust and keep an open mind (myself included), but if the alternate is not getting any new releases at all then I'm grateful for what we do and will get to hear! Problem is, I bought Feel Flows and don’t listen to it. Wasted $100.00 on something that is taking up room on a shelf. Beautiful voices should not sound shrill. I have plenty of Beach Boys music. Cancelling my SOS sale and not buying the new box set will not hurt me in the least. Ditto. 'Beautiful voices should not sound shrill'. That perfectly sums up the sound of much of Feel Flows. I don't care what the stupid reasoning is behind why they're doing it. If they're trying to appeal to a younger audience, well, that's just embarrassing (nothing worse than trying to seem down wid da kids) and it's also fatally wrongheaded (I'm pretty certain most young music fans don't appreciate shrill vocals, excessive compression and insane amounts of treble). It's all really quite heartbreaking for those of us for whom this music means so much. It's the knowledge that Mark Linett and co are capable of producing magic (Pet Sounds Sessions, Smile Sessions, Sunshine Tomorrow, etc) and yet they're purposefully now releasing some of the most important Beach Boys music of all with unpleasant digital-sounding audio. And they're doing it because, er, headphones. Or something. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 7:02:36 GMT -5
Have you heard the tapes? Do YOU know what elements were left off the released version? of course not, and I would absolutely love to be proved very wrong and have this Baby Blue remix just blow me out of the water and become the best thing they’ve ever released. My problem is not with what elements are included. My problem is WITH THE TREBLE AND COMPRESSION! It’s headache inducing. The beach boys should not sound like chainsaws, these tracks should not be painful to listen to. With Feel Flows I can EQ adjust the treble myself with any Basic media player, but with these last two tracks that have came out, and the Long Promised Road soundtrack, there are things EQ can’t fix. I have no idea if this is something Mark Linett is doing, The label is doing, the streaming services are doing, but whatever it is it’s not promising for future releases. The pet sounds stereo mix, sunshine tomorrow, wake the world, these all sound absolutely gorgeous, I have no idea what happened within the past two years that hearing anything about Beach Boys “remasters/remixes” gives me a sinking feeling. And this is coming from a young fan who can hear most high frequencies. A newish beach boys fan, the type of fan Who loves new mixes and Dolby Atmos and all of the cool modern stuff you guys are working on and with. I REALLY hope Howie, Mark Linett and all others involved with these new Beach Boys releases will take notice of what you say here, because you're absolutely 100% right. What has happened in the last couple of years? Why has the lovely sound of Made in California, Sunshine Tomorrow, Smile Sessions, etc. been sacrificed in favour of this unpleasant, treble-heavy, compression-heavy and, above all, very un-Beach Boys-like audio quality? Why are they doing this?? Are we not at least due an explanation given the amount of money we paid for Feel Flows, and are now being asked to pay for Sounds of Summer and CATP/Holland? I would like to know beforehand whether SoS and CATP/Holland will have the same audio issues as Feel Flows. I think we should be told upfront. Because if the answer is, 'yeah, they sure will, because we're appealing to hypothetical tone-deaf youngsters with headphones', then I'll leave my money in my pocket. |
|
|
|
Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 7:13:43 GMT -5
I just listened to the Howie Edelson podcast interview linked above. I hadn't heard that before I posted the stuff above. It was very interesting — I hadn't realised that the new releases are, to a large extent, actively going out of their way to change the sound of some of the older material, and reimagine it for music-listeners who are 22 NOW, in 2022.
That's *inevitably* going to put the cat among the pigeons for some people. Like I said above, if you change music that people have been intimately familiar with for 50 years in some cases, there are going to be some harsh opinions on that. For some it's going to be unacceptable 'messing with the Mona Lisa' and for others it's going to be an interesting new take on an existing piece of art, or even a welcome sonic update to stuff that sounds dated and too old-school for first-time listeners to love. I don't go myself as far as the last of those opinions, but I'll bet there will be some people who do.
It so happens that I personally like some of the results of this new approach to remixing so far, but it's unavoidable that I won't like everything, and that other people will have a completely different set of opinions on it, good and bad. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised at some of the comments here... And actually, I don't agree with everything Howie said*, or share all of his opinions on the things that are 'cool' to focus on in the BB back catalogue — he seems to like the 70s stuff more than me, and the early 60s stuff less. But that's just MY opinion. He recommends 'Do It Again' as the starting point for new listeners, which I like, but has always slightly underwhelmed me. For me, there was no more effective 'gateway drug' to the Beach Boys than the SMiLE material and Pet Sounds... but of course that was ME — and I was 22 back in 1993, so what do I know about what will work for 22-year-olds now?
The bottom line is that it's an approach that is interesting enough for me, as what you might call a third-generation BB fan, to make me spring for the new Sounds Of Summer (where the first generation grew up with the band, the second came in after Endless Summer in the 70s and the third, like me, were piqued by all the Britpop bands name-checking Brian in the mid-90s and the increasingly loud voices of the SMiLE-driven crowd led by Domenic Priore and the guys in the Wondermints). Some will call it a desecration, but they already have the originals. And like Howie said in the podcast, it's not those people that they have to win over. If no 20-somethings start appreciating and buying the music like I did when I was 24, then as amazing as it is, it *will* slowly be forgotten...
MattB
* PS. I totally agree with Howie, though, that unless you were a BB fan from the start and HAD to work your way through their catalogue in real time as it was released, if you came to the music later, you do start somewhere and work backwards and forwards from there non-chronologically. I started at Smiley Smile and SMiLE bootlegs, then took in Pet Sounds, then moved forwards to Wild Honey, Friends and 20/20. Then I stopped. Even by 20/20 there was something I wasn't so keen on, sonically and musically, at that stage — and also, when I was first listening in the mid-90s, I couldn't actually get hold of or hear the albums from Sunflower onwards — they were all out of print! So then I went BACK from Pet Sounds, slowly. At first I couldn't really listen to the 'super-early 60s sounding' stuff (perhaps what Howie calls the stuff too closely associated with the Eisenhower era)... there were just a few tracks on Summer Days and Today that I could listen to and enjoy. I remember that I REALLY disliked Little Deuce Coupe and Be True To Your School. They're still not amongst my favourites. But gradually, my musical appreciation of even that early stuff grew and grew, 'til I pretty much liked it all, and loved some of it very much. Only then did I start going forward through the 70s albums, and it was hard and slow going for me at first. I still don't like the Surf's Up album much, despite all the spotlights that have been on it in recent years, and CATP didn't click with me until last of all, sometime in the late 2000s. I liked BB85 better than I liked that one for ages... (so shoot me)!
In summary, don't get your hopes up about the CATP/Holland box-set, folks, because it's going to sound as bad as the Feel Flows box-set. I don't dispute that Howie's heart is in the right place, but I do strongly dispute that making the Beach Boys music sound shrill, compressed, treble-heavy and unpleasantly digital is going to win over younger listeners. All they're doing is alienating longtime fans and cheapening the music. Young people aren't deaf. |
|
|
|
Post by Steve Mayo on Jun 11, 2022 7:29:03 GMT -5
Jesus-fuckin-a-christ
|
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 7:52:51 GMT -5
IS it arrogant? Did Dennis do the absolute final mix on "Baby Blue"? Have you heard the tapes? Do YOU know what elements were left off the released version? I'm not arrogant, nor am I rude. I don't give many compliments but when I do -- they're legit. Go listen to your L.A. two-fer on 6/17. Btw is it really true that the reason the Feel Flows box-set and other new Beach Boys remixes are being subjected to excessive amounts of treble and compression is to appeal to younger listeners? If so, I think this is quite fantastically wrongheaded. I'm 39 myself, but I know of plenty of Beach Boys fans much younger than me (the youngest being 18) and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM dislikes the mastering on the Feel Flows box-set. It makes the Beach Boys music sound cheap, digital and shrill, rather than warm, welcoming and human. And this new Marcella remix suggests the CATP/Holland set is going to replicate the same treble/compression issues. Speaking as someone for whom this music means an enormous amount (the Beach Boys' music literally changed my life, for the better), please, please, PLEASE stop it!! I think the three message boards and the many groups on Facebook will attest that the old head Beach Boys fans have remained very faithful to the band and that we continued over the years to spend our dollars on new product. Also, as Matthew has stated, young fans would not be thrilled with the sound of these remixes, either. Apparently, they no longer care about us or our money. They should damn well remember that that feeling works both ways. |
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Jun 11, 2022 8:14:18 GMT -5
Sorry but I love those new mix. The 72 and 73 mixes were too "shy". I've always prefered the songs of CATP and Holland on the "in concert" lp than on the studio albums. It seems that something was wrong no? With the original mixes, except for fans like me, no hit were possible... something was missing in term of power.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonesurf on Jun 11, 2022 8:36:35 GMT -5
…
That's *inevitably* going to put the cat among the pigeons for some people….
MattB
Just want to let everyone here know that I’m going to be trying to work Matt’s “cat among the pigeons” line into every conversation that I have today. That’s awesome. |
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 8:46:13 GMT -5
Was it something I said? 😜 |
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jun 11, 2022 8:47:14 GMT -5
I feel that the current pertinent question is, why does (what is presumably) the same audio file sound so grossly different on three sites, viz Spotify, YouTube and Vimeo ? I'm no audiophile but that's just... bizarre.
|
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 8:55:41 GMT -5
Sorry but I love those new mix. The 72 and 73 mixes were too "shy". I've always prefered the songs of CATP and Holland on the "in concert" lp than on the studio albums. It seems that something was wrong no? With the original mixes, except for fans like me, no hit were possible... something was missing in term of power. I like everything that they’re doing with these mixes when it comes to bringing out elements that were hidden before, making them rock a bit, that is not my problem. |
|
