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Post by John Manning on Jun 13, 2022 14:40:16 GMT -5
I feel like coming out.
I like the new mix.
I’m baffled, still, by why it has to have such variance at different streaming sites.
I don’t have Spotify (Spotify and me don’t get along…) and am pretty sure I’m missing out on the best option this far.
I’m not ready to tell my parents this yet.
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Post by Sam_BFC on Jun 13, 2022 17:12:26 GMT -5
Reaction to new Marcella over on Smiley and the Today forum is somewhere between positive and muted.
I don't think reactions to compression/hyped EQ were wrong, but do wonder if things spiraled into something of a frenzy here over the weekend.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 13, 2022 17:40:22 GMT -5
Reaction to new Marcella over on Smiley and the Today forum is somewhere between positive and muted. I don't think reactions to compression/hyped EQ were wrong, but do wonder if things spiraled into something of a frenzy here over the weekend. Maybe, we’re more discerning? 😉
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Post by lonesurf on Jun 13, 2022 17:41:50 GMT -5
I feel like coming out. I like the new mix. I’m baffled, still, by why it has to have such variance at different streaming sites. I don’t have Spotify (Spotify and me don’t get along…) and am pretty sure I’m missing out on the best option this far. I’m not ready to tell my parents this yet. John pretty much sums up my position. As long as we still have access to the original mixes, I don’t care. It’s just another interesting variation. I do use Spotify a lot, and they recently completely replaced Sinatra’s Watertown with a just-released 2022 mix. I like both mixes, but I do now miss having easy access to the previous Watertown mix via streaming. As all of the Beach Boy albums are still available, at least we don’t have this problem with this new release for the Beach Boys.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 4:49:04 GMT -5
I really don't understand what all those complains are about... seriously, this is only a one more compilation, with songs that everyone of us have about 40 times each. No new or unreleased material. None of us need to buy it. I love these mixes, I'll buy it. Those who don't love them, keep listening to the classic mixes. All the things I read here makes me afraid. It makes me think of a sect of dangerous crazy people, who want everybody thinks the same and don't want other people are able to listen what they think is not good for them. That's a pitty, and all this for only one more compilation of songs that everybody, here have in their original mixes. What a crazy discussion, what a hate I can feel here. So sad, for a so beautiful music... How to Gaslight and Diminish Someone Else's Opinion in 6 Easy Steps
Lesson 1) Language is Key When coming up against unwelcome 'opinions' online, try to use reductive and diminishing language. Extra marks for using the words 'hate', 'haters' or 'hating'. See below for some effective examples:- I really don't understandmakes me afraidcrazy discussionwhat a hate I can feel hereSo sadIf you feel particularly threatened by an opinion due to your own feelings of insecurity, why not try framing that opinion as an attack on your freedom of opinion. This will effectively mask the fact that, due to your gaslighting language, this is exactly what YOU are doing to others. See below for an example:- It makes me think of a sect of dangerous crazy people, who want everybody thinks the same and don't want other people are able to listen what they think is not good for them
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Post by E on Jun 14, 2022 5:10:23 GMT -5
Might be nice if we stop having a go at other people because they don't share your opinions - then we will have a toxic board.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 5:14:58 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was attacked for having a differing opinion until the gaslighting started. This is a very tolerant board. I'm happy for anyone to like whatever they want. It's when words like 'hate' and 'haters' start being thrown around that I take umbridge. Language like that is used to shut down discussion and diminish people, and I WILL draw attention to it.
And as DrBeachBoy alluded to most delicately, there are other Beach Boy related sites that will perhaps provide a more welcoming environment if gaslighting is your thing.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2022 5:52:24 GMT -5
I really don't understand what all those complains are about... seriously, this is only a one more compilation, with songs that everyone of us have about 40 times each. No new or unreleased material. None of us need to buy it. I love these mixes, I'll buy it. Those who don't love them, keep listening to the classic mixes. All the things I read here makes me afraid. It makes me think of a sect of dangerous crazy people, who want everybody thinks the same and don't want other people are able to listen what they think is not good for them. That's a pitty, and all this for only one more compilation of songs that everybody, here have in their original mixes. What a crazy discussion, what a hate I can feel here. So sad, for a so beautiful music... How to Gaslight and Diminish Someone Else's Opinion in 6 Easy Steps
Lesson 1) Language is Key When coming up against unwelcome 'opinions' online, try to use reductive and diminishing language. Extra marks for using the words 'hate', 'haters' or 'hating'. See below for some effective examples:- I really don't understandmakes me afraidcrazy discussionwhat a hate I can feel hereSo sadIf you feel particularly threatened by an opinion due to your own feelings of insecurity, why not try framing that opinion as an attack on your freedom of opinion. This will effectively mask the fact that, due to your gaslighting language, this is exactly what YOU are doing to others. See below for an example:- It makes me think of a sect of dangerous crazy people, who want everybody thinks the same and don't want other people are able to listen what they think is not good for themIn the USA - and this is the standard for free speech under challenges to the first amendment of the constitution. The settled cases involve what is called “hate speech.” And the reason it is called “hate speech” is that is what is protected. Now, because there is a movement to suppress constitutional rights we hear about hate speech. The term is subjective. The answer to hate speech or uncomfortable speech that is offensive is more hate speech. It sounds counterintuitive but that is the standard. It is meant to shut down one’s opinion by suppressing that opinion. Hate speech cannot physically hurt you, but it is not a physically assault, which is covered under criminal or tort law. It may not be in good taste, but that is not the issue. It is protected because you could not speak ill of a ruler or be punished. The US was under the rule of a monarch so in disconnecting from that rule, the Constitution was the outgrowth. You can speak ill of a ruler in the US and that is protected speech. There is a movement to get rid of the US Constitution to call into question the bill of rights, which includes freedom of the press, which also falls under first amendment rights. Much of our Declaration of Independence comes from Jean Jacques Rousseau, and almost word-for-word. Jefferson spent a lot of time in France, bringing back many ideas on bridges, roads and the like, for the new United States, as well as reading many of its philosophers.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2022 6:18:57 GMT -5
Might be nice if we stop having a go at other people because they don't share your opinions - then we will have a toxic board. This is not a personal attack. It is a controversy over the level of quality of a product that people are or have been monetarily invested in, for six decades, and a history that is being revised, by someone who is not articulating the actual events, contemporaneous to the music being released, with a production that may not be consistent with its original quality, to attract a potentially illusory niche market, in the future. I don’t believe in crystal balls. I believe that with all the crap generated, slamming them in the 60s, including and especially Brian, the work should be showcased in the best possible form. The stuff that made it hard to be a fan, among your own peer group, all the while knowing that the music and vocals were creatively superior, and would stand the test-of-time. They are being made to sound silly with their “striped shirts” which are now a loving brand of identification. As a 2nd gen fan, I only saw them once in those shirts and a few times in the white suits that apparently were inspired by Paul McCartney with a visit to their studio. (I mistakenly thought it was a visit to Carnaby St. that prompted the suits.) It is not a personal attack. It is, after listening to what a person had to say publicly, in the media, who is a media figure, a “check” or “disagreement” on those historic facts. In my opinion, even if he was hired to do liner notes, which will be there for posterity, perhaps not a good fit for the job based on concerns that he is not fully-versed in that era as he should be. That is all. I don’t generally even read the liner notes because of the small font that comes in a CD pack. I love The Beach Boys music but am not going blind (maybe deaf, blasting the music 🎶) for them. But they are not doing the graphics and font choices. And, the concept of indirectly, or directly, pressuring Grammy-winning sound people? Be the producer they never had? Weren’t Brian, and other band members involved in the production? Hello.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 6:24:41 GMT -5
Beautifully and eloquently put.
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Post by ian on Jun 14, 2022 7:24:26 GMT -5
I’ve met Howie and I agree he can be a little brash but his heart is in the right place. In broad terms-I think it is hard to disagree with his main point-which is that the BBs were for years dismissed by critics as has beens that collapsed after 1967 and never did anything good without Brian. But People like Howie have actively pushed a change in how the BBs are viewed-and this has had an important affect! Today more and more people understand that the BBs continued to make important music for at least five years after 1967 and that they are deserving of the same critical appreciation as The Who and Rolling Stones if not more (I don’t include the Beatles-as like Elvis they were a cultural and historical phenomenon that exists on its own). So yes Howie is a hype but as Brian said in 1973 “I’ve never been a hype “ and for the BBs that became a problem-if they are not going to sell their relevance than outsiders need to do it for them. So I applaud Howie for that. As to mixes-if you are a fan like me-than you still have the twofers, LPs and bootlegs and with digital platforms you can swap out any version you personally don’t like for the one you do-so ultimately it isn’t the end of the world if the mix of Seasons in the Sun sucks!
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 7:40:00 GMT -5
I’ve met Howie and I agree he can be a little brash but his heart is in the right place. In broad terms-I think it is hard to disagree with his main point-which is that the BBs were for years dismissed by critics as has beens that collapsed after 1967 and never did anything good without Brian. But People like Howie have actively pushed a change in how the BBs are viewed-and this has had an important affect! Today more and more people understand that the BBs continued to make important music for at least five years after 1967 and that they are deserving of the same critical appreciation as The Who and Rolling Stones if not more (I don’t include the Beatles-as like Elvis they were a cultural and historical phenomenon that exists on its own). So yes Howie is a hype but as Brian said in 1973 “I’ve never been a hype “ and for the BBs that became a problem-if they are not going to sell their relevance than outsiders need to do it for them. So I applaud Howie for that. As to mixes-if you are a fan like me-than you still have the twofers, LPs and bootlegs and with digital platforms you can swap out any version you personally don’t like for the one you do-so ultimately it isn’t the end of the world if the mix of Seasons in the Sun sucks! Yes, and I can equally see this side of it and do applaud Howie for his hard work in this regard. The post Pet Sounds albums do need mentioning in the same regard as earlier albums, but not at the expense of the earlier work. As I'm sure you'll agree, Howie's hard work however does not excuse him scrutiny for what are extremely inflammatory remarks. As far as I recall though, the critical capital of their later work began to grow after the release of the 1993 boxed set. That set created many 'deep dive' fans. Howie is merely adding his voice to these sentiments. He is not the progenitor of them. That boxed set was the turning point for the band in terms of readdressing their critical standing. It is down to that set that the Beach Boys began to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Beatles et al. That standing hasn't altered since the '90s.
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Post by ian on Jun 14, 2022 7:56:48 GMT -5
Well….I agree that box set was an important first step but it was still mainly preaching to the choir…and for the next seven years there was a lot more dysfunction and the main event became, as has often been the case, “the healing of brother Bri”. Again-I’ll put myself in the oldsters category that Howie mentioned-even though I’m only 50-I don’t buy much new music and i didn’t buy Sounds of Summer or the recent one-they want/need to attract a new generation of fans-that is who sounds of summer hopes to snag
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Post by ian on Jun 14, 2022 8:09:12 GMT -5
By the way that is where magazines like Rolling stone did used to be important. I remember when I Was a teenager my best friend loved Guns and Roses and Nirvana but he was also interested in having “important” and “critically acclaimed “ music of the past-so he’d buy the issue of Rolling Stone with the 300 LPs you must own and through that he ended up owning Every Beatles, Stones, Who, Dylan and Floyd album but when it came to The Beach Boys only one LP was ever on the list-basically everyone implied that all you needed was Pet Sounds and maybe Endless Summer. So a recent list I saw also included Sunflower, Surfs UP and Wild Honey! That is progress and people like Howie are partly responsible!
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2022 8:14:02 GMT -5
Well….I agree that box set was an important first step but it was still mainly preaching to the choir…and for the next seven years there was a lot more dysfunction and the main event became, as has often been the case, “the healing of brother Bri”. Again-I’ll put myself in the oldsters category that Howie mentioned-even though I’m only 50-I don’t buy much new music and i didn’t buy Sounds of Summer or the recent one-they want/need to attract a new generation of fans-that is who sounds of summer hopes to snag One of my kids bought Sounds of Summer in his PX after finishing Basic Training. It was delightful to see that in a store in which I could not shop (because I was not military) but have my kid shop. It was a gift, even though I had all those tracks. But, if you are looking to get both traditional fans and those who are looking for summer party music, it can be tailored to suit both groups, with live tracks and orphan tracks as well. When my kids’ friends were leaving for basic training, they couldn’t have electronics for that time, and I gave them a BB comp CD and never a studio album. But it was first played, and by young-uns, gleefully once they had that freedom to have electronics, as the music of their country they were serving. So there is that market, somewhat driven by country pride (now reviled as “nationalism”) but the greatest hits are what they listen to. I’d use Best of The Brother years Volume 3, in the exceptions to that for me. I wore that out, along with Knebworth, and 72-3 in my car. But this other projected release is mainly CopEx and needs to be faithful as well to the contemporaneous events. It is all glued together; the times and the music.
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Post by ian on Jun 14, 2022 8:28:15 GMT -5
Well I think Cop-Ex is mainly geared at us “oldsters” who want the Unreleased stuff-which is why you can’t count on them being released every year forever -the BBs fan base is aging-your kids are the exception not the rule-my kids (and all their friends) are all about Taylor Swift, ARiana Grande, Katy Perry, Billy Eilish, Lil Nas X, Beyoncé, etc-they will tolerate dad playing a Beach Boys song in the car but they are not downloading it. But again-if the hypers can make the case that certain BBs LPs are must haves if you want to understand American musical history than people of that generation may feel obliged to download some of their albums when they get to college (though honestly this generation does not download albums just songs!)
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 14, 2022 8:35:52 GMT -5
Might be nice if we stop having a go at other people because they don't share your opinions - then we will have a toxic board. …I don’t generally even read the liner notes because of the small font that comes in a CD pack. I love The Beach Boys music but am not going blind (maybe deaf, blasting the music 🎶) for them. But they are not doing the graphics and font choices. … Perhaps they were being sarcastic with the overly large font in the Feel Flows box set booklet to accommodate older 1st generation fans’ vision loss and extra treble mastering to accommodate our assumed hearing loss.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 8:39:29 GMT -5
I totally understand where you're coming from Ian, and mostly agree with you.
I'm not sure where in the world you are based, but here in the UK the '93 set caused quite a stir amongst what we'd describe as the hipster crowd. I was passing acquaintances with the band Dodgy (quire forgotten now, but an indie band). They were tolerant of my Brian Wilson evangelism, but somewhat unconvinced. That is until the '93 set came out. Two years later they were on the Glastonbury stage singing 'Good Vibrations'. Nigel told me his favourite disk was disk 3, which covered Smiley to Holland (without checking). That sentiment seemed true for many new converts and writers.
Admittedly the UK has historically had a different relationship with the Beach Boys though.
Back to Howie though, I bear the man no ill will, and respect his work in ensuring this work is not forgotten. His remarks however, especially the 'producer they never had' however, really angered me.
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Post by ian on Jun 14, 2022 8:39:39 GMT -5
Howie’s liners were fine but a legitimate gripe was the absence of a detailed track by track discussion by Craig or Alan B. A box that really gets into the minutiae needs liners that equally get into it!
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Post by E on Jun 14, 2022 8:39:46 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was attacked for having a differing opinion until the gaslighting started. This is a very tolerant board. I'm happy for anyone to like whatever they want. It's when words like 'hate' and 'haters' start being thrown around that I take umbridge. Language like that is used to shut down discussion and diminish people, and I WILL draw attention to it. Do you actually read your own posts? You just accused someone of gaslighting in the most patronising manner possible: "f you feel particularly threatened by an opinion due to your own feelings of insecurity, why not try framing that opinion as an attack on your freedom of opinion. This will effectively mask the fact that, due to your gaslighting language, this is exactly what YOU are doing to others." And you couldn't resist having a pop at me after that - again, in unduly patronising fashion: "And as DrBeachBoy alluded to most delicately, there are other Beach Boy related sites that will perhaps provide a more welcoming environment if gaslighting is your thing." Disagree, have a different opinion, stick pins in a blu-tak model of mustomax in the privacy of your own home if that's your bag, but a whiny, patronising attack on someone who doesn't share your views doesn't do your argument any credit and plays right into the hands of people who think this board is full of ignorant shit-heads who do nothing but constantly stir.
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Post by dauber on Jun 14, 2022 8:51:49 GMT -5
\they want/need to attract a new generation of fans-that is who sounds of summer hopes to snag
Quoted for truth.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 8:52:39 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was attacked for having a differing opinion until the gaslighting started. This is a very tolerant board. I'm happy for anyone to like whatever they want. It's when words like 'hate' and 'haters' start being thrown around that I take umbridge. Language like that is used to shut down discussion and diminish people, and I WILL draw attention to it. Do you actually read your own posts? You just accused someone of gaslighting in the most patronising manner possible: "f you feel particularly threatened by an opinion due to your own feelings of insecurity, why not try framing that opinion as an attack on your freedom of opinion. This will effectively mask the fact that, due to your gaslighting language, this is exactly what YOU are doing to others." And you couldn't resist having a pop at me after that - again, in unduly patronising fashion: "And as DrBeachBoy alluded to most delicately, there are other Beach Boy related sites that will perhaps provide a more welcoming environment if gaslighting is your thing." Ed, that comment wasn't directed at you, apologies if it appeared that way. It was directed at the poster I was initially lampooning. I do feel these things like gaslighting need highlighting, just as you have highlighted my post for being patronising. Such is the cut and thrust of a healthy online debate, but ultimately you're right. The response to someone trying to shut down discussion shouldn't be to try and to shut them down. I will happily discuss the finer points of my criticism with him if and when he replies. I'm very aware I can be, well...bitchy sometimes. It is a fault. I was annoyed this morning. Ha, and I do read my own posts, repeatedly. Conceit and vanity are also faults, but ones I forgive myself
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Post by E on Jun 14, 2022 9:03:26 GMT -5
Okay. Thanks. We're good now. I get your anger at what's happening with the releases. That much I understand (and appreciate)
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 14, 2022 9:11:15 GMT -5
Okay. Thanks. We're good now. I get your anger at what's happening with the releases. That much I understand (and appreciate) I'm glad we're good. I don't like upsetting people and thus should refrain from posting when feeling irritable
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 14, 2022 9:12:53 GMT -5
…I don’t generally even read the liner notes because of the small font that comes in a CD pack. I love The Beach Boys music but am not going blind (maybe deaf, blasting the music 🎶) for them. But they are not doing the graphics and font choices. … Perhaps they were being sarcastic with the overly large font in the Feel Flows box set booklet to accommodate older 1st generation fans’ vision loss and extra treble mastering to accommodate our assumed hearing loss. Well - I’m a peasant with the download. I have not even seen the main event. 😂
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