Departed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 21:26:16 GMT -5
Pretty much everything:
- there's no real fast/slow divide to the sides...
- it's hardly "A collection of straight ahead, sometimes R&B based rockers": have you heard the second side ? Rockers they ain't...
- the production is not "stripped down some from the previous album"...
- "Gone is the big, dense production of numbers like Surfs Up, Feel Flows, etc.": that's why I asked of you're listening to the same album as I am. The two heavily orchestrated Dennis numbers for starters, and "All This Is That" is pretty lush too.
- "And the album is noticeably short, much like WH.": it's ten minutes, or close to 50%, longer. 34.12 as opposed to 23.58.
So, yeah, pretty much everything.
Ok, Andrew, you got me on that last point (about the playing time). That was a sloppy statement on my part. I never researched the actual timing on the album but rather assumed it was short due to there only being 8 songs. It is still shorter than Surf's Up & Holland, yes? I do stand by the rest of my interpretations. The fast/slow side premise might not be as cut and dried as on Today, but there is a general tendency in that direction. Side 2 is more subdued than side 1. In fact, your second point "rockers they ain't" seems to support my point. Which brings us to my comparison to the Wild Honey album. My "straight ahead, rocker yada yada yada" comment was not meant to be put under a microscope. It was a general statement. Wild Honey had Country Air and Let the Wind Blow, which are far from rockers. But there is a soulful somewhat R&B feel to them. Honestly, I am not attempting to bring CATP up to the level of WH; just making a comparison. You either get it, or don't. Re: "big production": All This is That is not that lush; no more lush than Let the Wind Blow, IMO. I don't hear any Feel Flows on this album.
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Post by filledeplage on Jul 10, 2019 7:06:18 GMT -5
Pretty much everything:
- there's no real fast/slow divide to the sides...
- it's hardly "A collection of straight ahead, sometimes R&B based rockers": have you heard the second side ? Rockers they ain't...
- the production is not "stripped down some from the previous album"...
- "Gone is the big, dense production of numbers like Surfs Up, Feel Flows, etc.": that's why I asked of you're listening to the same album as I am. The two heavily orchestrated Dennis numbers for starters, and "All This Is That" is pretty lush too.
- "And the album is noticeably short, much like WH.": it's ten minutes, or close to 50%, longer. 34.12 as opposed to 23.58.
So, yeah, pretty much everything.
Ok, Andrew, you got me on that last point (about the playing time). That was a sloppy statement on my part. I never researched the actual timing on the album but rather assumed it was short due to there only being 8 songs. It is still shorter than Surf's Up & Holland, yes? I do stand by the rest of my interpretations. The fast/slow side premise might not be as cut and dried as on Today, but there is a general tendency in that direction. Side 2 is more subdued than side 1. In fact, your second point "rockers they ain't" seems to support my point. Which brings us to my comparison to the Wild Honey album. My "straight ahead, rocker yada yada yada" comment was not meant to be put under a microscope. It was a general statement. Wild Honey had Country Air and Let the Wind Blow, which are far from rockers. But there is a soulful somewhat R&B feel to them. Honestly, I am not attempting to bring CATP up to the level of WH; just making a comparison. You either get it, or don't. Re: "big production": All This is That is not that lush; no more lush than Let the Wind Blow, IMO. I don't hear any Feel Flows on this album. CATP - I think can be very deceptive in terms of time length because it has so few tracks. It did not feel out of synch after Surf’s Up - but for that era, a natural progression, not regression to earlier albums, but they were out of the LA music scene for the most part, and maybe freer to have more license to try new stuff... Wild Honey not a rocker - Huh?
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Post by AGD on Jul 10, 2019 10:39:02 GMT -5
CATP is very slightly longer than Surf's Up, very slightly shorter than Holland. What this has to do with the Wild Honey length comparison is beyond me.
As for the "collection of straight ahead... rockers" statement, there's no room for argument there. Only two, three at a push, are even close to rockers. Not putting anything under a microscope at all, just taking what you said at face value and pointing out that's not the case.
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Post by bryand on Aug 7, 2019 8:51:41 GMT -5
CATP has really grown on me over the years. Particularly, "Hold on Dear Brother" and "He Come Down". I used to skip those songs but probably 3 or 4 years ago, they became some of my favorites from that era.
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scorho
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Post by scorho on Feb 14, 2020 18:42:19 GMT -5
It's really weird--I would never list this as one of the best Beach Boys albums, or even one of my favorites, and yet the last several years, it's one of the ones I've played the most. I love its combination of Beach Boys weirdness with not sounding much like a Beach Boys album at all. The vocal arrangement on "He Come Down" blows me away, and yet the song is so incredibly dorky. Kind of encapsulates a certain Beach Boys-ness. "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" is a song I crave at times more than I crave potato chips, whether the song off the album or that live performance on YouTube. "Hold On Dear Brother" was the slowest grower for me, and yet now I find myself playing it in my head fairly often. I love the albums that bookend this release and it's a pretty easy argument to make that they're both much better, but I actually play this one more and I wish they had done one more like it.
I didn't know what I was getting into when, as a teenager, I found the CATP/PS LP at Warped Records in San Lorenzo, CA. At that point, I'd never heard Pet Sounds from start to finish, and I'd never heard anything from CATP. I thought CATP was weird, but it somehow wouldn't let go of me, plus it had some great make-out tunes. Pet Sounds, of course, became the soundtrack of the year I turned 16. I swore that album was about me.
I loved that twofer at the time (when I often alternated sides stacked on my turntable, as we did back then), and love it even more now. Thanks to the magic of digital music, I can play these two albums together any time I want, without having to dig out the LPs.
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Hydra
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Post by Hydra on Apr 24, 2020 12:11:49 GMT -5
A decent album. The album kicks off with an absolute killer track, You Need A Mess Of Help has been one of my favourite Beach Boys songs for a while and it just rocks so hard and I love that banjo in there, Here She Comes sounds like Poco in a good way, really cool song, He Come Down is an interesting and somewhat uplifting song, Marcella is awesome a great rocker, wish it was a bigger hit, Hold On Dear Brother is pretty OK, Make It Good is a gorgeous song and I don't mind the overproduction on it, All This Is That is absolutely amazing and Cuddle Up is absolutely gorgeous, overall a pretty good album
Track Ratings
1. You Need A Mess Of Help 10/10 2. Here She Comes 7/10 3. He Come Down 6/10 4. Marcella 9/10 5. Hold On Dear Brother 5/10 6. Make It Good 8/10 7. All This Is That 10/10 8. Cuddle Up 9/10
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Post by dauber on Jun 16, 2021 15:09:50 GMT -5
yet another of my reviews flown in from PSF...
To be quite honest, So Tough is among the Beach Boys albums in my collection that get the fewest spins. It's weird...I like pretty much all of the songs, but...all of them together...just doesn't work. Not a coherent album.
"You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone" -- nice opener.
"Here She Comes" -- sounds like a leftover from The Flame's self-titled Brother album. Definitely would fit in well with it. That's a great album, too; wish it'd be easy to find on CD.
"He Come Down" -- I really like it when Brian goes gospel...this, "That Same Song," "Walking Down the Path of Life"...but then Mike comes in with that stuff about Maharishi and ruins it all. Ughhh...
"Marcella" -- great, great track, although the In Concert version blows this out of the water. I love hearing Brian do it in concert, and I heard from a pseudo-insider that Brian loves doing it in concert.
"Hold On, Dear Brother" -- again, sounds like another outtake from The Flame. Good tune...but man, have you heard Nate freakin' Ruess's version?? Holy cow!!!
"Make It Good" -- the reason I use the "pretty much" qualifier in my first sentence here. Hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. It drags. It goes nowhere. Dennis was capable of so much better, as evidenced by the closing track...
"All This Is That" -- another song that Mike brings the Maharishi into, but it's quite subtle and still has a great message. Beautiful, beautiful song. Glad they did that in the C50 tour. (Still have no idea what the "C" means.)
"Cuddle Up" -- now, THIS is a Dennis song I can get behind! If I ever get access to a symphony orchestra, I will whip up a nice arrangement of this song. I can hear it all in my head. And of course later on I learned that there's a bit of "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" creeping into this gorgeous track.
Non-music stuff I love about this album: - The production credit - The thank-you to Al's mom
Curiosity about the album: - Why do they still feel the need to use the re-issue cover on current editions of the album? As of 2016, the album itself is for fans like us, not for the mass market, so I'm sure the lack of the giant "THE BEACH BOYS" stencil wouldn't confuse us! (Heck, the Beatles didn't put their name on the Revolver cover, and in fact they had neither the band name nor the album name on the Abbey Road cover!) I thought this stencil thingy first appeared on the 1990 Caribou reissue, but others have told me it was there before that on a previous reissue; I guess it's because the Caribou CDs had that same stencil (in a reddish-brown) on the CD longboxes.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 17, 2021 10:56:56 GMT -5
I don't particularly like this album. The two songs from the new members Ricky and Blondie stop the album dead in its tracks. Boring! Dennis's two songs are so slow - well that advertisement where the listener falls asleep and wakes up to hear Pet Sounds is more apt than they possibly realized. Frankly, the religion in "He Comes Down" turns me off. I never listen to gospel music. The opener "You Need a Mess of Help" is a mess. For me, the album is a great single - "Marcella" b/w "All This is That." It's telling that those were the only two songs The Beach Boys performed live at their 2012 reunion concert.
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Post by ohm on Jul 4, 2021 5:32:01 GMT -5
Have been trying again with CATP this week, but its still not happening for me twenty years since I first heard it, Cuddle Up aside. It doesn't feel like it has any cohesive personality. A collection of disparate recordings, and the Blondie/Ricky contributions feel tagged on. But I'm happy to have my once every few years retry again in 2024.
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Shawn
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Favorite Album: Friends
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Post by Shawn on Jul 4, 2021 11:46:14 GMT -5
CATP has really grown on me over the years. Particularly, "Hold on Dear Brother" and "He Come Down". I used to skip those songs but probably 3 or 4 years ago, they became some of my favorites from that era. Yeah, same with me. For the longest time I thought of this as a middling album, and so tough (pun intended) for me to get in to. A couple decades (!) later and I really appreciate what they were doing here. It now ranks a lot higher in my book and really solidifies the post-Smile - Holland era.
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Post by Moon Dawg on Jul 11, 2021 8:29:07 GMT -5
Random thoughts about CARL & THE PASSIONS - "SO TOUGH"
It's the least of the early seventies albums, but despite some obvious flaws, pretty easy to take.
SURF'S UP had been released Aug 30 1971; why the need to rush this one out in May 1972?
I'm more or less glad this album exists, but maybe the group could have simply held some of these tunes back for the next LP.
I like the cover artwork.
"All This Is That" is pleasant but has never done much for me.
"Make It Good" is emotionally affecting on a level that it difficult to explain. Not a great one, but it can take hold of one's emotions.
Not exactly a flop as is often reported, but less than a hit. #50 peak position with 20 weeks on Billboard's album chart.
HOLLAND and SO TOUGH are figuratively if not literally a double album.
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Post by filledeplage on Jul 11, 2021 11:00:21 GMT -5
Random thoughts about CARL & THE PASSIONS - "SO TOUGH" It's the least of the early seventies albums, but despite some obvious flaws, pretty easy to take. SURF'S UP had been released Aug 30 1971; why the need to rush this one out in May 1972? I'm more or less glad this album exists, but maybe the group could have simply held some of these tunes back for the next LP. I like the cover artwork. "All This Is That" is pleasant but has never done much for me. "Make It Good" is emotionally affecting on a level that it difficult to explain. Not a great one, but it can take hold of one's emotions. Not exactly a flop as is often reported, but less than a hit. #50 peak position with 20 weeks on Billboard's album chart. HOLLAND and SO TOUGH are figuratively if not literally a double album. Agree 100% - I have always thought of those two (Holland and So Tough) as one work.
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Post by Awesoman on Jan 14, 2022 10:10:03 GMT -5
It's a short, rather uneven album but I really liked where they were going with it. I especially liked how the inclusion of Ricky and Blondie into the mix altered (quite dramatically in some aspects) the overall sound of the band and even gave them a little bit of much-needed edge. I think had these guys hung with the band for at least one more studio album after 𝘏𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘥 they could have probably had perfectly melded their sound into the group. Fun little game to play with your friends: play them "Here She Comes" and challenge your friends to guess the band.
Regarding the Dennis songs I'm going to have to admit they're among the least favorite songs of mine that he's done. I know "Cuddle Up" in particular has its fans but I could never really get into it. I'm also not sure I've ever gotten through "Make It Good" in its entirety without falling asleep. Too bad he didn't dust off "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again" or "Carry Me Home" and put those on the album.
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Post by dauber on May 17, 2022 13:23:46 GMT -5
One thing I just can't get past as one possible contribution to the album's lack of sales -- the title. When the album first came out, the name "The Beach Boys" or "Beach Boys" appeared neither on the front cover nor the back cover. It's on the spine and on the label, though. But still, that had to be confusing to people. (When I first encountered the album it threw me off, too, even though I knew that "Carl and the Passions" was the name Brian used for a one-time singing group he formed in order to convince Carl to join.)
And it occurs to me -- I didn't realize until today that even the back cover didn't have the name on it. It is possible that maybe with the addition of Ricky and Blondie and the departure of Bruce -- plus Carl's bigger role -- the band was actually toying with changing their name, and somehow it just stuck? I mean...the way the album is titled implies that this is an album called So Tough by a group called Carl and the Passions. I'm wondering if this could be some bit of band trivia that was lost to history somehow. And maybe the puzzling inclusion of Pet Sounds may have been a way to tell listeners, "Hey, remember this band who did this great album six years ago? They're using a new name now."
I dunno, just a thought.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 17, 2022 16:27:14 GMT -5
Who says "Hey, we're not selling as many albums as we used to. Our last album, though, sold better, due to the title 'Surf's Up' resonating with what made us famous in the first place. How about we just leave our name off the cover this time, and put a fake name nobody's ever heard of? After all, a completely unknown group has a better chance of selling an album than a group with multiple number one hits, doesn't it?"
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Post by E on May 18, 2022 2:04:02 GMT -5
CATP has really grown on me over the years. Particularly, "Hold on Dear Brother" and "He Come Down". I used to skip those songs but probably 3 or 4 years ago, they became some of my favorites from that era. Same with me. I'm no lover of the TM somg (it's not bad, it's juts... I mean) or Mess of Help, for that matter. I would say my favourites are Cuddle Up, All This Is That. Marcella and (don't shout at me) Hold on Dear Brother. LIke other albums of that period (Surf's Up, as The Sauce points out), it's shortish and I wouldn't have objected to the addition of extra tracks even if It's a New Day and Out in the Country are not in the league of those left off Surf's Up (well, the better tracks, obviously). On the other hand, that just gives me the excuse to cobble together the better 'unused' tracks from this period onto a 'Landlocked' disc... Oh yeah... not a fan of the cover. Somebody posted this - on here, maybe, or possibly on the Hoff and while the insert of the lad himself looks a little awkward, I prefer it:
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Post by Awesoman on May 18, 2022 7:49:14 GMT -5
That would have been a pretty nice cover that better encapsulated the overall style and direction of the album. Too bad they didn't go with it if it was indeed a real contender.
And yeah I think this album is better than given credit for. While there may not be any definitively remarkable tracks on here and some songs are clearly better than others, there really isn't anything that comes off sounding really bad or embarrassing. And some of the more folky tracks such as the opener and the aforementioned "Hold On Dear Brother" are quite nice in their own right. Makes me wish the band had tried for an even more rootsy, "earthy" album that incorporated more of a country/blues/folk/bluegrass vibes than even this album did.
But the album could have benefited from having a few more solid tracks included as only 8 songs is a little on the short side.
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stuart
Grommet
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Post by stuart on Sept 27, 2022 21:17:43 GMT -5
I guess I am in the minority on this album. I adore it. “Mess” has some very cool keys and that middle…she don’t know…love it. “Here she comes” grooves,” he come down “ how can you not love the gospel sound? if you aren’t in heaven when Carl ends “this is that “ you are dead inside. And “Cuddle” is my favorite track. I guess that is why there are so many styles of music on this planet. The Beach Boys just happened to be one of the greats.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Sept 28, 2022 8:14:52 GMT -5
It's a solid 4/5 album for me.
There is little coherence to it, but the eclectic-ness is part of its strength. The first side is a bit hit-and-miss (He Come Down meanders all over the place, and seems to be on the verge of collapsing to a standstill midway through) but side two is very strong indeed. I find the criticisms of Dennis's songs often tend to miss the entire point of them.
You Need a Mess of Help - 4/5 Here She Comes - 3/5 He Come Down - 2/5 Marcella - 5/5
Hold On Dear Brother - 4/5 Make It Good - 4/5 All This Is That - 5/5 Cuddle Up - 5/5
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Post by esqeditor on Oct 1, 2022 23:49:01 GMT -5
The FALL 2022 edition of Endless Summer Quarterly Magazine (Issue #139) focuses on The Beach Boys Carl and the Passions – So Tough album. This edition includes a rare and in-depth look at this versatile timeline in the group's career. Interviews with Mike Love, Al Jardine, and Blondie Chaplin are included. This issue also includes album sessionography and interviews with Jon Parks and Chip Rachlin, and an archival February 1972 Q&A with the late Carl Wilson. Individual issues are now available— esquarterly.com/esq-store/fall-2022-issue-139-carl-and-the-passions-so-tough/ Attachments:
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stuart
Grommet
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Post by stuart on Oct 5, 2022 16:40:24 GMT -5
My only problem with this issue is that I read it already…..🥺
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 11, 2022 19:57:48 GMT -5
7/10 The interim step between Surf’s Up and Holland feels sort of half baked to me. I think there are some great songs on it (Here She Comes, Marcella, All This is That, Make it Good, which I prefer it over Cuddle Up, but Cuddle Up is also nice.) It’s a nice listen all the way through, nothing I want to skip. Like I said with Holland, I think the addition of Blondie and Ricky was a good idea and here it’s a step in the right direction, but they don’t find themselves as a unified group until Holland. And of course, CATP is way too short. Knowing what they had lying around, left off Surf’s Up, it’s unfortunate that they held back. I think you've nailed it. I'd go 6/10 for the same reasons as it's more of an EP than a LP and needed to be flushed out. There is no central theme and it's a bit pre-Ricky and Blondie mixed with an introduction to the new line-up. In today's music world, that'd be done quite differently, but this seems reflective of it's time, if a bit rushed to market. You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone is a good opener, and seeing it done live on Youtube at that time shows the production stripped it of its energy a bit. Marcella is an outstanding track, and should've been a hit and I appreciate the Fataar/Chaplin led tracks (I'm a fan of Hold On Dear Brother). And the harmonies on All This Is That….just beautiful. Hearing the accapella version is literally transcendent.
There is potential aplenty on the album, but it feels a bit rushed as a work of art and it lacks the coherence that will come shortly with Holland from the new line-up. Like a lot of Beach Boys work, there was the potential for something more here. This is more a collection of 8 songs than a true album. Liking some of the dishes does not always mean a great overall dining experience.
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