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Post by Awesoman on Nov 14, 2022 11:20:00 GMT -5
Never realized it was Bruce's idea to use Levine but *of course* that makes since. You could always count on the guy to come up with some clueless attempts at cashing in on whatever was popular at the time. You'd think the band might be weary of his ideas after he came up with the dreadful disco-fied version of "Here Comes the Night", but clearly that was not the case. I remember in the early 2000's Bruce kept talking up his idea of a new version of "Surfin'" in the style of Britney Spears' pop sound. Did that ever get released? As for Levine, he doesn't actually seem like a bad guy and years later in an interview shared some interesting stories from recording the 1985 album with the band. Bruce had some instincts that shouldn't have been trusted, especially in hindsight. They did record an updated Surfin', not in Brittany Speaks pop sound, but that awful early 90s overly produced style complete with I'm Too Sexy drums and John Stamos. I think this debacle is 100% on Mike and Terry Melcher though.
I'm not referring to the 1992 version; sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's Bruce was mentioning in interviews that they had recorded yet another version of the song around the time that Britney Spears was popular that was supposedly an attempt to emulate the pop boom that was taking place at the time. Assuming that it was ever recorded or just an idea he had I was never fully clear.
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 14, 2022 15:13:52 GMT -5
Bruce had some instincts that shouldn't have been trusted, especially in hindsight. They did record an updated Surfin', not in Brittany Speaks pop sound, but that awful early 90s overly produced style complete with I'm Too Sexy drums and John Stamos. I think this debacle is 100% on Mike and Terry Melcher though.
I'm not referring to the 1992 version; sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's Bruce was mentioning in interviews that they had recorded yet another version of the song around the time that Britney Spears was popular that was supposedly an attempt to emulate the pop boom that was taking place at the time. Assuming that it was ever recorded or just an idea he had I was never fully clear. I am simultaneously afraid it was recorded and also deeply curious to hear it if it was. If they could release that '92 version, well, hard to imagine.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 14, 2022 15:48:38 GMT -5
Bruce had some instincts that shouldn't have been trusted, especially in hindsight. They did record an updated Surfin', not in Brittany Speaks pop sound, but that awful early 90s overly produced style complete with I'm Too Sexy drums and John Stamos. I think this debacle is 100% on Mike and Terry Melcher though.
I'm not referring to the 1992 version; sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's Bruce was mentioning in interviews that they had recorded yet another version of the song around the time that Britney Spears was popular that was supposedly an attempt to emulate the pop boom that was taking place at the time. Assuming that it was ever recorded or just an idea he had I was never fully clear. It is not the music but the production which was mostly a function of the newer technologies of the times. Dude has a Grammy. So he did something right. A lot of show-biz and music is the game of chance. You do your best and cross your fingers that it flies. Big mistake that some version of Kokomo was not on the CD. The artwork screams Kokomo. And SIP done live is a great track. (Sorry that was not on topic for the ‘85 album)
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 14, 2022 16:18:03 GMT -5
I'm not referring to the 1992 version; sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's Bruce was mentioning in interviews that they had recorded yet another version of the song around the time that Britney Spears was popular that was supposedly an attempt to emulate the pop boom that was taking place at the time. Assuming that it was ever recorded or just an idea he had I was never fully clear. Dude has a Grammy. So does Milli Vanilli.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 14, 2022 16:29:46 GMT -5
Milli Vanilli is not a member of The Beach Boys in that context.
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 14, 2022 18:22:27 GMT -5
Milli Vanilli is not a member of The Beach Boys in that context. You said, "dude has a grammy. So he did something right." I merely pointed out that winning a Grammy does not always equate to artistic merit. But I do fully admit to despising "I Write the Songs" and would prefer "Girl You Know It's True" on a loop for 3-years over the pablum. Not a Bruce fan. Obviously.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 14, 2022 19:41:18 GMT -5
Milli Vanilli is not a member of The Beach Boys in that context. You said, "dude has a grammy. So he did something right." I merely pointed out that winning a Grammy does not always equate to artistic merit. But I do fully admit to despising "I Write the Songs" and would prefer "Girl You Know It's True" on a loop for 3-years over the pablum. Not a Bruce fan. Obviously.
And I present to you the song that beat out Good Virbrations in 1967 for Best Vocal Group Performance.
So in the ‘85 era, what would you have them do? There was an obvious vacuum without Dennis. What does a music work group do in that situation? And how does someone in their 40s (in 1985) gauge what will work? Do you watch TV to see what kids are doing to stay in that same groove? Hang out in a malt shop (non existent by then.) Foster’s Freeze in your 40s, like a weirdo? Or, go straight contemporary adult music? By then they were chasing their own kids around. Do you keep touring based on your hits, or do you at least try to stay in the game? No one was more surprised by their resurgence in the mid 70s post war than they were. Ultimately touring saved them until Kokomo - another massive surprise. They got lucky. And, let’s not forget that they got blackballed when they broke off with their own company around ‘66. Does that translate into song of the year loss to something so incredibly insipid such as Winchester Cathedral? Something to discuss. Anita Kerr, Moon River (that Andy Williams stamped, pretty much he owned it?) Ok. Nearly every band that was around in the 60s had folded or gave it up during disco because they could not maintain the momentum without crafting a formula (that word) that worked for them. Even the Beatles were gone by ‘71 or so. There is a lot to be said for that Grammy song, even if you don’t like it, for Manilow, to cover that song, who had magnificent stuff of his own, such as Could it Be Magic that was a sort of a rip off of a Chopin prelude, (Prelude in C minor, opus 28, number 20.)
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 14, 2022 20:36:23 GMT -5
So in the ‘85 era, what would you have them do? There was an obvious vacuum without Dennis. What does a music work group do in that situation? And how does someone in their 40s (in 1985) gauge what will work? Do you watch TV to see what kids are doing to stay in that same groove? Hang out in a malt shop (non existent by then.) Foster’s Freeze in your 40s, like a weirdo? Or, go straight contemporary adult music? By then they were chasing their own kids around. Do you keep touring based on your hits, or do you at least try to stay in the game? No one was more surprised by their resurgence in the mid 70s post war than they were. Ultimately touring saved them until Kokomo - another massive surprise. They got lucky. And, let’s not forget that they got blackballed when they broke off with their own company around ‘66. Does that translate into song of the year loss to something so incredibly insipid such as Winchester Cathedral? Something to discuss. Anita Kerr, Moon River (that Andy Williams stamped, pretty much he owned it?) Ok. Nearly every band that was around in the 60s had folded or gave it up during disco because they could not maintain the momentum without crafting a formula (that word) that worked for them. Even the Beatles were gone by ‘71 or so. There is a lot to be said for that Grammy song, even if you don’t like it, for Manilow, to cover that song, who had magnificent stuff of his own, such as Could it Be Magic that was a sort of a rip off of a Chopin prelude, (Prelude in C minor, opus 28, number 20.) That's a great question. I think chasing trends is really fool's gold. The Beach Boys did that a bit, but I do think the real turning point was Mike gaining control and negating the Wilson brothers and their more artistic motivations. Mike has a good instinct for commercialism, especially with the live shows. The '85 album was a good and honest attempt at capturing a sense of nostalgia and connecting that to a more contemporary sound. I just think they chose a "producer of the moment" and not someone who could help identify their strengths and bring that forward. I also think Getcha Back is a better "hit" than Kokomo so it's all a matter of timing and luck. Levine's production didn't age well. I do think that could've been predicted in 1985. Had the album been a hit, who cares. Hindsight is always 20/20.
As it stands, I like the approach they were trying in 1985. Just made a bad choice in a producer (in my view). Trying for some MTV connection (that was everything in 1985), trying to get another hit to keep the crowd fresh and coming to live shows where they really make a living, it makes a ton of sense. Adult-contemporary probably would've been a better outlet in hindsight. Jump into the R&B world a bit with the Commodores or Kool and the Gang, and even bands like Starship and Chicago were charting. Heck, Dionne Warwick has a big hit in 1985. There was an opportunity. But I'm not one who thinks Bruce has a good finger on the pulse of the market. As you said, Dennis is gone, as is Brian, and the locus of power is elsewhere. Kokomo was what they were trying to do on 1985. So there's the proof that they could still be relevant even if you might hate the song (I do not. It's overplayed. That's a different thing). Personally, in 1985, I would've loved to see the group work with Trevor Horn. It would've been a shot at artistic relevancy and less at a nostalgic connection.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 14, 2022 20:56:46 GMT -5
So in the ‘85 era, what would you have them do? There was an obvious vacuum without Dennis. What does a music work group do in that situation? And how does someone in their 40s (in 1985) gauge what will work? Do you watch TV to see what kids are doing to stay in that same groove? Hang out in a malt shop (non existent by then.) Foster’s Freeze in your 40s, like a weirdo? Or, go straight contemporary adult music? By then they were chasing their own kids around. Do you keep touring based on your hits, or do you at least try to stay in the game? No one was more surprised by their resurgence in the mid 70s post war than they were. Ultimately touring saved them until Kokomo - another massive surprise. They got lucky. And, let’s not forget that they got blackballed when they broke off with their own company around ‘66. Does that translate into song of the year loss to something so incredibly insipid such as Winchester Cathedral? Something to discuss. Anita Kerr, Moon River (that Andy Williams stamped, pretty much he owned it?) Ok. Nearly every band that was around in the 60s had folded or gave it up during disco because they could not maintain the momentum without crafting a formula (that word) that worked for them. Even the Beatles were gone by ‘71 or so. There is a lot to be said for that Grammy song, even if you don’t like it, for Manilow, to cover that song, who had magnificent stuff of his own, such as Could it Be Magic that was a sort of a rip off of a Chopin prelude, (Prelude in C minor, opus 28, number 20.) That's a great question. I think chasing trends is really fool's gold. The Beach Boys did that a bit, but I do think the real turning point was Mike gaining control and negating the Wilson brothers and their more artistic motivations. Mike has a good instinct for commercialism, especially with the live shows. The '85 album was a good and honest attempt at capturing a sense of nostalgia and connecting that to a more contemporary sound. I just think they chose a "producer of the moment" and not someone who could help identify their strengths and bring that forward. I also think Getcha Back is a better "hit" than Kokomo so it's all a matter of timing and luck. Levine's production didn't age well. I do think that could've been predicted in 1985. Had the album been a hit, who cares. Hindsight is always 20/20.
As it stands, I like the approach they were trying in 1985. Just made a bad choice in a producer (in my view). Trying for some MTV connection (that was everything in 1985), trying to get another hit to keep the crowd fresh and coming to live shows where they really make a living, it makes a ton of sense. Adult-contemporary probably would've been a better outlet in hindsight. Jump into the R&B world a bit with the Commodores or Kool and the Gang, and even bands like Starship and Chicago were charting. Heck, Dionne Warwick has a big hit in 1985. There was an opportunity. But I'm not one who thinks Bruce has a good finger on the pulse of the market. As you said, Dennis is gone, as is Brian, and the locus of power is elsewhere. Kokomo was what they were trying to do on 1985. So there's the proof that they could still be relevant even if you might hate the song (I do not. It's overplayed. That's a different thing). Personally, in 1985, I would've loved to see the group work with Trevor Horn. It would've been a shot at artistic relevancy and less at a nostalgic connection.
The whole Kokomo thing, I used my students (pre-K) and my own kids as a barometer. First, is this Full House dynamic that spilled over everywhere. Getcha Back was kind of “hooky” - and in the jukeboxes, in restaurants and bars. Go figure. One hit comes via your kids and the other comes along the traditional radio and jukebox way. The trick is to get your sound coming out of a car stereo - but the film/TV show was another dynamic. Nothing you could predict. The key is that they stayed in the game and kept touring. Dennis was gone. Shock to them and shock to us. For a long time, Carl would sing some of Dennis’ stuff. So not unlike GOK which, of course would be in the set list, it is also a nod to Carl. But we don’t get to pick the direction someone else goes in. We can only choose for ourselves. I would not have wanted to be in their shoes, when critics were very quick to refer to them as washed-up. Honestly, I know little about the producer you mentioned. He was not even on my radar screen at that time.
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 14, 2022 21:02:19 GMT -5
That's a great question. I think chasing trends is really fool's gold. The Beach Boys did that a bit, but I do think the real turning point was Mike gaining control and negating the Wilson brothers and their more artistic motivations. Mike has a good instinct for commercialism, especially with the live shows. The '85 album was a good and honest attempt at capturing a sense of nostalgia and connecting that to a more contemporary sound. I just think they chose a "producer of the moment" and not someone who could help identify their strengths and bring that forward. I also think Getcha Back is a better "hit" than Kokomo so it's all a matter of timing and luck. Levine's production didn't age well. I do think that could've been predicted in 1985. Had the album been a hit, who cares. Hindsight is always 20/20.
As it stands, I like the approach they were trying in 1985. Just made a bad choice in a producer (in my view). Trying for some MTV connection (that was everything in 1985), trying to get another hit to keep the crowd fresh and coming to live shows where they really make a living, it makes a ton of sense. Adult-contemporary probably would've been a better outlet in hindsight. Jump into the R&B world a bit with the Commodores or Kool and the Gang, and even bands like Starship and Chicago were charting. Heck, Dionne Warwick has a big hit in 1985. There was an opportunity. But I'm not one who thinks Bruce has a good finger on the pulse of the market. As you said, Dennis is gone, as is Brian, and the locus of power is elsewhere. Kokomo was what they were trying to do on 1985. So there's the proof that they could still be relevant even if you might hate the song (I do not. It's overplayed. That's a different thing). Personally, in 1985, I would've loved to see the group work with Trevor Horn. It would've been a shot at artistic relevancy and less at a nostalgic connection.
The whole Kokomo thing, I used my students (pre-K) and my own kids as a barometer. First, is this Full House dynamic that spilled over everywhere. Getcha Back was kind of “hooky” - and in the jukeboxes, in restaurants and bars. Go figure. One hit comes via your kids and the other comes along the traditional radio and jukebox way. The trick is to get your sound coming out of a car stereo - but the film/TV show was another dynamic. Nothing you could predict. The key is that they stayed in the game and kept touring. Dennis was gone. Shock to them and shock to us. For a long time, Carl would sing some of Dennis’ stuff. So not unlike GOK which, of course would be in the set list, it is also a nod to Carl. But we don’t get to pick the direction someone else goes in. We can only choose for ourselves. I would not have wanted to be in their shoes, when critics were very quick to refer to them as washed-up. Honestly, I know little about the producer you mentioned. He was not even on my radar screen at that time. Trevor Horn was the guy in the Buggles, Art of Noise and Yes. Starts producing bands like ABC, Spandau Ballet, Pet Shop Boys, Seal, and even did a little single with Barry Manilow - Could It Be Magic. How funny is that!
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 14, 2022 22:04:39 GMT -5
I think of the period around 1985 as being dominated by bright, sunny, frivolous pop music. That's not all there was, but it was a dominant strain in 1985. The Beach Boys could have tried to do Surf's Up Part Two, or Carl and the Pastimes - So Rough; I think they made the right decision to do a pop album. I also think they were right to try to tap into the changes in technology. Did it result in a million selling album? No. Did it bring them a string of top ten hits? No, but it did better on the charts than anything since 15 Big Ones, and got them back on the radio. It's not like they weren't being heard from in the second half of the 80's - Getcha Back, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Wipe Out, Kokomo, Still Cruisin'. They were a presence in pop culture all through the decade.
Even some artists who never seemed to do wrong commercially eventually stop making it on the pop charts. Paul McCartney had a steady stream of hits through the 80's - Coming Up (with Wings), Ebony and Ivory, Take it Away, So Bad, No More Lonely Nights, My Brave Face, and two collaborations with Michael Jackson - the Girl is Mine and Say Say Say. He never had another top ten pop hit after Spies Like Us in 1985. George Harrison had that big comeback hit in 1987 with Got My Mind Set On You; When We Was Fab went top 20. And that was pretty much it for George, other than the Wilburys albums.
No one stays on top forever; I think the 85 album is a solid effort; what was disappointing was that they made no serious effort to follow it up, and even a #1 single couldn't motivate them to do another all-new album.
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Post by E on Nov 15, 2022 4:30:04 GMT -5
It's a solid, mostly unambitious album, but there are several songs on it I enjoy and one, Where I Belong, that I think is a cut above, whatever you may think of the production/arrangement. Rough as Bruce sounds, I also enjoy his She Believes in Love Again and Carl's It's Gettin' Late. Getcha Back works way better than other nostalgic songs because it doesn't have forced lyrics shoe-horning in references to their glory days. It's about looking back on a failed romance, yearning for another chance and the music seems to be a nod to those days. You may not care for Mike's whine, but for me, the song is one of the better ones on the album. Carl's Maybe I Don't Know is okay, but is in that same AOR groove as his second album, which isn't a plus on the whole. Brian's best song is the one that wasn't on the original album. The other two sound like the kind of nostalgic throwaways that he knocked off during the early days of his second Landy period and both would have detracted considerably from his first album had they wound up on it. When it was first released, I enjoyed California Calling, now I can't bear it's forced nostalgia - and I like the music about as much as I like Crack at Your Love or the two covers. I Do Love You has to be one of Wonder's dreariest songs from his fallow days and Passing Friend would've worked better as a Culture Club song. The highlights of most of the album are found in the vocals by Carl and Al, as they would be on SIP. Probably on a par with MIU (maybe slightly better...) because of the good stuff, but about a 5/10 and definitely more highlights than KTSA, Still Cruisin (the new stuff) and SIP
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 15, 2022 9:08:32 GMT -5
I think of the period around 1985 as being dominated by bright, sunny, frivolous pop music. That's not all there was, but it was a dominant strain in 1985. The Beach Boys could have tried to do Surf's Up Part Two, or Carl and the Pastimes - So Rough; I think they made the right decision to do a pop album. I also think they were right to try to tap into the changes in technology. Did it result in a million selling album? No. Did it bring them a string of top ten hits? No, but it did better on the charts than anything since 15 Big Ones, and got them back on the radio. It's not like they weren't being heard from in the second half of the 80's - Getcha Back, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Wipe Out, Kokomo, Still Cruisin'. They were a presence in pop culture all through the decade. Even some artists who never seemed to do wrong commercially eventually stop making it on the pop charts. Paul McCartney had a steady stream of hits through the 80's - Coming Up (with Wings), Ebony and Ivory, Take it Away, So Bad, No More Lonely Nights, My Brave Face, and two collaborations with Michael Jackson - the Girl is Mine and Say Say Say. He never had another top ten pop hit after Spies Like Us in 1985. George Harrison had that big comeback hit in 1987 with Got My Mind Set On You; When We Was Fab went top 20. And that was pretty much it for George, other than the Wilburys albums. No one stays on top forever; I think the 85 album is a solid effort; what was disappointing was that they made no serious effort to follow it up, and even a #1 single couldn't motivate them to do another all-new album. 1985 was an interesting year. Yes, Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go was "bright, sunny, frivolous," but you also had Dire Straits, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, etc. And it was Boomer nostalgia time. Nostalgia always seems to run about 2 decades past, not three, so the 70s looked to the 50s, the 80s to the 60s, etc. The timing for the Beach Boys was there and it happened with Kokomo in '88. Mike tried to push that too far with Summer in Paradise as the Boomer nostalgia was over. I think Beach Boys 1985 was overproduced, even for the time, but it was the right idea. They got decent airplay on AC radio, avoided the "I wonder what happened to...." conversations, and their concerts were still selling big-time. I give it credit as it seemed a more honest attempt than MIU, LA, and KTSA. I'm not a Boomer, so that 80s nostalgia thing went right past me. I just remember seeing the Beach Boys singing Wipeout with the Fat Boys (1987) and just despising that cloying nostalgia and seemingly desperate attempt to connect to the "youth". After 1985, they seemed to be just trying one-of singles and soundtrack pieces. Still Cruisin' was just a hodgepodge collection. That's a bigger choice I'm not sure I get without really understanding the group's dynamics.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 15, 2022 10:32:16 GMT -5
I think of the period around 1985 as being dominated by bright, sunny, frivolous pop music. That's not all there was, but it was a dominant strain in 1985. The Beach Boys could have tried to do Surf's Up Part Two, or Carl and the Pastimes - So Rough; I think they made the right decision to do a pop album. I also think they were right to try to tap into the changes in technology. Did it result in a million selling album? No. Did it bring them a string of top ten hits? No, but it did better on the charts than anything since 15 Big Ones, and got them back on the radio. It's not like they weren't being heard from in the second half of the 80's - Getcha Back, Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue, California Dreamin', Wipe Out, Kokomo, Still Cruisin'. They were a presence in pop culture all through the decade. Even some artists who never seemed to do wrong commercially eventually stop making it on the pop charts. Paul McCartney had a steady stream of hits through the 80's - Coming Up (with Wings), Ebony and Ivory, Take it Away, So Bad, No More Lonely Nights, My Brave Face, and two collaborations with Michael Jackson - the Girl is Mine and Say Say Say. He never had another top ten pop hit after Spies Like Us in 1985. George Harrison had that big comeback hit in 1987 with Got My Mind Set On You; When We Was Fab went top 20. And that was pretty much it for George, other than the Wilburys albums. No one stays on top forever; I think the 85 album is a solid effort; what was disappointing was that they made no serious effort to follow it up, and even a #1 single couldn't motivate them to do another all-new album. 1985 was an interesting year. Yes, Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go was "bright, sunny, frivolous," but you also had Dire Straits, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, etc. And it was Boomer nostalgia time. Nostalgia always seems to run about 2 decades past, not three, so the 70s looked to the 50s, the 80s to the 60s, etc. The timing for the Beach Boys was there and it happened with Kokomo in '88. Mike tried to push that too far with Summer in Paradise as the Boomer nostalgia was over. I think Beach Boys 1985 was overproduced, even for the time, but it was the right idea. They got decent airplay on AC radio, avoided the "I wonder what happened to...." conversations, and their concerts were still selling big-time. I give it credit as it seemed a more honest attempt than MIU, LA, and KTSA. I'm not a Boomer, so that 80s nostalgia thing went right past me. I just remember seeing the Beach Boys singing Wipeout with the Fat Boys (1987) and just despising that cloying nostalgia and seemingly desperate attempt to connect to the "youth". After 1985, they seemed to be just trying one-of singles and soundtrack pieces. Still Cruisin' was just a hodgepodge collection. That's a bigger choice I'm not sure I get without really understanding the group's dynamics. By ‘85 most boomers (even young boomers) had families and were bombarded with Disney or Sesame St. as their music. Only in those precious stolen moments could you sneak in any rock. What changed things later in the 80s right along with Kokomo was VH1 and MTV. The kids could watch along with their tv heroes in the videos including the Full House deal. We weren’t “listening” to music so much as “watching” music. The visual was creeping to music. Boomers, even young ones knew that high school was gone and wasn’t coming back. The older boomers had teens and pre-teens whose music you mention above. Even the younger kids were watching MTV and VH1 and being introduced to music that was once reserved for the transistor radio via the TV.
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 15, 2022 11:39:45 GMT -5
Paul McCartney had a steady stream of hits through the 80's - Coming Up (with Wings), Ebony and Ivory, Take it Away, So Bad, No More Lonely Nights, My Brave Face, and two collaborations with Michael Jackson - the Girl is Mine and Say Say Say. He never had another top ten pop hit after Spies Like Us in 1985. McCartney’s 1987 single “Once Upon a Long Ago” hit number 10 in the UK (but wasn’t even released in the US). Ten out of eleven McCartney studio albums of new original material released since 1985 were in the top 10 in the UK, and four of those also in the US. Two live albums since 1985 were in the top ten. Three or four singles which were collaborations with such artists as Kanye West and Rihanna went top ten, even all the way to number one in the 2010s.
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 15, 2022 14:25:34 GMT -5
1985 was an interesting year. Yes, Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go was "bright, sunny, frivolous," but you also had Dire Straits, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, etc. And it was Boomer nostalgia time. Nostalgia always seems to run about 2 decades past, not three, so the 70s looked to the 50s, the 80s to the 60s, etc. The timing for the Beach Boys was there and it happened with Kokomo in '88. Mike tried to push that too far with Summer in Paradise as the Boomer nostalgia was over. I think Beach Boys 1985 was overproduced, even for the time, but it was the right idea. They got decent airplay on AC radio, avoided the "I wonder what happened to...." conversations, and their concerts were still selling big-time. I give it credit as it seemed a more honest attempt than MIU, LA, and KTSA. I'm not a Boomer, so that 80s nostalgia thing went right past me. I just remember seeing the Beach Boys singing Wipeout with the Fat Boys (1987) and just despising that cloying nostalgia and seemingly desperate attempt to connect to the "youth". After 1985, they seemed to be just trying one-of singles and soundtrack pieces. Still Cruisin' was just a hodgepodge collection. That's a bigger choice I'm not sure I get without really understanding the group's dynamics. By ‘85 most boomers (even young boomers) had families and were bombarded with Disney or Sesame St. as their music. Only in those precious stolen moments could you sneak in any rock. What changed things later in the 80s right along with Kokomo was VH1 and MTV. The kids could watch along with their tv heroes in the videos including the Full House deal. We weren’t “listening” to music so much as “watching” music. The visual was creeping to music. Boomers, even young ones knew that high school was gone and wasn’t coming back. The older boomers had teens and pre-teens whose music you mention above. Even the younger kids were watching MTV and VH1 and being introduced to music that was once reserved for the transistor radio via the TV. '85 and I'm not even thinking about a family. Maybe accidentally knocking up my girlfriend, so my perspective in 1985 is different. My sister had Surf's Up when I was a kid and she got me Endless Summer for Christmas. MTV was everything, especially when you grew up with Monkees re-runs, and it seemed odd to me that a group wouldn't have a visual attached to their music. And any association with Full House and John Stamos was a huge negative.
I got more into the early Beach Boys because of the Ramones, oddly enough. They were essentially early Beach Boys songs, just with louder guitars and distortion. Beach Boys 1985 seemed targeted at an older audience, but trying for that Steve Buschemi "connecting to the kids" meme. The Beach Boys were boomer music. But don't discount that a lot of Gen X got into them because we could see the connections to what was more relevant then. The Ramones covered Surfin' Safari, and did a lot of covers of Boomer music that really lent itself to that "three chords and the truth" mindset of punk. Bands were trying to recreate that Aerosmith/Run DMC thing, so Wipeout with the Fat Boys was way too obvious an attempt. They should've done a reworking of Wild Honey with the Replacements. They used to cover Help Me Rhonda in shows. The alt bands in the 80s and 90s loved the Beach Boys, and not ironically.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 15, 2022 15:13:20 GMT -5
Paul McCartney had a steady stream of hits through the 80's - Coming Up (with Wings), Ebony and Ivory, Take it Away, So Bad, No More Lonely Nights, My Brave Face, and two collaborations with Michael Jackson - the Girl is Mine and Say Say Say. He never had another top ten pop hit after Spies Like Us in 1985. McCartney’s 1987 single “Once Upon a Long Ago” hit number 10 in the UK (but wasn’t even released in the US). Ten out of eleven McCartney studio albums of new original material released since 1985 were in the top 10 in the UK, and four of those also in the US. Two live albums since 1985 were in the top ten. Three or four singles which were collaborations with such artists as Kanye West and Rihanna went top ten, even all the way to number one in the 2010s. The last time I heard a new McCartney song on the radio was Hope Of Deliverance - and that was early 1993. His albums still attain high chart positions, as do many boomer artists.
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Post by Maci Eascra on Nov 15, 2022 15:33:33 GMT -5
McCartney’s 1987 single “Once Upon a Long Ago” hit number 10 in the UK (but wasn’t even released in the US). Ten out of eleven McCartney studio albums of new original material released since 1985 were in the top 10 in the UK, and four of those also in the US. Two live albums since 1985 were in the top ten. Three or four singles which were collaborations with such artists as Kanye West and Rihanna went top ten, even all the way to number one in the 2010s. The last time I heard a new McCartney song on the radio was Hope Of Deliverance - and that was early 1993. His albums still attain high chart positions, as do many boomer artists. Radio and charting is damn near irrelevant in today's music business. You can connect with your audiences much more directly through streaming, build a personal connection through social media, fan clubs, events, etc., and there are artists now selling out big arenas who you'll never hear on the radio. A musician I chatted with told me the big switch in mindset was this - you used to have to tour to try to sell an album (CD, cassette, etc.). The money was in the number of units moved and your touring supported sales. Now you want people to listen, to connect and a CD, album, etc. is sort of like a business card to sell concert tickets, as that's where the money is today. In a weird way, the Beach Boys were forerunners as they could still pack a house even when an album wasn't selling. That's more possible now for so-called heritage acts, but they were doing this well before it was even a nostalgia thing. 10.6 million monthly listens. Artists don't make much off streaming, but that's putting people in seats.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 15, 2022 22:06:33 GMT -5
The last time I heard a new McCartney song on the radio was Hope Of Deliverance - and that was early 1993. His albums still attain high chart positions, as do many boomer artists. Radio and charting is damn near irrelevant in today's music business. You can connect with your audiences much more directly through streaming, build a personal connection through social media, fan clubs, events, etc., and there are artists now selling out big arenas who you'll never hear on the radio. A musician I chatted with told me the big switch in mindset was this - you used to have to tour to try to sell an album (CD, cassette, etc.). The money was in the number of units moved and your touring supported sales. Now you want people to listen, to connect and a CD, album, etc. is sort of like a business card to sell concert tickets, as that's where the money is today. In a weird way, the Beach Boys were forerunners as they could still pack a house even when an album wasn't selling. That's more possible now for so-called heritage acts, but they were doing this well before it was even a nostalgia thing. 10.6 million monthly listens. Artists don't make much off streaming, but that's putting people in seats.
Maybe all that explains why concert tickets have gone way up in price; to the point that I just can't justify the expense anymore.
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 16, 2022 11:53:41 GMT -5
McCartney’s 1987 single “Once Upon a Long Ago” hit number 10 in the UK (but wasn’t even released in the US). Ten out of eleven McCartney studio albums of new original material released since 1985 were in the top 10 in the UK, and four of those also in the US. Two live albums since 1985 were in the top ten. Three or four singles which were collaborations with such artists as Kanye West and Rihanna went top ten, even all the way to number one in the 2010s. The last time I heard a new McCartney song on the radio was Hope Of Deliverance - and that was early 1993. His albums still attain high chart positions, as do many boomer artists. The last time I listened to a radio was around 1985.
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Post by E on Nov 16, 2022 14:25:53 GMT -5
What's a radio?
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 16, 2022 21:41:24 GMT -5
The last time I heard a new McCartney song on the radio was Hope Of Deliverance - and that was early 1993. His albums still attain high chart positions, as do many boomer artists. The last time I listened to a radio was around 1985. So how do you keep up with new music? Just surfing the internet?
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 17, 2022 11:32:24 GMT -5
The last time I listened to a radio was around 1985. So how do you keep up with new music? Just surfing the internet? I don’t keep up with new music. However, what I do hear on movie and TV soundtracks, or on late night talk shows, gives me little desire to hear anything current. On the other hand, I do like to seek out all the swing and popular music I originally missed out growing up, plus I was hanging around and jamming with a lot of musicians, and putting on shows with them.
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