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Post by sneakypete77 on May 6, 2021 4:23:16 GMT -5
he was making out with them, between the fence?
Just very loud, slobbering, enthusiastic French kissing through a chain link fence. It attracted a crowd of about two dozen by the time I decided to leave, but I'm sure he was oblivious to us all. Not a pretty sight, just sad.....very sad.
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Post by AGD on May 6, 2021 6:24:10 GMT -5
Count yourself fortunate it was only his tongue...
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Post by sneakypete77 on May 6, 2021 7:21:20 GMT -5
Couldn't see the wood for the fence Probably just as well.......
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Post by lonesurf on May 6, 2021 8:32:20 GMT -5
Here is something I may have posted a while ago, but it bears showing up again. It is a review of the Beach Boys July 18, 1981 show at the Greek Theatre in LA. You can read for yourself how Dennis and Brian acted. It was sad. Here is the punchline for me. Check out the concert review right above it. Billboard had to have done this on purpose.
Thanks for this. The juxtaposition of the two reviews is telling. (But I am pretty positive Carl didn’t pull out Surf’s Up at this gig.) The stuff about Brian’s antics remind me of seeing him at a show at the Allentown State Fair in ‘82. Very overweight & disheveled. First he wouldn’t climb the stairs to the stage .... they finally had him go up a ramp. He contributed absolutely nothing to the show, mostly just sticking his head out from the side of the stage. Yet, everyone there (me included) were just delighted to see him there. The Carl-less shows were consistently a train wreck. The reviewer commends Mike in the review. This really drives home the point that Mike has consistently tried to be a professional, through some VERY trying times. Mike simply has an old-school work ethic, and it must have horrified him to see some of the others show up in such sorry (and occasionally antagonist) states. Bottom line: Mike primarily sees himself as an MC + singer & has always tried to put on a good Beach Boys show. He wants to give the majority of the fans what they came for, not drama. And he has mostly done a great job. This is something that the anti-Mike contingent just takes for granted. Thanks again for all of these old photos and articles. Love seeing them all!
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Post by Autotune on May 6, 2021 10:37:29 GMT -5
Here is something I may have posted a while ago, but it bears showing up again. It is a review of the Beach Boys July 18, 1981 show at the Greek Theatre in LA. You can read for yourself how Dennis and Brian acted. It was sad. Here is the punchline for me. Check out the concert review right above it. Billboard had to have done this on purpose. Bottom line: Mike primarily sees himself as an MC + singer & has always tried to put on a good Beach Boys show. He wants to give the majority of the fans what they came for, not drama. And he has mostly done a great job. This is something that the anti-Mike contingent just takes for granted. Exactly. Carl left because the music wasn’t treated seriously, but the group was a nightmare back then, and performing under those conditions must have been a tortuous and painful experience for Mike, Al and Bruce day after day.
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Post by nts1drums on May 6, 2021 12:49:14 GMT -5
Dear God in the clip you can see Brian slowly emerging from the car that they were in. The dude could barely move. That was sad to watch (well that and the weird color saturation thing).
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Post by ian on May 6, 2021 15:33:10 GMT -5
You know I collected every review I could find and I shared excerpts of a lot of the dire ones in the book but I think I also shared some more positive ones. Seems like bad nights outnumber good in 1981 and 1982 but there clearly still was the occasional gig where Dennis and Brian kept it together. There’s no doubt that even if he was in bad shape-Brian’s presence at a show was a selling point at this time
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on May 6, 2021 18:06:22 GMT -5
You know I collected every review I could find and I shared excerpts of a lot of the dire ones in the book but I think I also shared some more positive ones. Seems like bad nights outnumber good in 1981 and 1982 but there clearly still was the occasional gig where Dennis and Brian kept it together. There’s no doubt that even if he was in bad shape-Brian’s presence at a show was a selling point at this time Ian, in your book you have a photo of Carl and Brian at a soundcheck in 1982. That photo is from the Astrodome show. Here is another one from the same set.
Also, I have said this elsewhere, but what does everyone think about the fact that Brian performed Don't Worry Baby during this time when he could not hit the notes. Why couldn't the others just take it out of the set list. Mike says on several recorded concerts at this time that DWB was one of his favorite tracks. Why not say to BW, please don't do this? I am sure Brian didn't add it to the setlist. Mike was the one that would set those up.
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Post by Autotune on May 6, 2021 19:20:28 GMT -5
The DWB is an enigma.
1) Mike said “he wrote it. Why wouldn’t he sing it?”
2) did this happen at Carl-less shows? Or even when Carl was around? Baby brother was very much aware (perhaps too aware) of Brian’s shortcomings as a live performer and producer right from the start of the Brian’s back charade.
3) Brian’s ear is unparalleled. He knew what his DWB sounded like. Yet, he kept going. Perhaps it’s a passive-aggressive thing related to menta illness. A way of challenging the others.
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Post by ian on May 6, 2021 19:50:28 GMT -5
Well you guys have now grown used to a Beach Boys show without any Wilsons but years ago that was considered essential-on some nights back then Brian was the only Wilson there and many fans came hoping to catch a glimpse of the elusive “genius” of the group. They wanted to hear him sing and I think the other BBs respected that and wanted to involve Brian in the show as much as possible. Let’s face it-if Brian wasn’t performing he’d sit at the piano chain smoking cigarettes and cracking his neck. Of course it’s pretty clear that sometimes Brian wanted to perform but I think it’s also clear that he was sometimes forced to appear because contractually they had to have a Wilson. On the 1978 Australian tour and 1980 European tour the BBs were even contractually obliged to have all three Wilsons. That was tough in 1980 as they’d kicked Dennis out of the group and were forced to let him back in for the tour
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Post by gerry on May 6, 2021 20:06:39 GMT -5
You know, maybe Murry was right.
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Post by Paul JB on May 6, 2021 20:52:18 GMT -5
I’ve told this story to a few of you on the board over the years but this seemed like perhaps the appropriate thread to include it here. It’s not something that gives me any pleasure to recount, but here goes. Back in late August 1983 we flew from the UK to spend a couple of weeks in New York for Julia’s birthday. While there, we came across a record store in The Village which was advertising tickets for a Beach Boys show at the Garden State Art Center in New Jersey the following week. We bought lawn seat tickets, which sounded quaint until the guy behind the counter explained that we’d be sitting on the grass on the bank leading down to the stage area, and to be sure of a decent view it would be best to get there and claim our bit of real estate as soon as we could. In fact we got there by train from Manhattan way too early and were stuck for several hours seeking shade in the 95F heat. Around 4pm there was a commotion over by the wire fence surrounding the grassed area so I ambled over to see what was going on. There were two girls, maybe late 20s/early 30s screaming and shouting, their tongues poking through the wire and being devoured by a dishevelled and completely incoherent Dennis. His pupils kept disappearing up into his eyelids and for most of the time all you could see were white eyeballs. I did consider getting a little closer if only to say ‘Hi’, but he was far too preoccupied playing tonsil billiards, and in any case by that time it felt a touch too voyeuristic just standing there watching so I began walking back. Just then Dennis disengaged himself and decided he wanted to climb the chain link fence. He made three attempts, falling on his arse each time until he just lay there laughing. By then two burly guys had walked up the bank and they scooped him up and carried him back down to the stage area. That little episode didn’t bode well for the actual concert, and predictably when their scheduled 7.30 appearance rolled around they were a no-show. An announcement was made to the effect that the band had been delayed but their arrival was imminent. The same info was given at 8pm and again at 8.30pm, by which time a fair chunk of the crowd were getting impatient and some began slow handclaps and jeering. The Boys finally shuffled on stage a little after 9.15pm, no apologies or banter (and no Dennis, obviously) then commenced at least five minutes of tuning up and farting about until launching into the most tedious and drawn-out slow-mo intro to California Girls. When the vocals did eventually appear they were abysmally ragged and flat, and they were still only halfway through the song when we checked our watches and decided we had just enough time to get a cab back to Redbank station for our 10pm Manhattan train. A few days later we dropped by the same record store and chatted to the guy there, who said he’d been told that the band had spent most of that day at their hotel having a lengthy argument about the set list and running order. Discovering later that Dennis had supposedly been in rehab in NY since late August but had clearly fallen off the wagon in spectacular fashion I couldn’t help but wonder if he’d also figured large in that day’s spat. It was only the second time I’d seen them live, but after their dazzling 1970 show in my local tiny nightclub where they were showcasing Sunflower, this was a truly dismal experience, a day to remember for just about every wrong reason going. I don’t recall that story and yes....pretty awful. I also have told a longer or shorter version of this.. ‘83 Summerfest Milwaukee. The BB’s were late and an opening act doing barbershop singing was fatiguing the crowd. I was up outside a chain link fence when the band appeared stage side. Dennis didn’t try to climb the fence but was clearly intoxicated and pushing who turned out to be his son Gage in a stroller. He was barefoot and Shawn was walking around with him and clearly pregnant. A few people called “Denny” and he started heading to the fence but then turned around. It was the first time I had been that close to any of The Beach Boys and was bitter sweet knowing Dennis was a mess. Carl appeared with a cigarette in one of the plastic holders (whatever they are called) and then Brian appeared and I was shocked that he dropped so much weight than the year before. August same year ... about six weeks later the BB’s were booked a second time in the same summer for the Wisconsin State Fair. Dennis was not there. I took pictures and one of the empty drum kit before the show started I made jokes about it being the ghost of Denny. A few months later he was dead. Back to ‘81& ‘82 ...shows were all at the Wisconsin State Fair. ‘81 it was cold and Brian and Denny were there. I don’t remember the performance being a train wreck but Carl’s absence was a huge void. ‘82 was two shows, afternoon and evening. I thought the afternoon show was a welcome surprise as they sounded better than the last few years and cranked out strings of hits without pause. Brian appeared near or starting with the encore and was wearing the same plaid shirt and his hair was awful and of course way overweight.. smoking and seemingly singing who knows what into a dead microphone. The show overall was decent and the audience was huge and liked it. The evening show was a mixed bag and Dennis and Mike were at odds... very weird and even Mike was drinking beer onstage. Mike called out to a guy trying to tell everyone to sit down in the crowd and referred to him as a fat a-hole flipped him the bird and said f you. Really awkward and uncalled for as there were a lot of kids in the crowd. I saw them annually in those days and loving them so much probably overlooked a lot of the shortcomings. One other thing is that I saw them in October of 1978 in Milwaukee and there was no Brian but Dennis was in good form and they all seemed happy. I don’t recall if that was before or after the ‘78 break up drama. Back to the main point of the OP. I think the fact that they could show up late, put on a subpar show, with Dennis too drunk to play (kowalski played his kit next to Dennis ... two kits! ) and still people sang along and they were REBOOKED about six weeks later in the same city and people packed in again.... tells you the songs they created were incredible.
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Post by Autotune on May 6, 2021 21:01:39 GMT -5
I’ve told this story to a few of you on the board over the years but this seemed like perhaps the appropriate thread to include it here. It’s not something that gives me any pleasure to recount, but here goes. Back in late August 1983 we flew from the UK to spend a couple of weeks in New York for Julia’s birthday. While there, we came across a record store in The Village which was advertising tickets for a Beach Boys show at the Garden State Art Center in New Jersey the following week. We bought lawn seat tickets, which sounded quaint until the guy behind the counter explained that we’d be sitting on the grass on the bank leading down to the stage area, and to be sure of a decent view it would be best to get there and claim our bit of real estate as soon as we could. In fact we got there by train from Manhattan way too early and were stuck for several hours seeking shade in the 95F heat. Around 4pm there was a commotion over by the wire fence surrounding the grassed area so I ambled over to see what was going on. There were two girls, maybe late 20s/early 30s screaming and shouting, their tongues poking through the wire and being devoured by a dishevelled and completely incoherent Dennis. His pupils kept disappearing up into his eyelids and for most of the time all you could see were white eyeballs. I did consider getting a little closer if only to say ‘Hi’, but he was far too preoccupied playing tonsil billiards, and in any case by that time it felt a touch too voyeuristic just standing there watching so I began walking back. Just then Dennis disengaged himself and decided he wanted to climb the chain link fence. He made three attempts, falling on his arse each time until he just lay there laughing. By then two burly guys had walked up the bank and they scooped him up and carried him back down to the stage area. That little episode didn’t bode well for the actual concert, and predictably when their scheduled 7.30 appearance rolled around they were a no-show. An announcement was made to the effect that the band had been delayed but their arrival was imminent. The same info was given at 8pm and again at 8.30pm, by which time a fair chunk of the crowd were getting impatient and some began slow handclaps and jeering. The Boys finally shuffled on stage a little after 9.15pm, no apologies or banter (and no Dennis, obviously) then commenced at least five minutes of tuning up and farting about until launching into the most tedious and drawn-out slow-mo intro to California Girls. When the vocals did eventually appear they were abysmally ragged and flat, and they were still only halfway through the song when we checked our watches and decided we had just enough time to get a cab back to Redbank station for our 10pm Manhattan train. A few days later we dropped by the same record store and chatted to the guy there, who said he’d been told that the band had spent most of that day at their hotel having a lengthy argument about the set list and running order. Discovering later that Dennis had supposedly been in rehab in NY since late August but had clearly fallen off the wagon in spectacular fashion I couldn’t help but wonder if he’d also figured large in that day’s spat. It was only the second time I’d seen them live, but after their dazzling 1970 show in my local tiny nightclub where they were showcasing Sunflower, this was a truly dismal experience, a day to remember for just about every wrong reason going. I don’t recall that story and yes....pretty awful. I also have told a longer or shorter version of this.. ‘83 Summerfest Milwaukee. The BB’s were late and an opening act doing barbershop singing was fatiguing the crowd. I was up outside a chain link fence when the band appeared stage side. Dennis didn’t try to climb the fence but was clearly intoxicated and pushing who turned out to be his son Gage in a stroller. He was barefoot and Shawn was walking around with him and clearly pregnant. A few people called “Denny” and he started heading to the fence but then turned around. It was the first time I had been that close to any of The Beach Boys and was bitter sweet knowing Dennis was a mess. Carl appeared with a cigarette in one of the plastic holders (whatever they are called) and then Brian appeared and I was shocked that he dropped so much weight than the year before. August same year ... about six weeks later the BB’s were booked a second time in the same summer for the Wisconsin State Fair. Dennis was not there. I took pictures and one of the empty drum kit before the show started I made jokes about it being the ghost of Denny. A few months later he was dead. Back to ‘81& ‘82 ...shows were all at the Wisconsin State Fair. ‘81 it was cold and Brian and Denny were there. I don’t remember the performance being a train wreck but Carl’s absence was a huge void. ‘82 was two shows, afternoon and evening. I thought the afternoon show was a welcome surprise as they sounded better than the last few years and cranked out strings of hits without pause. Brian appeared near or starting with the encore and was wearing the same plaid shirt and his hair was awful and of course way overweight.. smoking and seemingly singing who knows what into a dead microphone. The show overall was decent and the audience was huge and liked it. The evening show was a mixed bag and Dennis and Mike were at odds... very weird and even Mike was drinking beer onstage. Mike called out to a guy trying to tell everyone to sit down in the crowd and referred to him as a fat a-hole flipped him the bird and said f you. Really awkward and uncalled for as there were a lot of kids in the crowd. I saw them annually in those days and loving them so much probably overlooked a lot of the shortcomings. One other thing is that I saw them in October of 1978 in Milwaukee and there was no Brian but Dennis was in good form and they all seemed happy. I don’t recall if that was before or after the ‘78 break up drama. Back to the main point of the OP. I think the fact that they could show up late, put on a subpar show, with Dennis too drunk to play (kowalski played his kit next to Dennis ... two kits! ) and still people sang along and they were REBOOKED about six weeks later in the same city and people packed in again.... tells you the songs they created were incredible. Carl was still smoking by Summer 1983? I thought he’d quit a few years before.
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Post by Paul JB on May 6, 2021 21:09:33 GMT -5
Saw it with my own eyes, one of those things like cruella smokes in 101 Dalmations because that cartoon character is what came to my mind at the time. I thought what the hell is that. Guess it’s simply called a cigarette holder.
Just realized...2012 was 30 years after the period we are discussing and the shows were superior without Dennis or Carl... from a professional and sound quality perspective. That’s pretty crazy.
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Post by ian on May 6, 2021 21:56:19 GMT -5
With all the family stress in 1982 and 1983 it doesn’t surprise me that Carl would be smoking!!
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 6, 2021 22:05:53 GMT -5
I think he quit smoking for good in the 1985-1986 timeframe.
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Post by Emdeeh on May 6, 2021 22:14:46 GMT -5
At least by 1984.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on May 6, 2021 22:38:45 GMT -5
I tend to give these guys an eternal pass on things like this. Rock n roll is not Shakespeare or the Opera. You buy your ticket accepting a certain amount of unpredictability that goes along with the form and the types of people who tend to become rock musicians. And a part of this risk can be terrible shows. But memorable all the same, right?
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Post by lonelysummer on May 7, 2021 0:22:24 GMT -5
Reading these posts, and how the Beach Boys could still get a crowd on their feet while doing their worst ever performances is reminding me of another touring act in recent years, where the star of the show often looks like he'd rather be on Mars than on stage, sitting behind that piano, expected to sing songs about girls, cars and surfing for the gazillionth time. <author ducks to avoid being hit by flying surfboards>
I'm not a Mike or Al basher, but it does appear to me that in those days, it was all about the money for them. It just felt like no one on stage cared about the performance, just show us the money!
I'll go even farther or further back and say the beginning of the bad shows was when they brought Brian back on the road with them. You just never knew what he might do from night to night. They had a good thing going, why mess with it? "Oh, we have to. We've propped the band up for so long on the Brian is a Genius myth, so of course people want to see him."
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Post by Autotune on May 7, 2021 6:39:40 GMT -5
Reading these posts, and how the Beach Boys could still get a crowd on their feet while doing their worst ever performances is reminding me of another touring act in recent years, where the star of the show often looks like he'd rather be on Mars than on stage, sitting behind that piano, expected to sing songs about girls, cars and surfing for the gazillionth time. <author ducks to avoid being hit by flying surfboards> I'm not a Mike or Al basher, but it does appear to me that in those days, it was all about the money for them. It just felt like no one on stage cared about the performance, just show us the money! I'll go even farther or further back and say the beginning of the bad shows was when they brought Brian back on the road with them. You just never knew what he might do from night to night. They had a good thing going, why mess with it? "Oh, we have to. We've propped the band up for so long on the Brian is a Genius myth, so of course people want to see him." I don’t think Mike and Al didn’t care. I suppose that upon Carl’s leave of absence, they were left with the task to lead a touring band, keep them tight, rehearse them, hire the personnel... things they weren’t used to do, and didn’t know how to do. Carl led for 20 years; he left a void. They couldn’t rely on Brian or Dennis. If Carl had never come, they probably would have put their act together... eventually. So back to my question: did Brian sing DWB with Carl onstage during this era?
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Post by craigslowinski on May 7, 2021 7:55:09 GMT -5
Reading these posts, and how the Beach Boys could still get a crowd on their feet while doing their worst ever performances is reminding me of another touring act in recent years, where the star of the show often looks like he'd rather be on Mars than on stage, sitting behind that piano, expected to sing songs about girls, cars and surfing for the gazillionth time. <author ducks to avoid being hit by flying surfboards> I'm not a Mike or Al basher, but it does appear to me that in those days, it was all about the money for them. It just felt like no one on stage cared about the performance, just show us the money! I'll go even farther or further back and say the beginning of the bad shows was when they brought Brian back on the road with them. You just never knew what he might do from night to night. They had a good thing going, why mess with it? "Oh, we have to. We've propped the band up for so long on the Brian is a Genius myth, so of course people want to see him." I don’t think Mike and Al didn’t care. I suppose that upon Carl’s leave of absence, they were left with the task to lead a touring band, keep them tight, rehearse them, hire the personnel... things they weren’t used to do, and didn’t know how to do. Carl led for 20 years; he left a void. They couldn’t rely on Brian or Dennis. If Carl had never come, they probably would have put their act together... eventually. So back to my question: did Brian sing DWB with Carl onstage during this era? Yes, Brian sang "DWB" at the 20th Anniversary Show on December 31, 1980. Ian's book reports that his lead on this song at that show was "passable but weak". He continued performing it into February of 1981, all while Carl was still in the band. FYI, they were already performing "Surfin'" and "Long Tall Texan" at these same shows - so any thoughts that these songs were only added to replace standard Carl leads like "Darlin'" are untrue. EDIT: as a matter of fact, "Surfin' Safari", "Shut Down" and probably "409" were all added back into the setlist starting with that 20th Anniversary show. Rumor has it that each Beach Boy was allowed to choose one "new" song to add to the setlist for that show. Care to speculate which of the six BBs added which of these six songs? FURTHER EDIT: just remembered that they had already been performing "Long Tall Texan" for most of 1980, going back to March at least - and that one was definitely added at Brian's suggestion, according to both a source close to the band, and Mike himself, during the introduction to the song at a concert that year. A sixth song added at the end of the year was "Little Old Lady From Pasadena".
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Post by lonesurf on May 7, 2021 8:33:05 GMT -5
The Carl-less Beach Boys did realize that there was a problem with the live product. It was at this time that Jeffrey was brought into the band. So, that is a silver lining.
Back then, Jeff thought that there was a significant possibility that he might be let go when Carl did return. That didn’t happen and now, almost 40 years later, Jeff has become a very real part of The Beach Boys legacy.
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Post by ian on May 7, 2021 10:18:25 GMT -5
Here is one review from one night in New Mexico in early 1982 (Feb 28) when Carl was absent: "The Beach Boys took the stage with a limp version of California Girls. The band's glaring shortcomings were apparent instantly and for 90 minutes the audience was subjected to musical chaos and a cheap mockery of what the Beach Boys once were...Lead vocalist Mike Love sang with an irritating nasal croon that rivaled Donald Duck's quack. He was flat to boot. The renowned Beach Boys harmonies were shot...The only musician who played with genuine fervor was drummer Dennis Wilson, who pounded so ferociously he seemed determined to demolish the stage. Rhythm guitarist Al Jardine also performed adeptly and, despite his severely limited range, was the only vocalist to sing on key with any consistency." As for Brian "slumped before a white grand piano, he looked like Mama Cass with a beard. He appeared totally bored and pathetic, calmly smoking cigarettes and seldom bothering to contribute to to the musical effort. For the most part he frowned and muttered to himself, obviously preoccupied and unconcerned with his surroundings. At times he froze in a catatonic stupor. Not your carefree, beach-combing, surfings fun kind of guy." "The Beach Boys scurried through a broad repertoire of hits. Do It Again was ill-timed. Though Jardine's vocals were strong in a medley of Heroes and Villains and Cottonfields, the background harmonies foundered in a sour mire....Less than 30 minutes into the performance, Love, the only member who created a warm rapport with fans, announced to a stunned throng that the band would be taking a break. In an apparent attempt to compensate for mediocre music Love made numerous stabs at humor: 'We're all gonna go backstage and take our naps now.'...Keyboardist Bruce Johnston lingered to sing his composition 'I Write the songs.'...The band quickly returned but Brian remained behind as the band continued its vocal foul-ups and musical mishaps with Lady Lynda..Brian then reluctantly took the spotlight with his 1966 tune God Only Knows. His voice cracked with the opening lyrics and he threw his hands up, bumping the microphone loose. The mic quickly was repaired and Brian began again his voice creaking and cracking, never finding the proper notes. A decent guitar break in Help Me Rhonda brought a glimmer of hope to the calamity but any chance of improvement was dashed with the botched Be True To Your School. Rah-Rah Sis Boom-Blah! Brian again quavered and choked on Surfer Girl and the band lumbered through Surfin Safari, Surf City and Surfin USA. Incredibly, the crowd close to the stage remained ecstatic throughout the band'd embarrassing exercise. Elsewhere in the hall, however, applause was polite, never heartfelt. The band returned with a disastrous encore. Good Vibrations, in which Brian repeated his bungling vocals. The concert wound to a merciful close with Barbara Ann and an ironic Fun, Fun, Fun." The review concludes "In my estimation, the Beach Boys are washed up, a tragic fizzle in a fairy tale. Under the glare of Sunday's spotlights, the band suffered a slow and ugly death, like the cottontail who tarried too long." All in all sounds like she loved it huh?
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Post by craigslowinski on May 7, 2021 13:35:32 GMT -5
Wow, a woman wrote that? Yikes, she was mean!
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Post by Mikie on May 7, 2021 15:49:34 GMT -5
He quit smoking around '84, but 14 years later, even with the delayed effect of the cigs, it caught up with him anyway. Happens all the time, unfortunately.
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