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Post by Matt H on Mar 3, 2021 8:24:53 GMT -5
It pains me to do it, but I have to go with CCW and OSL.
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Post by sneakypete77 on Mar 3, 2021 9:28:06 GMT -5
Can I vote for Cool Cool Water twice?
Didn't think so, and as Our Sweet Love is untouchable in this house, I just asked the sky and it said "Forever", so at least you can't blame me for that.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Mar 3, 2021 10:19:32 GMT -5
AIWD still has a bad mix. Forever is great but a little overrated.
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Post by Mikie on Mar 3, 2021 10:34:31 GMT -5
It pains me to do it, but I have to go with CCW and OSL. Same here.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Mar 3, 2021 10:40:15 GMT -5
AIWD still has a bad mix. Forever is great but a little overrated. No it doesn’t. It is supposed to sound that way. There are a lot things going on that are blended together. The fuzziness, echo are all effects that are done intentionally. That sound is what makes it so special.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 10:56:19 GMT -5
Personally I think AIWD sounds terrific coming out of speakers, but I find the delay a little disorienting when listening to stereo mix with headphones
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Post by filledeplage on Mar 3, 2021 11:02:18 GMT -5
Composers - Brian, Carl and Al.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Mar 3, 2021 11:03:14 GMT -5
Personally I think AIWD sounds terrific coming out of speakers, but I find the delay a little disorienting when listening to stereo mix with headphones All those things were intentionally done for effect. Remixing it to sound clean would take away that trippy, dreamy feel to the song. I didn’t know about how it sounds with headphones, as I never use them.
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Post by Matt H on Mar 3, 2021 11:25:29 GMT -5
Composers - Brian, Dennis and Carl. Isn't it composed by Brian, Carl and Al?
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Post by filledeplage on Mar 3, 2021 11:27:54 GMT -5
Composers - Brian, Dennis and Al. Isn't it composed by Brian, Carl and Al? My bad! Mea Culpa and thank you! I think I was thinking of "I'll Bet He's Nice" where the three bros wrote together.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Mar 3, 2021 14:12:11 GMT -5
AIWD still has a bad mix. Forever is great but a little overrated. No it doesn’t. It is supposed to sound that way. There are a lot things going on that are blended together. The fuzziness, echo are all effects that are done intentionally. That sound is what makes it so special. I wasn’t really referring to the delay or the fuzziness, more the fact that, especially in headphones, almost everything is in the left ear. Also, there’s almost absolutely no low-end, and a lot of tape-hiss.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Mar 3, 2021 14:24:35 GMT -5
No it doesn’t. It is supposed to sound that way. There are a lot things going on that are blended together. The fuzziness, echo are all effects that are done intentionally. That sound is what makes it so special. I wasn’t really referring to the delay or the fuzziness, more the fact that, especially in headphones, almost everything is in the left ear. Also, there’s almost absolutely no low-end, and a lot of tape-hiss. Again, I don’t listen to music with headphones. It sounds terrific through speakers in my living room and my car’s Bose Sound System. According to Steve Hoffman, hearing tape-hiss is a good thing. And he’s an expert. 😉
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Mar 3, 2021 14:33:25 GMT -5
I wasn’t really referring to the delay or the fuzziness, more the fact that, especially in headphones, almost everything is in the left ear. Also, there’s almost absolutely no low-end, and a lot of tape-hiss. Again, I don’t listen to music with headphones. It sounds terrific through speakers in my living room and my car’s Bose Sound System. According to Steve Hoffman, hearing tape-hiss is a good thing. And he’s an expert. 😉 Hoffman also said this about Sunflower: “ No midrange to speak of, bass severely limited with something that sounds like a CBS Laboratories Volumax 411 on stun or something and the top was boosted at least 10 db at 12k. Probably going for a certain sound on midrangy, dull speakers of the day (or maybe it was mixed on honky horn monitors with no tweeters, dunno.) Mixed on what sounds like one of those dry early solid state soulless consoles with the "look Ma, variable EQ on every channel" deals. Remaster this baby: Find some midband, kill some top, save the planet, keep insects alive!” now I have no idea what half of that stuff even means, but it sounds pretty harsh. Being honest I don’t really have that many problems with the current 2009 re-master other than the problems i said with AIWD, and the fact that Bruce’s vocal on his two tracks is not centered. But a remix of AIWD, with the vocals centered and some more low end would literally make my year
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Mar 3, 2021 14:42:53 GMT -5
Again, I don’t listen to music with headphones. It sounds terrific through speakers in my living room and my car’s Bose Sound System. According to Steve Hoffman, hearing tape-hiss is a good thing. And he’s an expert. 😉 Hoffman also said this about Sunflower: “ No midrange to speak of, bass severely limited with something that sounds like a CBS Laboratories Volumax 411 on stun or something and the top was boosted at least 10 db at 12k. Probably going for a certain sound on midrangy, dull speakers of the day (or maybe it was mixed on honky horn monitors with no tweeters, dunno.) Mixed on what sounds like one of those dry early solid state soulless consoles with the "look Ma, variable EQ on every channel" deals. Remaster this baby: Find some midband, kill some top, save the planet, keep insects alive!” now I have no idea what half of that stuff even means, but it sounds pretty harsh. Being honest I don’t really have that many problems with the current 2009 re-master other than the problems i said with AIWD, and the fact that Bruce’s vocal on his two tracks is not centered. But a remix of AIWD, with the vocals centered and some more low end would literally make my year Maybe Stephen Desper will address the engineering and mixing of the album. Sure glad that I don’t have your’s or Hoffman’s ears. I guess mine fall somewhere between golden and tin. 😉
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Mar 3, 2021 14:48:27 GMT -5
Hoffman also said this about Sunflower: “ No midrange to speak of, bass severely limited with something that sounds like a CBS Laboratories Volumax 411 on stun or something and the top was boosted at least 10 db at 12k. Probably going for a certain sound on midrangy, dull speakers of the day (or maybe it was mixed on honky horn monitors with no tweeters, dunno.) Mixed on what sounds like one of those dry early solid state soulless consoles with the "look Ma, variable EQ on every channel" deals. Remaster this baby: Find some midband, kill some top, save the planet, keep insects alive!” now I have no idea what half of that stuff even means, but it sounds pretty harsh. Being honest I don’t really have that many problems with the current 2009 re-master other than the problems i said with AIWD, and the fact that Bruce’s vocal on his two tracks is not centered. But a remix of AIWD, with the vocals centered and some more low end would literally make my year Maybe Stephen Desper will address the engineering and mixing of the album. Sure glad that I don’t have your’s or Hoffman’s ears. I guess mine fall somewhere between golden and tin. 😉 Oh he has. He said to listen to the original 1970 US pressing, which admittedly does sound a lot better than any of the remasters, but still doesn’t make too big a difference for headphone users
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Post by Mikie on Mar 3, 2021 14:55:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 16:25:40 GMT -5
Wow, that's some story there, @barto . That must be the Fitzroy of the "little band scene", right? I bumped into some great stuff by Use No Hooks not so long ago... Pretty cool area for musos although a little under threat due to new development trashing old venues and the lockdown impacts. Bummer. Even 10 years ago i recall the intimidating presence of industrial cranes in nearby neighborhoods....like vultures waiting for their moment to rush in. I have fond memories of that part of town nonetheless
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Post by AGD on Mar 3, 2021 16:27:12 GMT -5
Personally I think AIWD sounds terrific coming out of speakers, but I find the delay a little disorienting when listening to stereo mix with headphones All those things were intentionally done for effect. Remixing it to sound clean would take away that trippy, dreamy feel to the song. I didn’t know about how it sounds with headphones, as I never use them. You should hear it over four speakers. Whoa ! And yeah: it sounds like that because it was concieved, recorded and mixed like that. That's the way the band wanted it to sound. Remixing it would be like colourising Citizen Kane: an act of artistic vandalism. Centering all the vocals ? Seriously ? Only a complete moron would think that could in any way improve such a sublime sonic experience.
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Post by Al S on Mar 3, 2021 16:31:57 GMT -5
Again, I don’t listen to music with headphones. It sounds terrific through speakers in my living room and my car’s Bose Sound System. According to Steve Hoffman, hearing tape-hiss is a good thing. And he’s an expert. 😉 Hoffman also said this about Sunflower: “ No midrange to speak of, bass severely limited with something that sounds like a CBS Laboratories Volumax 411 on stun or something and the top was boosted at least 10 db at 12k. Probably going for a certain sound on midrangy, dull speakers of the day (or maybe it was mixed on honky horn monitors with no tweeters, dunno.) Mixed on what sounds like one of those dry early solid state soulless consoles with the "look Ma, variable EQ on every channel" deals. Remaster this baby: Find some midband, kill some top, save the planet, keep insects alive!” now I have no idea what half of that stuff even means, but it sounds pretty harsh. Being honest I don’t really have that many problems with the current 2009 re-master other than the problems i said with AIWD, and the fact that Bruce’s vocal on his two tracks is not centered. But a remix of AIWD, with the vocals centered and some more low end would literally make my year The 2009 reissue of Sunflower presents a flat master that Alan Boyd and Mark Linnet found in the archives, hence some of the EQ differences.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Mar 3, 2021 16:35:01 GMT -5
All those things were intentionally done for effect. Remixing it to sound clean would take away that trippy, dreamy feel to the song. I didn’t know about how it sounds with headphones, as I never use them. You should hear it over four speakers. Whoa ! I wanna hear it in 5.1, even better.
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Post by AGD on Mar 3, 2021 16:40:22 GMT -5
"Hoffman also said this about Sunflower: “ No midrange to speak of, bass severely limited with something that sounds like a CBS Laboratories Volumax 411 on stun or something and the top was boosted at least 10 db at 12k. Probably going for a certain sound on midrangy, dull speakers of the day (or maybe it was mixed on honky horn monitors with no tweeters, dunno.) Mixed on what sounds like one of those dry early solid state soulless consoles with the "look Ma, variable EQ on every channel" deals."
A textbook example of someone who listens to the equipment and the signal path, not the music.
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Post by AGD on Mar 3, 2021 16:44:19 GMT -5
The 2009 reissue of Sunflower presents a flat master that Alan Boyd and Mark Linnet found in the archives, hence some of the EQ differences. I just A/B'd the original with the 2009 remaster. Can't say I'm a fan of the latter.
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Post by Al S on Mar 3, 2021 18:51:14 GMT -5
The 2009 reissue of Sunflower presents a flat master that Alan Boyd and Mark Linnet found in the archives, hence some of the EQ differences. I just A/B'd the original with the 2009 remaster. Can't say I'm a fan of the latter. Yeah, the 2009 is a pretty hissy and hazy affair. I haven't run it through an actual graphic equaliser in order to customise it to my specific likings - who knows, that could improve it. While a good idea to get a "new" version out there, the '09 is not the most successful archival release. The Analogue Productions SACD is pretty good, despite the hoo-haa re the quad decoding.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Mar 3, 2021 19:01:10 GMT -5
I’m happy with Sandoval’s 2000 remaster. On CD, I have them all and it is the one that I always return to.
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Post by Al S on Mar 4, 2021 4:54:04 GMT -5
Since this is Survivor, does anyone want to join my alliance to save Slip On Through? Slip on through has a special place in my heart....i was living in Melbourne when I first got into this album and slip on through just seemed to match the energy of the city and where I was at mentally/spiritually at the time. In particular I remember a day I was given a sugar cube at a bar near the uni by a fellow from footscray, which led to an odyssey of a day which included Bach-fest (ft. some beautiful choir and orchestra performances under the towering figure of a massive classical organ whose pipes seemed to be breathing in and out in harmony with the music), a bit of emphatic tree hugging, and a meandering and error-ridden journey to fitzroy (slip on through as the backing track of navigating rainy trolley and subway transfers) to finally arrive at the warm apartment of a passionate italian woman who made me one of the best pastas ive had in my life....over champagne she professed some deep feelings that I did not reciprocate but sometimes I wonder what kind of path that would have led me on.....she admitted she did not handle jealousy well and i could imagine an alternative universe of ambrosial gnocchi and treatment of paring knife wounds after looking the wrong way at the girl from the grocery....needless to say i was 'taken for a ride' that day and nearly slipped on through to the other side Whoa! As someone who wants to live until I’m at least 103 (min), I get the survival instinct - but I could think of worse ways to go!
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