|
Post by pendlewitch on Feb 5, 2021 8:25:01 GMT -5
An unfortunate consequence of the Survivor format is that it is required to view songs in the negative. Maybe we should first 'Vote for the Best' and then work down, but that takes away some of the tension. So, with that in mind, I'm very happy that my throwaway remark about The Shift has caused lots of commenters to rally around a song that is about..... a dress. Perhaps this brings to mind the obvious tensions between music and lyrics, in a sort of modified Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. The doubts about the music are approximately inversely equal to the doubts about the lyrics, in that one cannot have perfect knowledge about both music and lyrics within the same song at the same time. Which is exactly what it doesn't say here, but it's about music so I thought you might like it: newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/uncertainty.html
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 5, 2021 8:31:08 GMT -5
I’m going with Surfin’. After hearing the song at the correct speed, it is hard to listen to this sped up one. So, it’s outta here!
|
|
|
Post by iancockburn on Feb 5, 2021 9:42:35 GMT -5
I like most of this album but am viscerally repelled by "Little Girl".
|
|
|
Post by jk on Feb 5, 2021 16:21:48 GMT -5
I'll go Summertime Blues here since it's a very weak version of the song. Interestingly, this version was the first to follow Cochran's original and unlike Eddie's the lead vocal was sung by Carl and Dave (?) in harmony, Everly Brothers style. (I had a feeling the Everlys had recorded it, but not so, it seems.) Could it have been the Boys' version that inspired The Who? Just a jk thought...
|
|
|
Post by jk on Feb 5, 2021 17:10:02 GMT -5
An unfortunate consequence of the Survivor format is that it is required to view songs in the negative. Maybe we should first 'Vote for the Best' and then work down, but that takes away some of the tension. So, with that in mind, I'm very happy that my throwaway remark about The Shift has caused lots of commenters to rally around a song that is about..... a dress. Perhaps this brings to mind the obvious tensions between music and lyrics, in a sort of modified Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. The doubts about the music are approximately inversely equal to the doubts about the lyrics, in that one cannot have perfect knowledge about both music and lyrics within the same song at the same time. Which is exactly what it doesn't say here, but it's about music so I thought you might like it: newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/uncertainty.htmlMy brain hurts, pw. Perhaps three glasses of white wine and Heisenberg don't mix. Thanks anyway! I do agree with your opening remark. I'm throwing all my principles overboard by joining in this time but Alan's a nice chap and there's a lot of knowledgeable and insightful commentary along the way. As for "The Shift", I stick with my previous argument. The shift of the title is a tonal shift more than anything else. I see that shift as upward but Philip Lambert takes the opposite view in his book Inside the Music of Brian Wilson (on p. 46, my emphasis): "Overall the song is in the key of A major, but when the A section begins we hear two bars of G chords. After that there are two bars of A chords, and then the song continues as a blues progression in A through the end of the section. In other words, Brian plays on the song's title by 'shifting' the first two bars of a blues progression down a whole step from A to G. This is all anticipated in the introduction, where a C chord similarly shifts up to a D chord. In fact, at the beginning of the song, when we hear the intro C and D chords and then the vocals enter above G and A chords, it's hard to tell exactly what key the song is in; the key only becomes clear when blues progression eventually asserts itself. This is Brian in experimental mode, placing his personal stamp on a time-worn convention."
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 5, 2021 19:55:47 GMT -5
Good discussion about the negative/positive aspects of Survivor type polls.
I think there’s the opportunity for things to get negative in such polls if one lets them - but here at EH, we’re all pretty positive and reasonable folk, not to mention sooooo good looking and way cool!
Survivor polls also allow some great perspectives to come to the fore, and I think it’s healthy for peeps to challenge and be challenged in a civil manner - gentle teasing also has rewards.
When I buy a bag of mixed sweets, I will line them up in a row of preference working towards the choosen morsel I want to savour last, knowing the journey to the bag’s final offering will be a fine adventure - which is my approach here.
Anyway, I’m on low-carb at the moment, so no more about confectionary.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 5, 2021 19:58:57 GMT -5
I'll go Summertime Blues here since it's a very weak version of the song. Interestingly, this version was the first to follow Cochran's original and unlike Eddie's the lead vocal was sung by Carl and Dave (?) in harmony, Everly Brothers style. (I had a feeling the Everlys had recorded it, but not so, it seems.) Could it have been the Boys' version that inspired The Who?Just a jk thought... Hmmm, interesting - we know Keith was a big fan; and I read somewhere that John Entwhistle wanted The Who to harmonise “like” The Beach Boys.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 5, 2021 20:05:11 GMT -5
I’m going with Surfin’. After hearing the song at the correct speed, it is hard to listen to this sped up one. So, it’s outta here! Speakin’ of speed-ups or sped-ups, anyone know the goss re Heads I Win - sounds like it’s been sped up a tad to me.
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 5, 2021 20:34:10 GMT -5
This is gonna get difficult any minute now. I don't see why you guys don't like Summertime Blues. I think it's a very good cover to a great song. David plays the Toes On The Nose rhythm guitar along with Carl's lead. First Carl Wilson lead vocal (along with David). Fun to listen to the instrumental track by itself on SOT Vol. 1. Nope! Not gonna do it!
Unfortunately, Moon Dawg has to go. Nick Venet produced the Gamblers version earlier and more than likely produced this one too.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 5, 2021 21:04:52 GMT -5
This is gonna get difficult any minute now. I don't see why you guys don't like Summertime Blues. I think it's a very good cover to a great song. David plays the Toes On The Nose rhythm guitar along with Carl's lead. First Carl Wilson lead vocal (along with David). Fun to listen to the instrumental track by itself on SOT Vol. 1. Nope! Not gonna do it! Unfortunately, Moon Dawg has to go. Nick Venet produced the Gamblers version earlier and more than likely produced this one too. I love it when the bass tone doubling drops in at bar 5! PHAT!
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 5, 2021 21:42:29 GMT -5
Yeah, that's really boss! Treble up!
|
|
|
Post by jk on Feb 6, 2021 4:38:07 GMT -5
This is gonna get difficult any minute now. I don't see why you guys don't like Summertime Blues. I think it's a very good cover to a great song. David plays the Toes On The Nose rhythm guitar along with Carl's lead. First Carl Wilson lead vocal (along with David). Fun to listen to the instrumental track by itself on SOT Vol. 1. Nope! Not gonna do it! Unfortunately, Moon Dawg has to go. Nick Venet produced the Gamblers version earlier and more than likely produced this one too. This is precisely what I have against Survivor topics. Fact is, I don't not like "Summertime Blues"! But I've chosen to play this game, which obviously means abiding by the rules and having to eliminate stuff. Not easy at all. If it's going to get difficult any minute now, M, wait until we get to Today! or Pet Sounds! Just imagine having to drop "Don't Talk" or "Please Let Me Wonder"... As for "Moon Dawg", I recall reading that Carl didn't play lead on this (the name of the guitarist in question escapes me right now)... Edit 1: I see now in my notes that according to AGD (thank you, that man), who asked someone who was there, Carl drummed on "Moon Dawg". Edit 2: That's the name I was trying to think of -- Derry Weaver! Edit 3: "Sometime during 1962, Nick Venet hired Derry to work with him at Capitol Records; Nick was A&R man and Derry assisted him for about four years, working with The Beach Boys, Glen Campbell, Lou Rawls... Once again, he has never confirmed that he played on some of the early Beach Boys tracks which would appear on the 'Surfin' Safari' LP." [ Source]
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 6, 2021 11:32:07 GMT -5
This is gonna get difficult any minute now. I don't see why you guys don't like Summertime Blues. I think it's a very good cover to a great song. David plays the Toes On The Nose rhythm guitar along with Carl's lead. First Carl Wilson lead vocal (along with David). Fun to listen to the instrumental track by itself on SOT Vol. 1. Nope! Not gonna do it! Unfortunately, Moon Dawg has to go. Nick Venet produced the Gamblers version earlier and more than likely produced this one too. This is precisely what I have against Survivor topics. Fact is, I don't not like "Summertime Blues"! But I've chosen to play this game, which obviously means abiding by the rules and having to eliminate stuff. Not easy at all. Completely agree with this and the reason why I've never 'played' this Survivor game before. You get varying opinions, sometimes the polar opposite of yours, and that's totally expected. But I feel like I should have to explain myself to justify my stance! And I will! It's part of the game and if I don't end up pissing off my friends here, then it's OK I guess. Just joining in to support Aussie Alan when I can and I hope others will join in too!
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 6, 2021 11:50:04 GMT -5
As for "Moon Dawg", I recall reading that Carl didn't play lead on this (the name of the guitarist in question escapes me right now)... Edit 1: I see now in my notes that according to AGD (thank you, that man), who asked someone who was there, Carl drummed on "Moon Dawg". Edit 2: That's the name I was trying to think of -- Derry Weaver! Edit 3: "Sometime during 1962, Nick Venet hired Derry to work with him at Capitol Records; Nick was A&R man and Derry assisted him for about four years, working with The Beach Boys, Glen Campbell, Lou Rawls... Once again, he has never confirmed that he played on some of the early Beach Boys tracks which would appear on the 'Surfin' Safari' LP." [ Source] I remember this discussion about Derry Weaver way back when. Weaver wrote the song. Bruce Johnston was a member of the Gamblers and played piano on it by the way. Venet's credited with 'directing and arranging' the original song, and I'm sure it was his idea to record the Beach Boys version. Didn't know Carl played drums on it! Wiki thinks so too.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Feb 6, 2021 12:14:33 GMT -5
I recall reading that Weaver he ever played on any BB records.
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 6, 2021 12:19:13 GMT -5
So who played lead guitar on the Beach Boys version if Carl played drums? Did they overdub on the Surfin' Safari record at Capitol in '62 or was it live? I'm too lazy to look.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Feb 6, 2021 13:18:31 GMT -5
I'm guessing David.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 7, 2021 1:02:34 GMT -5
According to Jon Stebbins, in his legendary tome The Beach Boys FAQ, Carl did indeed play drums, and Derry Weaver "also probably features...in a modest supporting role". Which suggests NOT the lead or perhaps even guitar at all.
Sounds like Carl to me, assuming the band were able to do overdubs. But if a live-in-the-studio take, as per AGD, likely Dave.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 7, 2021 1:08:54 GMT -5
Summertime Blues is gonna have a vacation - bon voyage! It called to complain his Congressman, and he said - quote: "I'd like to help you, song, but you're too young to vote".
Okay, Sunday night or morning special, vote off your 2 least favourite sweets songs. The two songs with the most votes this round will be eliminated.
The Shift and Heads for me!
|
|
|
Post by jk on Feb 7, 2021 8:29:30 GMT -5
"Surfin'" is significant in terms of the Boys' progress but less so musically.
"Heads/Tails" also gets the chop from me this time round.
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 7, 2021 13:33:49 GMT -5
According to Jon Stebbins, in his legendary tome The Beach Boys FAQ, Carl did indeed play drums, and Derry Weaver "also probably features...in a modest supporting role". Which suggests NOT the lead. Sounds like Carl to me, assuming the band were able to do overdubs. But if a live-in-the-studio take, as per AGD, likely Dave. Well, Dave was usually playing rhythm on those early records, and he can't play leads at the same time! If they were over-dubbing it would make sense, otherwise......probably Carl.
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 7, 2021 13:38:46 GMT -5
OK, so this is when it gets difficult (and not much fun) for me. What to drop, what to drop. Lesseee........nah, not the gamblin' song.
Maybe.......Little Girl (You're My Miss America).
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Feb 7, 2021 14:24:15 GMT -5
OK, so this is when it gets difficult (and not much fun) for me. What to drop, what to drop. Lesseee........nah, not the gamblin' song. Maybe.......Little Girl (You're My Miss America). What’s your other choice - vote 2
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Feb 7, 2021 14:27:55 GMT -5
Moon Dawg.
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2021 15:18:04 GMT -5
Late to the party but always up for a swing around the discography. I usually come away with multiple insights and renewed appreciation for tracks
|
|