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Post by filledeplage on Jan 4, 2019 17:16:31 GMT -5
Let's discuss SU's cover. I'll begin - it's bad, ugly, it seems not many colors been used to paint this true abomination. Such minimalism in colors, especially when it's dark hues of colors, isn't to my taste. Besides, the subject matter depicted in the cover isn't even of fleeting interest to me. It is based on a sculpture by James Earl Fraser called "The End of the Trail." His works appear on US coins, such as the Indian Head nickel and sculpture in many iconic locations in Washington DC including the Supreme Court. He studied at the École de Beaux Arts in Paris. I think it is a magnificent cover. Art is personal and chacun à son goût.
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Post by Mikie on Jan 4, 2019 18:56:54 GMT -5
FWIW, not only do I love the cover, I also love the dried up river bed photo on the inner sleeve. The whole package completely ties in with the track line up. Same here, Bill. The 'End Of The Trail' cover, the "landlocked" inner sleeve artwork, the whole thing. Even Steve Desper's description of the recording equipment (U-boat microphone) etc.
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 4:47:10 GMT -5
Let's discuss SU's cover. I'll begin - it's bad, ugly, it seems not many colors been used to paint this true abomination. Such minimalism in colors, especially when it's dark hues of colors, isn't to my taste. Besides, the subject matter depicted in the cover isn't even of fleeting interest to me. It is based on a sculpture by James Earl Fraser called "The End of the Trail." His works appear on US coins, such as the Indian Head nickel and sculpture in many iconic locations in Washington DC including the Supreme Court. He studied at the École de Beaux Arts in Paris. I think it is a magnificent cover. Art is personal and chacun à son goût. And he's also the sculptor responsible for Appeal to the Great Spirit - the Brother logo...
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Post by AGD on Jan 5, 2019 5:36:33 GMT -5
It is based on a sculpture by James Earl Fraser called "The End of the Trail." His works appear on US coins, such as the Indian Head nickel and sculpture in many iconic locations in Washington DC including the Supreme Court. He studied at the École de Beaux Arts in Paris. I think it is a magnificent cover. Art is personal and chacun à son goût. And he's also the sculptor responsible for Appeal to the Great Spirit - the Brother logo... Nope. That's Cyrus Dallin.
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 9:56:50 GMT -5
Ooops!
And I've seen the bloody thing too!
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Surf's Up
Jan 5, 2019 10:00:34 GMT -5
E likes this
Post by filledeplage on Jan 5, 2019 10:00:34 GMT -5
And he's also the sculptor responsible for Appeal to the Great Spirit - the Brother logo... Nope. That's Cyrus Dallin. Yes.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Jan 5, 2019 10:07:01 GMT -5
Speaking of Brother logo - quoting fun song by Rosemary Clooney (hers is the best version imo), "It don't mean a thing" to me. It's just the guy sitting in the horse stretching hands, with his head turned back. Reading its background doesn't help either.
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 10:12:36 GMT -5
Thanks for your input. Pithy, witty, to the point and indubitably correct...
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 10:27:46 GMT -5
You think I'm being sarcastic, but no: it helps me to see where you're coming from when trying to understand your manner over the years. I figure you don't mean to be rude, it's just you like to get straight to your point and you have little time for people who don't see things your way. There's room for that too.
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Surf's Up
Jan 5, 2019 10:34:49 GMT -5
E likes this
Post by filledeplage on Jan 5, 2019 10:34:49 GMT -5
Ooops! And I've seen the bloody thing too! And - mighty impressive! There are several.
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Post by Vale on Jan 5, 2019 10:38:02 GMT -5
I think the Brother logo is great. I like it very much. As for the symbol itself, I think it's a great message of freedom. Here is the story about the Appeal to The Great Spirit statue located in Boston. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_Great_Spirit
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 10:43:56 GMT -5
The one I saw was outside the Boston Museum of Fine Arts.* I'm sure there was a plan for a large version of one of his 'Indian' works to be sited in NY harbour to allow visitors to be greeted by a native American. Not sure it was this one, though.
*Now I think of it, I've seen a version of his Massasoit in Plymouth
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Jan 5, 2019 10:45:41 GMT -5
Should add that sculptures, whatever they symbolize - freedom etc. - don't interest me at all.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 5, 2019 10:57:02 GMT -5
Should add that sculptures, whatever they symbolize - freedom etc. - don't interest me at all. Here's what I find interesting about all of this. They chose this powerful symbol - almost mythical, during a time when their new company Brother, was struggling, as Smiley did. I used to walk by this statue nearly every day in college. It is the kind of art that makes you feel like the proverbial "cork in the ocean, rock in a landslide or leaf on a windy day" - that some human life force is bigger than you. Maybe it is that creative force of music or art - that can transcend and transport you to another place, like a great book. I sensed that on some level to have chosen such strong art as a logo would have been some inspiration to aspire to seek excellence in their work.
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Post by E on Jan 5, 2019 11:04:15 GMT -5
Okay, just did a quick Google and it seems to have been a statue on Staten Island in 1913 and Dallin was interested in the commission, but the whole thing never got off the ground and the initial proposal (not Dallin's) isn't a mounted figure after all. In fact, in this imagining, it looks like he's giving the finger to immigrants and visitors alike:
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 12:30:18 GMT -5
My two sense worth regarding the cover, I don't think it's terrible--I've seen much worse in the Beach Boys universe--but I admit it is quite perplexing on close examination. The first thing I notice is the use of color. I always like blues; blue is my favorite color. The almost-silhouette effect of the horse and rider are quite effective, as is the gold title banner. The gold makes it stand out a bit, but why didn't they make it bigger? Afterall, when it was first released and displayed in stores, wouldn't they have wanted to make it clear that this was a Beach Boys album?
The other perplexing thing is the irony (intended or not) of the title Surf's UP (my emphasis), while the cover image is very DOWN. I realize that most of the songs on Surfs Up deal with some pretty serious issues, but you've got to wonder how many folks passed on this album when it first came out based on that cover.
So to sum up: Is it a "good" cover? I think so. Appropriate for this album or for the Beach Boys? Probably not.
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 13:56:18 GMT -5
5
Im sorry but I just don't like this one. I've tried--I wanted to love it--but I just can't get into it.
I get that at the time, finally getting to hear the title track must have been a big deal...but now that we have SMiLE...that positive is rendered irrelevant. To me personally, SU always feels out of place on this album. Maybe it's just because Im such a massive SMiLE fan, but I see it as the perfect summation of *that* album's themes and ideas. So, hearing it ripped out of its original context, bumping elbows with tracks it was never meant to, it just feels wrong.
But it goes beyond that. The Carl tracks just do nothing for me. Again, I honestly wanted to love them as I'd heard so many great things. But they leave no impression whatsoever and I often forget what they sound like soon after giving the album another try.
Student Demonstration time is annoying and (as I understand it) its message is to not get involved. I dont agree with that and I think it's a terrible message to send to young people. Maybe if the Boomers had gotten involved on behalf of important issues like Climate Change when we first learned about them in the 70s, we wouldn't be facing a calamity within the next 10-20 years now. I dont mean to start generational warfare, but the point is getting involved is important.
Feet is an embarassment. It's just as cringe inducing and "WTF were they thinking??" as the worst moments on SIP as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand the "cool" hype surrounding this release with tracks like that on it. If you told me it was a joke song, like Disco Duck or something in that vein, I'd believe it.
Disney girls is alright but not something I go out of my way to listen to.
Day in the Life of a Tree is interesting but in my opinion not particularly melodic or something I go out of my way to listen to either.
'Til I Die is the high point. I don't listen to it as often as I do Love You, Busy Doin' Nothing or even Mt Vernon. But it's a great Brian track and worthy of praise.
IF I left anything out it's because, again, it left so little impression on me.
The cult of personality around this one release has always baffled me. I get that at the time it was considered cool and all, but as a Gen Y fan, I personally don't believe it holds up very well. And I get it--some things you just had to be there for. For me as a 90s kid I love certain things that older and younger generations wouldn't be able to understand because they weren't there. But what bothers me is the way criticism of this one particular album is taken so personally. Without getting into the Pet Sounds Forum, just in this ongoing thread you can see it. I don't think it's fair to single out a good poster and (from what I've seen) a nice person like "Beach Boys Fan" just because they don't like the cover. It's possible to not like this one album without the intent of doing so for "effect."
Anyway, that's just my two cents.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 5, 2019 15:18:55 GMT -5
5 Im sorry but I just don't like this one. I've tried--I wanted to love it--but I just can't get into it. I get that at the time, finally getting to hear the title track must have been a big deal...but now that we have SMiLE...that positive is rendered irrelevant. To me personally, SU always feels out of place on this album. Maybe it's just because Im such a massive SMiLE fan, but I see it as the perfect summation of *that* album's themes and ideas. So, hearing it ripped out of its original context, bumping elbows with tracks it was never meant to, it just feels wrong. But it goes beyond that. The Carl tracks just do nothing for me. Again, I honestly wanted to love them as I'd heard so many great things. But they leave no impression whatsoever and I often forget what they sound like soon after giving the album another try. Student Demonstration time is annoying and (as I understand it) its message is to not get involved. I dont agree with that and I think it's a terrible message to send to young people. Maybe if the Boomers had gotten involved on behalf of important issues like Climate Change when we first learned about them in the 70s, we wouldn't be facing a calamity within the next 10-20 years now. I dont mean to start generational warfare, but the point is getting involved is important. Feet is an embarassment. It's just as cringe inducing and "WTF were they thinking??" as the worst moments on SIP as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand the "cool" hype surrounding this release with tracks like that on it. If you told me it was a joke song, like Disco Duck or something in that vein, I'd believe it. Disney girls is alright but not something I go out of my way to listen to. Day in the Life of a Tree is interesting but in my opinion not particularly melodic or something I go out of my way to listen to either. 'Til I Die is the high point. I don't listen to it as often as I do Love You, Busy Doin' Nothing or even Mt Vernon. But it's a great Brian track and worthy of praise. IF I left anything out it's because, again, it left so little impression on me. The cult of personality around this one release has always baffled me. I get that at the time it was considered cool and all, but as a Gen Y fan, I personally don't believe it holds up very well. And I get it--some things you just had to be there for. For me as a 90s kid I love certain things that older and younger generations wouldn't be able to understand because they weren't there. But what bothers me is the way criticism of this one particular album is taken so personally. Without getting into the Pet Sounds Forum, just in this ongoing thread you can see it. I don't think it's fair to single out a good poster and (from what I've seen) a nice person like "Beach Boys Fan" just because they don't like the cover. It's possible to not like this one album without the intent of doing so for "effect." Anyway, that's just my two cents. Some might find a "5" cruel but it is personal taste and judgment. It is fine. In real time Surf's Up (the track) was not just a big deal - it was a huge deal. A giant like Leonard Bernstein only comes once a century - if you're lucky and he helped flesh out (on Inside Pop) what rock music was about and Brian Wilson was among the stars he featured. Brian did Surf's Up - filmed IIRC in late 1966 and appeared in April of 1967. It's hard to imagine that Carl's vocal work does not stir you - and that is fine and your personal taste. In real time SDT - mattered in student communities - maybe not as much as Four Dead in Ohio, with CSNY but it gave the Boys a voice in the protest movements of the 70's. Generally they were unfairly stereotyped as irrelevant (passé, even) but they were listening, and were active in 18 year old voter drive campaigns. You may think this is funny but I sang sections of "Feet" to my kids in the bathtub and they'll sing it to their kids. "Wrinkled like a raisin if you stay too long." Al Jardine has a great kid's book out on "Sloop" - maybe he should write one about "Take a Load off your Feet." Al's a folkie and a storyteller. I found it a cute song then as I do now. Is there room for something sort of whimsical and/or light on an intensely intellectual LP? Why not? I can't imagine singing stuff to a kid from Smile - except one of mine used to sing "Barnyard" and thought it was hilarious on the way to school when Brian's live version came out in 2004. Maybe each record has or needs some comic relief. Brian has a sense of humor. Pet Sounds has barking dogs. Surf's Up was a big deal in real-time and with real live activist context. When someone does not like a cover that is generally and it is almost universally revered - it is no surprise when people wonder why - and I don't think it is to be offensive, but to understand - how the symbolism could be lost in a few decades. Or, maybe there is a cultural disconnect. Everyone is not from the US and does not have that context but music is universal if some symbolism needs translating. So, we ask "why?" But, I'm not sure anyone is being deliberately mean, and BBF is a nice person, as is generally the case, with the posters, on this forum.
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dumbchops
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 83
Likes: 73
Favorite Album: Sail On Sailor
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Post by dumbchops on Jan 5, 2019 19:46:14 GMT -5
"Don't Go Near The Water" is a bit limp to me. Not a very strong start. The instrumental mix on MIC is totally unnecessary. There are other songs on here worthy of that kind of treatment. But, it's not too terrible and the ending is a nice haunting surprise.
"Long Promised Road" is a masterpiece. Carl had so much potential as a songwriter during this era. What happened?
"Take A Load Off Your Feet" is okay by me. It's as psychedelic as it is childish.
"Disney Girls" is not my favorite song by Bruce but it is still an emotional one. I love the instrumentation on this one.
"Student Demonstration Time" is a rip off of an oldie but I respect the lyrics. If there is a riot going on, I'm hiding behind my sofa.
"Feel Flows" is my favorite song written by Carl and Jack. Does it have to really mean anything?
"Lookin' At Tomorrow" is another damn song with the apostrophe in place of an ending consonant. Despite my hatred for the lazy title, it's an ok song that just goes by.
"A Day In The Life Of A Tree" is pure genius. The vocals are ok with me and I find it's a way better composition than "Don't Go Near The Water".
"Til I Die" I first heard on a bootleg that lasted almost 8 minutes long due to looping an early mix with the Desper mix found on Endless Harmony. I used to listen to that mix before I would drift off to sleep. The Surf's Up version seems so short to me now.
"Surf's Up" is the version I'm used to with Carl's vocals. For a great alternative version, listen to the stereo mix found on the SMiLE Sessions box set vinyl side 4. One of the best Beach Boys songs ever, at least in the top 3.
I gave this album a 9 out of 10 because it really is quite listenable and has some masterpieces on there. I kind of group Sunflower, Surf's Up, So Tough and Holland as a set of early 70's albums. This one is not my favorite of the bunch but also not my least favorite.
I love the cover. I wish I owned the vinyl but all I have is the 2000 2-fer cd that I never skip a track. With at least a couple of the later 2-fers, I feel inclined to skip an entire album. That applies to 15 Big Ones, MIU and possibly the entire Keepin' The Summer Alive / BB85 cd. I'm afraid not even AGD's liner notes can save that last one for me.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jan 5, 2019 19:48:48 GMT -5
You know, if folks are going to post their opinions on a forum, and those opinions go against the tide, then be ready for some blow back. Now, I am from an older generation, and I see nothing said so far to get anybody upset. If the ego is that fragile, maybe don’t post in opinion threads? Thank you and carry on.
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dumbchops
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 83
Likes: 73
Favorite Album: Sail On Sailor
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Post by dumbchops on Jan 5, 2019 20:19:23 GMT -5
You know, if folks are going to post their opinions on a forum, and those opinions go against the tide, then be ready for some blow back. Now, I am from an older generation, and I see nothing said so far to get anybody upset. If the ego is that fragil, maybe don’t post in opinion threads? Thank you and carry on. The Beach Boys are a very polarizing group. I have no problem discussing them with people who have different likes and dislikes. I do have a problem discussing politics or religion so I will stay far away from those topics.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jan 5, 2019 21:02:16 GMT -5
You know, if folks are going to post their opinions on a forum, and those opinions go against the tide, then be ready for some blow back. Now, I am from an older generation, and I see nothing said so far to get anybody upset. If the ego is that fragil, maybe don’t post in opinion threads? Thank you and carry on. The Beach Boys are a very polarizing group. I have no problem discussing them with people who have different likes and dislikes. I do have a problem discussing politics or religion so I will stay far away from those topics. Actually, the fans create the polarization. The Beach Boys never gave me anything, but enjoyment. I don’t hate anyone in the band. For me, it is all about the music and those voices.
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 13:13:04 GMT -5
Opinions are what keep these discussions going. I think it would be boring if we all felt exactly the same way about things. We all have different tastes and backgrounds and that keeps things interesting.
As long as we're respectful and not being insulting, I think we're doing ok.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 6, 2019 13:21:43 GMT -5
Opinions are what keep these discussions going. I think it would be boring if we all felt exactly the same way about things. We all have different tastes and backgrounds and that keeps things interesting. As long as we're respectful and not being insulting, I think we're doing ok.Yes.
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Post by AGD on Jan 6, 2019 16:31:19 GMT -5
Should add that sculptures, whatever they symbolize - freedom etc. - don't interest me at all. We get it. You don't like stuff. That's all fine and dandy, but you don't need to keep telling us that you don't like stuff. Reminds me of a hugely annoying little kid who used to come into a c-store I managed and walked along the sweet racks saying "don't like that, don't like that, dont like that, HATE that" week after week after week.
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