atree
Grommet
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Post by atree on Jul 5, 2020 14:50:53 GMT -5
I understand Dennis had a dispute over the track sequencing for Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again? which resulted in him pulling his songs from Surf's Up.
Was 4th Of July one of the songs slated to be on the album?
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Post by Mikie on Jul 5, 2020 16:07:13 GMT -5
According to the trustworthy Bellagio website, there were four recording sessions for "4th Of July" (a.k.a. "Old Movie") in the Spring and Summer months leading up to the release of the "Surf's Up" album. So I would say yes, the song was considered for inclusion on the album.
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Post by AGD on Jul 5, 2020 16:40:17 GMT -5
Basically, Carl & Dennis butted heads over the sequencing - Carl wanted "Surf's Up" to close the album - so Dennis had a bit of a hissyfit and pulled his tracks from it. Those Wilson boys, huh ?
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atree
Grommet
Posts: 24
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Post by atree on Jul 5, 2020 16:50:06 GMT -5
Thanks to all.
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Post by Mikie on Jul 5, 2020 19:39:47 GMT -5
Thanks, Craig.
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Post by AGD on Jul 6, 2020 0:53:23 GMT -5
According to the trustworthy Bellagio website, there were four recording sessions for "4th Of July" (a.k.a. "Old Movie") in the Spring and Summer months leading up to the release of the "Surf's Up" album. So I would say yes, the song was considered for inclusion on the album. There's a woman at the door, name of Kaye, would like a word with you... |
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Post by donnylang on Jul 6, 2020 16:36:32 GMT -5
“Fourth of July” segues *exactly* between “Don’t Go Near the Water” and “Long Promised Road” - you can cross fade all three into a song-suite with total musical and audio continuity. Same with end of “Till I Die” and The beginning of “Wouldn’t It Be Nice To Live Again”.
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Post by AGD on Jul 6, 2020 17:31:57 GMT -5
Don't doubt you can... but I do doubt that this was intentional.
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Post by donnylang on Jul 6, 2020 17:43:27 GMT -5
Don't doubt you can... but I do doubt that this was intentional. It’s almost too close to not be intentional IMO ... particularly since “Fourth of July” fades in with the first second or two seemingly cut off - and “Long Promised Road”’s intro sounds like it’s fairly abrupt/sounds like something was clipped ahead of it. Who knows of course, but it sounds like it may have been spliced between these two like “CA Saga” at some point. I would think if there were evidence to suggest this, Liberty, Boyd, etc would have noted it at some point though. |
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Post by donnylang on Jul 6, 2020 17:44:31 GMT -5
Fast & dirty example of what I'm talking about:
soundcloud.com/user-545688973/surfs-up-suite
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Post by donnylang on Jul 6, 2020 17:46:36 GMT -5
*nevermind - can't upload there
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher 
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Post by petsite on Jul 6, 2020 20:17:38 GMT -5
Dennis wanted Live Again to close the LP and he and Carl really had a fight.
There is a demo of 4th with Jack just riffing over the track. There is also a version with a guitar playing the melody line.
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Post by craigslowinski on Jul 6, 2020 21:24:12 GMT -5
There's also Dennis' apparent lack of interest in finishing things at the time. Carl's vocal was done at Brian's birthday party without Dennis present and then erased from the multitrack, so you have to wonder if he had any input on or even approved of Jack's lyrics. Dennis might've later been planning to turn it into an instrumental for his solo project - there were already horns (in the Rieley demo vocal mix, buried in the Carl mix right at the edge of hearing), and at some point a couple of electric guitars were added substituting the vocal melody, plus a mass of "ahhhh" backing vocals. Do we know if most of the Dennis & Daryl tapes were within the Surf's Up era or after? Barbara, All of My Love and the so-called 'quad symphony' tracks were apparently around by April 1971 for Desper's AES lecture. Behold the Night and It's a New Day seem slightly late for Surf's Up consideration. Here's the full list that I know of: Fourth of July Barnyard Blues Ol' Movie All of My Love / Ecology Barbara 'Quad Symphony' demos Live Again It's a New Day Behold the Night Hawaii Song Before I've Got a Friend Baby, Baby Sea Cruise "Barnyard Blues" was started in '71, but not finished until '74. I think "I've Got A Friend" came along later in '71. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Jul 7, 2020 9:26:51 GMT -5
"Barnyard Blues" was started in '71, but not finished until '74. I think "I've Got A Friend" came along later in '71. Is that the same recording that was released on Made in California? I was under the assumption that the 71 version was a separate piano demo. From my notes: "Optimistically slated by engineer Desper as "Beach Boys - New Hit Single, Take One", the basic track was laid down on March 15th of 1971, with Carl on bass, Dennis on drums, and Daryl Dragon on funky wah-wah clavinet." The clavinet was later replaced by tack piano and many more overdubs were added, including vocals by Dennis, Carl, and Ricky - all presumably in '74. |
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tonyw
Dude/Dudette
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Post by tonyw on Jul 7, 2020 17:29:46 GMT -5
“Fourth of July” segues *exactly* between “Don’t Go Near the Water” and “Long Promised Road” - you can cross fade all three into a song-suite with total musical and audio continuity. Same with end of “Till I Die” and The beginning of “Wouldn’t It Be Nice To Live Again”. Cool! That's the same sequence I have on the version of Surfs Up I listen to. |
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Post by jasonaustin on Jul 8, 2020 22:20:21 GMT -5
There's also Dennis' apparent lack of interest in finishing things at the time. Carl's vocal was done at Brian's birthday party without Dennis present and then erased from the multitrack, so you have to wonder if he had any input on or even approved of Jack's lyrics. Dennis might've later been planning to turn it into an instrumental for his solo project - there were already horns (in the Rieley demo vocal mix, buried in the Carl mix right at the edge of hearing), and at some point a couple of electric guitars were added substituting the vocal melody, plus a mass of "ahhhh" backing vocals. Do we know if most of the Dennis & Daryl tapes were within the Surf's Up era or after? Barbara, All of My Love and the so-called 'quad symphony' tracks were apparently around by April 1971 for Desper's AES lecture. Behold the Night and It's a New Day seem slightly late for Surf's Up consideration. Here's the full list that I know of: Fourth of July Barnyard Blues Ol' Movie All of My Love / Ecology Barbara 'Quad Symphony' demos Live Again It's a New Day Behold the Night Hawaii Song Before I've Got a Friend Baby, Baby Sea Cruise Unfortunately I can't offer much in the way of help when it comes to recording dates (I rely on Andrew's site for those) but I wanted to mention that I've tried to come up with a listenable attempt at Poops/Hubba Hubba recently using most of the above. Since Behold the Night, Baby Baby and Before have never seen the light of day (although I thought I remember somebody here claiming to have a copy of one of those... forget which offhand) I had to substitute in things like Sound of Free, San Miguel, Lady, etc. to get it back up to album length. Honestly, even with the addition of those fully realized songs, it's clear that the album was a ways off from being finished, certainly moreso than Smile. Unless there's more developed versions of some of these songs that haven't been located, I think it's likely that Dennis either lost interest or didn't have enough time to see it through. It's too bad because an unreleased 1971 Dennis Wilson album is a tantalizing concept, but I don't think such a thing would ever be releasable even as an archival issue. I'd love to be proven wrong of course. |
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Post by AGD on Jul 9, 2020 9:56:20 GMT -5
There's a very poor Liv tape of "Baby, Baby".
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Post by jasonaustin on Jul 9, 2020 11:37:56 GMT -5
There's a very poor Liv tape of "Baby, Baby". That's cool, I'd be curious to obtain a copy and see what I could do with my noise reduction plug-ins. I had decent results recently with the Luxembourg I've Got a Friend. |
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Post by Mikie on Jul 9, 2020 12:05:37 GMT -5
There's a very poor Liv tape of "Baby, Baby". I had decent results recently with the Luxembourg I've Got a Friend. I know of 3 or 4 live versions of that. This Luxemborg show was recorded off the radio at night with adverse atmospheric conditions outside, and there's a lot of 'hiss'. I'd like to hear your results if the noise reduction doesn't compromise the integrity of the recording! |
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Post by jiggy22 on Jul 9, 2020 13:45:37 GMT -5
The best-sounding live “I’ve Got a Friend” I’ve heard comes from the 12/71 show with Brian and Jack performing “A Day in the Life of a Tree.” Has some warbling issues, but definitely a LOT less hiss than the ither versions circulating.
Also, thanks to Salty, we have recently deduced that the “slow” section of “Quad Symphony” is actually an early version of “Cocktails” from the Bambu sessions. Makes a lot of sense, considering the section isn’t heard at all during Desper’s presentation.
I’ve recently transcribed the lyrics to both “I’ve Got a Friend” and the “Fourth of July” development demo; I can share them in a new thread if anyone’s interested!
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Post by jasonaustin on Jul 9, 2020 14:16:00 GMT -5
The best-sounding live “I’ve Got a Friend” I’ve heard comes from the 12/71 show with Brian and Jack performing “A Day in the Life of a Tree.” Has some warbling issues, but definitely a LOT less hiss than the ither versions circulating. Also, thanks to Salty, we have recently deduced that the “slow” section of “Quad Symphony” is actually an early version of “Cocktails” from the Bambu sessions. Makes a lot of sense, considering the section isn’t heard at all during Desper’s presentation. I’ve recently transcribed the lyrics to both “I’ve Got a Friend” and the “Fourth of July” development demo; I can share them in a new thread if anyone’s interested! The slow section being the piano/organ duets or the part with the breakbeat and electric guitar? That last bit is actually "Peaches" in a different key then the demo. |
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Post by AGD on Jul 9, 2020 14:37:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the so-called "Quad Symphony" is purely a fan construct, given that SWD played me all the elements in isolation and never once mentioned anything about them going together. Purely demo items.
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Post by jiggy22 on Jul 9, 2020 15:20:22 GMT -5
Description of Ecology: Part 2, courtesy of catbirdman on the SS board (props to Salty for finding this):
"Then there’s a count-in to a different section. We hear water bubble sounds and exotic Moog sounds over a shimmery Eastern-flavored track. If you’re familiar with Pink Floyd’s Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, Richard Wright’s keyboard parts in particular, that will give you a feel for the mood and modality of this section. Dennis had laid down some backing vocals as well, and I can hear the exact melody in my head, a chant-like “run, run, river run / move the body.” This section was WAY COOL."
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Post by AGD on Jul 9, 2020 17:59:06 GMT -5
And you believe that ? 😜
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Post by Mikie on Jul 9, 2020 18:04:47 GMT -5
I've only heard one 'Quad Symphony' (unless it's on a boot with other stuff mixed/intertwined and I've forgotten). The "Quad Symphony" that I originally heard and have always known was recorded with a microphone in the audience at a Beach Boys fan convention in Oakland that I attended in the early 80's. Desper was there and he played Beach Boys tracks, mostly Dennis material as I remember. The same 'Quad Symphony' and other tracks that he played that day made it onto a bootleg tape/mp3/CD. If there were any other tracks/versions of it, they were subsequently labelled something else.
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