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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 14, 2019 15:11:45 GMT -5
Nice mix Zebulan! Here are the December Hawaiian Chant vocals I was talking about. Hope you can extract them well with Spleeter! DYLW - Acetate "Remastered"
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 14, 2019 17:52:09 GMT -5
Nice mix Zebulan! Here are the December Hawaiian Chant vocals I was talking about. Hope you can extract them well with Spleeter! DYLW - Acetate "Remastered"Those vocals are an earlier set from October that were erased and replaced by the more common ones. Get outta here! Really? That's amazing, and a shame. Oh well. Nevermind Zeb!
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Post by zebulan on Nov 14, 2019 18:15:21 GMT -5
Well, I tried (before seeing saltymarshmallow's post), but I don't think it turned out good enough to be usable. Some sweet day we'll have the technology to extract those vocals properly, but not today! voca.ro/57J3lufuxDG
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Tilt Araiza
Dude/Dudette
Dominated Ruins Columbo
Posts: 64
Likes: 85
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Post by Tilt Araiza on Nov 17, 2019 17:28:20 GMT -5
I made of video for Do You Like Worms out of bits of public domain film. It's more than a little on-the-nose, but it's just for fun.
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 18, 2019 17:47:16 GMT -5
I made of video for Do You Like Worms out of bits of public domain film. It's more than a little on-the-nose, but it's just for fun.
Lovely video! I did something like this too, a long time ago. Once I finish my Smile mix, I intend to make a movie out of it. Btw folks, I'd like to pose a new question to the Sandbox: Do you think Brian had only envisioned the 4 Part 2 H&V chants to be assembled in only 1 sequence/order? Obviously it begins with Gee and Animals, but can only the Clip-Clop and Part 4 chants continue it? Maybe someone can help me figure out this knot in my Brain: I'm tryin to make a good guess at how the Part 2 chants would have been sequenced. I'm assuming they were for Side B of a H&V single, not Side A. The Side A I'm using is the February Version we all know and love with Cantina. So if we're using that mix for Side A, here are the limitations of Side B: We cannot end Side B with a Fadeout because it's already being used on Side A. So if the Prelude to Fade is used on Side B, it cannot be followed by the fadeout. It could be followed by the Piano Ditty fading out. But here's the thing: if we're using the Prelude to Fade on Side B, then we cannot use the Part 4 chant, because that chant ends with the Whistle Bridge (which is also already used on Side A), and the the Whistle Bridge mirrors the role of the Prelude to Fade by providing the H&V motif as a finale before the fadeout. So a Side B mix for the February version of H&V cannot contain the Part 4 chant. That must mean that there are indeed different mixes for the Side B chants. There must have been a version of H&V where the Prelude to Fade was on Side A, so that the Part 4 & Whistle Bridge sections could be on Side B with the other chants. OR... maybe Side A was revised when Brian came up with the Side B chants. Another thing I'm also trying to keep in mind is how uncertain Brian was with the sequences he was producing. From interviews, it sounds as if Brian was just creating multiple mixes at a time, and at the end would choose the best one for the Single. And if that's the case, then by February, Brian already has at least 2 (to me, 3) versions of H&V waiting for final judgement. Would Brian have made individual mixes of Side B for these different Side As?
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Post by zebulan on Nov 18, 2019 21:27:55 GMT -5
An a-side mix containing Prelude to Fade would have to be structured something like this:
Verse 1&2 unknown Children Were Raised Three Score and Five unknown Prelude to Fade Sunshine Fade
You can't go from Verse 1&2 directly to CWR, nor can you cut from Three Score to Prelude. I doubt Prelude was intended to replace the 3rd verse (CWR/TSaF) because that would cause the standard verse to only occur at the start of the song, which doesn't feel right to me. So Prelude has to be the 4th verse (so long to the city/stand or fall).
I suppose you could use Bridge to Indians to transition from Verse 1&2 to Cantina, but other than that I don't think there's any way for Cantina to fit in this structure without exceeding the three-and-a-half minute time constraint. I also suspect that the Verse Edit Experiment splice idea would have already been abandoned permanently by this point for the same reason why you don't see many fan mixes using it... it's abrupt.
So, if Cantina was out of the song, what would fill those gaps in the above structure? My guess is that both gaps would be filled by the same section: a chorus using the Bicycle Rider melody.
Now consider this: TSS disc 2 track 20 (AKA Piano Ditty) was recorded on Feb 16. That's the day after Prelude to Fade was recorded. I think it is pretty safe to infer that they were both done for the same version of the song, so I think the H&V a-side structure at this point would have been:
Verse 1&2 Piano Ditty Children Were Raised Three Score and Five Piano Ditty Prelude to Fade Sunshine Fade
If you use the short version of Piano Ditty, it transitions perfectly into either Children Were Raised or Prelude to Fade. The verses could transition into Piano Ditty either with a hard cut (I haven't tested this to see if it works), fading out the backing track at the end of the motif (I think some vintage edits on UM17 do this), using the same vocal bit and early backing track fade out that Smiley Smile uses, using Bridge to Indians, or using Mission Pak.
Also, notice that the Feb 27 section that became the Smiley chorus (which I'll just call the Smiley chorus from here on) is really similar to Piano Ditty. The Smiley chorus was recorded 2 days before the verse remake, and both were under the same master number. Now, whether you think the master numbers mean those sections were intended for side b or not, I think it's likely that the Smiley chorus, verse remake, and fade remake were all intended for the same continuous stretch of music, whether it be an a-side or a b-side, and I think it's clear the Smiley chorus was intended to be used following the verse remake. And of course, when the Smiley Smile single was made, the section was used as a chorus, albeit with the original verse.
With this all in mind, I think the structure I've suggested above is most likely what the H&V a-side looked like on Feb 16.
And then comes all the chants. I think it is possible that the early demo of Animals with the wish upon a star ending may have been considered as a replacement for Piano Ditty as the chorus (part 2) of the song. But by the time it was recorded with the shorter ending, and definitely by the time the Gee->Animals edit was made, the section had moved to the b-side. Hold On (which uses a Bicycle Rider melody variant) might have also been considered as a chorus, but I really don't think Gee or Version 4 were ever intended for anything but the b-side.
Note that Piano Ditty sounds much more like the original Bicycle Rider than any of the chant sections. Of course, it also sounds really close to the Smiley chorus. Because of this, I've come to the conclusion that Piano Ditty was most likely still the H&V chorus from Feb 15 all the way through to March, and that all of the chants were intended for the b-side by the time they were recorded. Essentially, I think the H&V a-side structure didn't change between Feb 15 to Feb 21, so that period of time was dedicated to working on the b-side.
Does anyone know what was done at the Feb 24 and Feb 26 sessions for H&V?
On Feb 27, it looks like Brian just recorded a revised version of Piano Ditty, and on the following dates he proceeded to rerecord the verse and fade, as well as create an intro based on the older part 3 "chimes" section and Bag of Tricks. I think it's pretty clear that a structure using these sections would probably just be this:
Intro Verse Remake Smiley Chorus Verse Remake Smiley Chorus Fade Remake
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 18, 2019 22:46:08 GMT -5
An a-side mix containing Prelude to Fade would have to be structured something like this: Verse 1&2 unknownChildren Were Raised Three Score and Five unknownPrelude to Fade Sunshine Fade Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm eye-to-eye with you on this. You can't go from Verse 1&2 directly to CWR, nor can you cut from Three Score to Prelude. Exactly. Otherwise Heroes and Villains would just be a song of verses. I doubt Prelude was intended to replace the 3rd verse (CWR/TSaF) because that would cause the standard verse to only occur at the start of the song, which doesn't feel right to me. So Prelude has to be the 4th verse (so long to the city/stand or fall). 100% agree. The question is, which side (A or B) does the 4th verse fall upon? I suspect the answer depends on which mix one uses. Before late-February, Verse 4 was probably on Side B. From late-February and onward, Verse 4 was most likely on Side A. I suppose you could use Bridge to Indians to transition from Verse 1&2 to Cantina, but other than that I don't think there's any way for Cantina to fit in this structure without exceeding the three-and-a-half minute time constraint. I also suspect that the Verse Edit Experiment splice idea would have already been abandoned permanently by this point for the same reason why you don't see many fan mixes using it... it's abrupt. You could use Bridge to Indians to transition to Cantina, but I agree that it wouldn't work. Bridge to Indians (for the H&V Single) works better as a vocal bridge to the Choruses. I think you can fit Cantina into a mix with the Prelude in it, you just have to cutout the Barnshine fadeout. Fade out of the song instead with a repeated H&V chorus following the Prelude, like in the Smiley Smile version. You can make a mix like this below, that'll last around 3:30 which is totally doable. Verses 1+2 Bridge to Indians Chorus Children Were Raised Verse 3 Verse Vocal Bridge Cantina Pickup to 3rd Verse Prelude to Fade Chorus (Fadeout) As for the Bridge to Indians idea/mix, my honest opinion is that it was for the album version of Heroes and Villains, not the single. So I don't believe it was abandoned, more like finished and no longer needed. I theorize that the album version of Heroes and Villains would have gone like such: Verses 1+2 Bridge to Indians Do You Like Worms (Part 1) *Unknown 3rd Section* And that would have led into The Elements/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, which leads into I'm In Great Shape, which is the last track on Side A of Smile. These are my own ideas for my own Smile mix, and I certainly do not believe that these ideas are the true mixes Brian would have used. These are my educated guesses, not answers. Anyway, I think this track sequence reveals how the original version of the Heroes and Villains Single (the Humble Harv version) serves as like a "trailer" to the Smile Album. Within the span of 3 major tracks on the album, we begin with the Heroes and Villains verse, and then end with Great Shape and Barnyard, leaving the December version of the H&V single to act as a truncated version of Smile itself. I personally enjoy the abruptness of the Bridge to Indians cut. It reminds me that I'm listening to something revolutionary. So, if Cantina was out of the song, what would fill those gaps in the above structure? My guess is that both gaps would be filled by the same section: a chorus using the Bicycle Rider melody. Marilyn attests that Cantina was out of the song at some point, and we certainly know that's true come June/July. I think Cantina would have been scrapped come March. And I've yet to fully make my mind up on this, but in my Heroes and Villains March Mix, Cantina is replaced by the Organ Waltz. I know, controversial, but I just feel that the Organ Waltz is the crazy new section Brian made that was inspired by the events at the police station. My Heroes and Villains March Mix is very similar to the Smiley Smile version. Just imagine in the Smiley Smile version, CWR replaced by the Organ waltz, proceeding the Verse Vocal Bridge. The Verse Vocal Bridge in the Smiley Smile version has an extra "WHOO" played on the theremin added at the end. My March mix mirrors this by having the whistle at the beginning of the Organ Waltz behave in a similar fashion. Plus, the Smiley Smile version of CWR ends on an organ drone, and so does the Organ Waltz. Then both go right into Verse 4. Now consider this: TSS disc 2 track 20 (AKA Piano Ditty) was recorded on Feb 16. That's the day after Prelude to Fade was recorded. I think it is pretty safe to infer that they were both done for the same version of the song, so I think the H&V a-side structure at this point would have been: Verse 1&2 Piano Ditty Children Were Raised Three Score and Five Piano Ditty Prelude to Fade Sunshine Fade If you use the short version of Piano Ditty, it transitions perfectly into either Children Were Raised or Prelude to Fade. The verses could transition into Piano Ditty either with a hard cut (I haven't tested this to see if it works), fading out the backing track at the end of the motif (I think some vintage edits on UM17 do this), using the same vocal bit and early backing track fade out that Smiley Smile uses, using Bridge to Indians, or using Mission Pak. That's a brilliant idea for a mix. I can't believe I've never thought of it before. My only concern comes from how we transition from the Chorus to the Verse twice in the song, which I think could bore the audience the 2nd time round. Can you please make this mix and upload it? I'd love to hear it! Use hard cuts in between the Choruses and Verses. Note that Piano Ditty sounds much more like the original Bicycle Rider than any of the chant sections. Of course, it also sounds really close to the Smiley chorus. Because of this, I've come to the conclusion that Piano Ditty was most likely still the H&V chorus from Feb 15 all the way through to March, and that all of the chants were intended for the b-side by the time they were recorded. Essentially, I think the H&V a-side structure didn't change between Feb 15 to Feb 21, so that period of time was dedicated to working on the b-side. Interesting... that would certainly make things less complicated. I hope it's true. Does anyone know what was done at the Feb 24 and Feb 26 sessions for H&V? What I have written down in my calendar is that they were Vocal sessions done by Brian. I would easily assume they were vocal sessions for the Prelude and Piano Ditty. This is more of a question for Saltymarshmallow tho. He'll have the answer. On Feb 27, it looks like Brian just recorded a revised version of Piano Ditty, and on the following dates he proceeded to rerecord the verse and fade, as well as create an intro based on the older part 3 "chimes" section and Bag of Tricks. I think it's pretty clear that a structure using these sections would probably just be this: Intro Verse Remake Smiley Chorus Verse Remake Smiley Chorus Fade Remake He was basically recreating everything he has already recorded. So whatever the March 2nd "Part II Insert" was for, I'd bet we already have an earlier version of it. I would like to hear you March Side B mix!
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Post by zebulan on Nov 19, 2019 1:55:13 GMT -5
I doubt Prelude was intended to replace the 3rd verse (CWR/TSaF) because that would cause the standard verse to only occur at the start of the song, which doesn't feel right to me. So Prelude has to be the 4th verse (so long to the city/stand or fall). 100% agree. The question is, which side (A or B) does the 4th verse fall upon? I suspect the answer depends on which mix one uses. Before late-February, Verse 4 was probably on Side B. From late-February and onward, Verse 4 was most likely on Side B. I think you made a typo here? You could use Bridge to Indians to transition to Cantina, but I agree that it wouldn't work. Bridge to Indians (for the H&V Single) works better as a vocal bridge to the Choruses. I think you can fit Cantina into a mix with the Prelude in it, you just have to cutout the Barnshine fadeout. Fade out of the song instead with a repeated H&V chorus following the Prelude, like in the Smiley Smile version. You can make a mix like this below, that'll last around 3:30 which is totally doable. Verses 1+2 Bridge to Indians Chorus Children Were Raised Verse 3 Verse Vocal Bridge Cantina Pickup to 3rd Verse Prelude to Fade Chorus (Fadeout) Thanks for pointing that out. You're right that with a shorter fade, you can actually fit Cantina into a mix with Prelude after all. I decided to make some test mixes to see how this would sound. (See below.) Also, I don't think Pickup to 3rd Verse needs to come after Cantina because Cantina already has the mandolin play the pickup right before the "woo-ooo-ooo" and "you're under arrest!" As for the Bridge to Indians idea/mix, my honest opinion is that it was for the album version of Heroes and Villains, not the single. So I don't believe it was abandoned, more like finished and no longer needed. I theorize that the album version of Heroes and Villains would have gone like such: Verses 1+2 Bridge to Indians Do You Like Worms (Part 1) *Unknown 3rd Section* And that would have led into The Elements/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, which leads into I'm In Great Shape, which is the last track on Side A of Smile. These are my own ideas for my own Smile mix, and I certainly do not believe that these ideas are the true mixes Brian would have used. These are my educated guesses, not answers. Anyway, I think this track sequence reveals how the original version of the Heroes and Villains Single (the Humble Harv version) serves as like a "trailer" to the Smile Album. Within the span of 3 major tracks on the album, we begin with the Heroes and Villains verse, and then end with Great Shape and Barnyard, leaving the December version of the H&V single to act as a truncated version of Smile itself. I personally enjoy the abruptness of the Bridge to Indians cut. It reminds me that I'm listening to something revolutionary. I personally don't (currently) think SMiLE would have had crazy song section mashups like that, but if you think you can make a good mix from that concept, go for it. As for the Bridge to Indians cut, I go back and forth on how much I like it. At the same time, I think the Smiley Verse->Chorus transition is a bit too slow. I think the early 1970s live H&V may have had the best transition from the verse to the chorus; it's simple, but it works well. Marilyn attests that Cantina was out of the song at some point, and we certainly know that's true come June/July. I think Cantina would have been scrapped come March. And I've yet to fully make my mind up on this, but in my Heroes and Villains March Mix, Cantina is replaced by the Organ Waltz. I know, controversial, but I just feel that the Organ Waltz is the crazy new section Brian made that was inspired by the events at the police station. My Heroes and Villains March Mix is very similar to the Smiley Smile version. Just imagine in the Smiley Smile version, CWR replaced by the Organ waltz, proceeding the Verse Vocal Bridge. The Verse Vocal Bridge in the Smiley Smile version has an extra "WHOO" played on the theremin added at the end. My March mix mirrors this by having the whistle at the beginning of the Organ Waltz behave in a similar fashion. Plus, the Smiley Smile version of CWR ends on an organ drone, and so does the Organ Waltz. Then both go right into Verse 4. I think you mean "following", not "proceeding"? Anyway, I think you're probably right about Organ Waltz (the section I was calling "intro", right?) being the one recorded after Brian's police station visit. That Smiley Smile inspired structure sounds pretty interesting, actually. I think you might be on to something there. Maybe I'll try making a mix with that structure in the future. Now consider this: TSS disc 2 track 20 (AKA Piano Ditty) was recorded on Feb 16. That's the day after Prelude to Fade was recorded. I think it is pretty safe to infer that they were both done for the same version of the song, so I think the H&V a-side structure at this point would have been: Verse 1&2 Piano Ditty Children Were Raised Three Score and Five Piano Ditty Prelude to Fade Sunshine Fade That's a brilliant idea for a mix. I can't believe I've never thought of it before. My only concern comes from how we transition from the Chorus to the Verse twice in the song, which I think could bore the audience the 2nd time round. Can you please make this mix and upload it? I'd love to hear it! Use hard cuts in between the Choruses and Verses. Do you mean the transition from the Verse to the Chorus? If so, then yeah, I can see how that might seem a bit monotonous. I guess you could change it up by singing different lyrics (e.g. sing "bicycle rider" and/or "ribbon of concrete" in place of "heroes and villains" on the second chorus). Or maybe you could transition into Cantina after Three Score and Five and then have the chorus appear again as the fade. I made not 1, not 2, but 8 mixes using Piano Ditty and/or Cantina to see how different transitions sounded. Let me know which ones you think are plausible. drive.google.com/open?id=1gC2vyf_7x6Vf5Saf9iox-Rxf6wfanWLs
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 19, 2019 16:51:36 GMT -5
Also, I don't think Pickup to 3rd Verse needs to come after Cantina because Cantina already has the mandolin play the pickup right before the "woo-ooo-ooo" and "you're under arrest!" That's very true! The Mandolin melody isn't actually the Pickup, but it's very similar. In my earlier mixes, I used to use the "YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!" bridge, but I ultimately decided against it. I think it works best when CWR follows it, but not when the Grande Finale of the song comes after it. This is a very minute thing however, so I wouldn't hate a mix that ignores this. Personally, I feel that after hearing the Bridge to Indians in the beginning of the song, the audience should hear the Pickup as an indicator that we're coming full circle. Nice mixes! I think you're really getting somewhere come mix #8. It's pretty much my mix for Side A.
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Post by zebulan on Nov 22, 2019 20:41:57 GMT -5
Is Secret Smile disc 2 track 28 the best source for the Love to Say Dada vocal overdub?
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Nov 29, 2019 18:39:40 GMT -5
Hi everyone! New question to post: Regarding the Late February/Early March Heroes and Villains sessions, what were the "official" names for the following pieces? Official as in what they were referred to on the tape boxes themselves. - Chorus Remake - Verse Remake - Intro Remake - March 2nd Session - Fade Remake Any notes on the boxes too will help, thanks! I'm trying to come up with a decent March mix for my Heroes and Villains thread. I have a mix at the moment, but I'm thinking about scraping it. I've got some new ideas I'd like to try out. Like this: If I remember correctly, the Chorus Remake is call Part II, and the Intro Remake is called Intro to Part II. So maybe an idea to try is to use the Intro as a transition piece between the Verse and Chorus. Just curious to see if I could engage in a little confirmation bias if possible
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Post by Cam Mott on Nov 30, 2019 8:26:22 GMT -5
Broken record here. (I am the "broken record" in this scenario)
Just going from memory, to me, the best evidence would have most these intended for the SIDE 2 titled H&V-PART II 57045.
SIDE 1/ FIRST PART 57020 would be anybody's guess but presumably verses with whatever Bri incorporated from what he recorded from Feb 15 through Feb 26 to replace the cantina versions: prelude to fade, piano theme, the last version of 57020 part 2, part 3, part 4, etc., etc., possibly/probably incorporating other repurposed bits (ala GV, H&V cantina, and H&V July single) in Bri's go-to structure at the time (ala GV, H&V cantina, Vt April single H&V July single).
But that is just me.............apparently.
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Post by Cam Mott on Nov 30, 2019 18:43:49 GMT -5
It seems to me that we have a bunch of direction as to how February H&V SIDE 1 57020 was going go. It had a part 1 (presumably verses) even if not noted, because it had an identified revised part 2, it had an identified part 3, and an identified part 4, an identified prelude to fade, and therefore a fade. Why fight the directions Bri provided says I. Verses, chorus, bridge, fade. Easy peasy. (runs away)
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Post by zebulan on Nov 30, 2019 18:54:30 GMT -5
It seems to me that we have a bunch of direction as to how February H&V SIDE 1 57020 was going go. It had a part 1 (presumably verses) even if not noted, because it had an identified revised part 2, it had an identified part 3, and an identified part 4, an identified prelude to fade, and therefore a fade. Why fight the directions Bri provided says I. Verses, chorus, bridge, fade. Easy peasy. (runs away) What was the part 3? What was the part 4?
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Post by Cam Mott on Dec 1, 2019 10:15:29 GMT -5
I don't remember, but someone will jump in and clarify or correct me.
Part 2 = a HV/BR chorus maybe? Part 3 = swedish frog Part 4 = HV/BR? fade?
They are noted on TSS, I believe.
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Post by Cam Mott on Dec 1, 2019 17:05:46 GMT -5
I don't remember, but someone will jump in and clarify or correct me. Part 2 = a HV/BR chorus maybe? Part 3 = swedish frog Part 4 = HV/BR? fade? They are noted on TSS, I believe. Neither of the 'Part 3' or 'Part 4' titles on the boxset are original. The only identified 'Part 3' is the mystery date 'Chimes' section from December and there is no Part 4. Interesting, where did those "Part 3" and "Part 4" designations come from?
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Post by zebulan on Dec 4, 2019 18:27:50 GMT -5
Neither of the 'Part 3' or 'Part 4' titles on the boxset are original. The only identified 'Part 3' is the mystery date 'Chimes' section from December and there is no Part 4. Interesting, where did those "Part 3" and "Part 4" designations come from? If I had to guess, I'd say that Animals was probably called "Part 3" because of the vintage Gee->Animals edit, and the slow chant that resembles Whistling Bridge was called "Part 4" because it is called "Version 4 Part 2" on tape (on the Archaeology bootleg). But aside from guesses, I have no idea. The name Version 4 Part 2 implies that section is not actually a Part 4 unless the "Part 2" refers to the b-side and it is the 4th part of that b-side. Also, Animals is clearly the finished version of TSS disc 2 track 21, which is called "Heroes and Villains Part 2" by Brian on tape. And of course, both Gee and Hold On are called "Part 2 Revised Version" on tape. I think the weirdness of all of these sections being called "Part 2" at some point (plus the existence of the Gee->Animals edit) is one of the reasons why people can't agree on whether the chants were part of the a-side or the b-side. I currently fall into the camp of saying they must have been part of the b-side (at least by the time the Gee->Animals edit was made) because: - The Gee->Animals edit wouldn't work on the a-side without eating up too much time in the song with constant chanting of the same "Heroes and Villains" phrase over and over. It sounds like something that works best on the b-side. - I really doubt Version 4 Part 2 was ever the part 2 of the a-side because it feels too slow. I think it would destroy the pacing of the song if it came after Verse 1&2. Again, it sounds like something that works best on the b-side to me. - The very concept of creating multiple sections that contain mostly repeated chanting of the same three words over and over sounds like b-side material to me. Moving on to another topic, I decided to try and sing the "West or East Indies" lyrics over DYLW Part 4. While trying to figure out where to put the lyrics, I realized that the start of Part 4 is the same as the end of the Smiley chorus ("nah nah nah..."). I feel silly for not noticing that before. Following dumdangel's suggestion, I put the Indies lyrics over the part with "the harpsichord falling apart into disarray". Here's the audio file. As you can tell, I'm not exactly a professional singer, but it should be decent enough to give you an idea of how the lyrics may have been intended to flow over that section. I think maybe the "confused" lyric is supposed to alternate up and down in pitch (similar to the BWPS woo-ooo-ooo), but I didn't want to spend another 30 minutes trying to pull that off properly when it was easier to just try and maintain the same pitch.
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Post by Cam Mott on Dec 5, 2019 6:22:11 GMT -5
Maybe others with better info will join in but it now seems to me all of Feb 20/21 were documented as for Part 2 of 57020 FIRST PART/SIDE 1.
Maybe Part 3 was a separate section to follow a Part 2 made of the remaining takes, or maybe they are all just alternate versions/revisions of Part 2 for 57020 to be used singly or collectively as Part 2 for 57020, presumably as the replacement for the cantina Part 2.
Corrections welcome, I'm going from memory.
Sidebar, also from memory, the Boys' contract* with Capitol was based on certain sliding scale numbers of "masters" delivered in a year span. I suppose tracking and identifying masters had a certain importance for/to Capitol. Logging of what went where within each master I suppose was more by and for Brian as Producer.
*I'll try to verify that if I can remember or read the tiny type these days.
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Post by Micha on Dec 5, 2019 23:59:12 GMT -5
"My theory has been that the lyrics would go over the "na na na na" part. They get to the word "confused" just as the track begins to break down"
I agree with that. If you sing "the" between the lines, "Having returned to (the) East or West Indies" has the same amount of notes as "Bicycle rider, just see what you've done".
"and then Brian probably would've done some wild vocal arrangement that would've blown our minds."
Sad fact is he didn't.
"Then when he mashed Part 2 and Part 4 together to create the Heroes chorus"
I rather think originally the Bicycle Rider theme was musically completely like the H&V chorus, then Brian ripped it apart when turning BR into DYLW, and then he put it back together again and used it as the H&V chorus. He didn't "mash together" two parts of DYLW, he put the parts back together for use as a chorus.
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Post by zebulan on Dec 7, 2019 12:24:47 GMT -5
Was the final version of the I'm in Great Shape title section recorded before or after I Wanna Be Around? And when was the H&V Chimes Part 3 recorded relative to these sections? I'm trying to figure out what was the H&V part 2 when the Chimes section was recorded.
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Post by jiggy22 on Dec 7, 2019 14:21:26 GMT -5
Was the final version of the I'm in Great Shape title section recorded before or after I Wanna Be Around? And when was the H&V Chimes Part 3 recorded relative to these sections? I'm trying to figure out what was the H&V part 2 when the Chimes section was recorded. Are you talking about the Durrie Parks version? That one was most likely recorded on December 19th. I Wanna Be Around was recorded on November 29th.
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Dec 9, 2019 22:21:27 GMT -5
We don't have any information on Chimes/Part 3. It's 8-track with Jerry Hockman calling the slate which places it at Columbia, and it appears on a comp reel with other recordings mostly from around the December '66 period, but that's all there is. It's only on that comp reel. Why the f*ck won't somebody ask Brian what the f*ck it was for? The most annoying part about being a Smile fan, is knowing that you will not get an answer, even tho it's creator is still alive Was the final version of the I'm in Great Shape title section recorded before or after I Wanna Be Around? And when was the H&V Chimes Part 3 recorded relative to these sections? I'm trying to figure out what was the H&V part 2 when the Chimes section was recorded. A fantasy theory I believe in sometimes for fun, is that Brian put together the Barnyard suite, and didn't like how the original version of Great Shape sounded, so he decided to remake it at the last minute during December. The 1st version's arrangement is very vague, and we hear Brian trying a lot of different styles for it; he obviously hadn't figured out the perfect arrangement for it yet. Now it's December '66, and he knows where it belongs, he has a better idea of how it sounds. It's really just a transition piece, a very tiny section of music. Amazing what a big deal we made out of it once it was unearthed, but that's how desperate we are.
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Post by Micha on Dec 10, 2019 1:13:02 GMT -5
Was the final version of the I'm in Great Shape title section recorded before or after I Wanna Be Around? And when was the H&V Chimes Part 3 recorded relative to these sections? I'm trying to figure out what was the H&V part 2 when the Chimes section was recorded. Are you talking about the Durrie Parks version? That one was most likely recorded on December 19th. I Wanna Be Around was recorded on November 29th.
Is the Durrie Parks version available or do we only have descriptions from people who got to hear it?
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Post by Micha on Dec 12, 2019 0:20:20 GMT -5
Ah, thanks! Completely missed that. Both tracks have more of a Friends vibe than a Pet Sounds vibe, don't they? But why were they released on the Friends set? The CIFOTM track would have been ready at the time TSS was released and has nothing to do with Friends, or has it?
Was there anything more on that Durrie Parks acetate than a long loop of the IIGS chords? There's a sound on it that sound like the extension of the workshop sounds. Real or unintentional sound artifacts?
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Post by zebulan on Dec 12, 2019 10:54:32 GMT -5
Ah, thanks! Completely missed that. Both tracks have more of a Friends vibe than a Pet Sounds vibe, don't they? But why were they released on the Friends set? The CIFOTM track would have been ready at the time TSS was released and has nothing to do with Friends, or has it?
Was there anything more on that Durrie Parks acetate than a long loop of the IIGS chords? There's a sound on it that sound like the extension of the workshop sounds. Real or unintentional sound artifacts? Here's the full story: endlessharmony.boards.net/post/4472/thread
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