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Post by catbirdman on Apr 2, 2019 13:14:11 GMT -5
I also recall (but am too lazy to look up) another quote from Brian in early '67 where he explains how he has been frustrated with his recent efforts, saying he has been working harder than ever but not getting the satisfaction/results he wants. Perhaps someone with a copy of LLVS to hand (mine's in a box somewhere) can look it up.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 2, 2019 16:34:06 GMT -5
is the Papa Doo Run Run Bruce-produced B-side of Disney Girls the same as the Going Public version? Yes!
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 3, 2019 6:56:08 GMT -5
I also recall (but am too lazy to look up) another quote from Brian in early '67 where he explains how he has been frustrated with his recent efforts, saying he has been working harder than ever but not getting the satisfaction/results he wants. Perhaps someone with a copy of LLVS to hand (mine's in a box somewhere) can look it up. Too bad there were no laptops in 1966-67. I think Brian was more finished (if we can ever finish anything after being self-critical - for either writing or other work - even a term paper - we could have polished up better than when it was turned in) than he thought and he didn't realize it. The pieces were all there. It seems that it only needed to be assembled. Or re-assembled. Funny, 20/20 (as a literal and metaphor) was so close in time and the rear view mirror was closer than he thought. If he had a "Darian" who could assemble it on a screen - the visual might have been helpful. Or, make some kind of visual, such as a small poster, indicating certain tracks and sections, and spread it out on a floor (or football field for that matter) so Brian could have seen the parts to blend the sections into a coherent running order. Brian had said many times that he was "too close to it." Hearing the whole narrative about the tapes being burned is still so offensive, to me, when the band is announcing to audiences, that "Smile will be released soon." It put the band, and Brian, in an impossible position.
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Post by AGD on Apr 3, 2019 7:51:53 GMT -5
All the pieces were there ? Don't think so - only a quarter of "The Elements" had been recorded and other tracks were far from complete.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 3, 2019 8:08:17 GMT -5
All the pieces were there ? Don't think so - only a quarter of "The Elements" had been recorded and other tracks were far from complete. Andrew - you know more about that (actual tracks, finished or not) than I, but it seemed that there was a lot there. What I do know, is that some people need a "visual" to get a handle on where they are in terms of their progress in a project. That applies to any project. An abstract project that others don't understand, may need that a visual even more, whether it is a pie chart or sections of a term paper spread out on the floor to assemble and turn in if you are not a "linear" worker. It reinforces them to stay on task when they can see progress. You are sometimes closer to the light-in-the-tunnel than you think. Small concrete visuals can serve to keep one encouraged and less overwhelmed. Having that feeling of being overwhelmed by the enormity of any project, albeit in the midst of plenty of pretty completed work, is not helpful to complete it. Even knowing that you are at least half-way there, can spur you to completion. When you paint a room you can see your work in a concrete manner. You know when you finished 3 out of 4 walls and can get that positive reinforcement of task completion. It can make finishing the 4th wall less overwhelming. You are nearer to the finish line of the marathon.
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Post by g00dvibrations on Apr 7, 2019 15:48:35 GMT -5
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Post by AGD on Apr 7, 2019 16:27:55 GMT -5
Not exactly. Charlotte is the daughter of Phil Cooper, a conman who makes Brad Elliott look like a paragon of virtue. He had the notion his daughter could be a pop star and to that end set about trying to make it happen, enlisting Billy and Jeff along the way. Hasten to add none of this was in any way dodgy (unlike a lot of his other business ventures) but it hints at the mindset of the man. Some background
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Post by AGD on Apr 8, 2019 3:18:31 GMT -5
Am I completely misremembering, or was the "reconstruction" of Smile on disc 1 of the big box released as a stand-alone single CD ?
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Apr 8, 2019 4:41:44 GMT -5
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Post by John Manning on Apr 8, 2019 4:54:36 GMT -5
Am I completely misremembering, or was the "reconstruction" of Smile on disc 1 of the big box released as a stand-alone single CD ? It was in the UK but I don’t think it was in the US. The Smile Sessions www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005KGNM90
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Post by AGD on Apr 8, 2019 5:02:49 GMT -5
Thanks - so it's just the first disc of the 2CD version, then.
Since you asked, am updating the Albums wing of 10452 and The Smile Sessions is proving to be a bit of a complete bastard to do properly.
I also had to listen to snatches of every track on the 2013 live album. Pity me...
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Post by E on Apr 8, 2019 12:53:06 GMT -5
I also had to listen to snatches of every track on the 2013 live album. Pity me... The one BB album I haven't bought (or rather don't have. I didn't buy SIP, but I do have a copy...) and am in no hurry to acquire.
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Post by Al S on Apr 9, 2019 2:38:54 GMT -5
Thanks - so it's just the first disc of the 2CD version, then. Since you asked, am updating the Albums wing of 10452 and The Smile Sessions is proving to be a bit of a complete bastard to do properly. I also had to listen to snatches of every track on the 2013 live album. Pity me... There’s a hidden track 28 (Smile million copies promo) on the single CD (Japan, Europe, Aus, Brazil) - don’t recall if on Disc 1 of 2 disc box.
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Post by jay on Apr 9, 2019 3:24:48 GMT -5
Thanks - so it's just the first disc of the 2CD version, then. Since you asked, am updating the Albums wing of 10452 and The Smile Sessions is proving to be a bit of a complete bastard to do properly. I also had to listen to snatches of every track on the 2013 live album. Pity me... There’s a hidden track 28 (Smile million copies promo) on the single CD (Japan, Europe, Aus, Brazil) - don’t recall if on Disc 1 of 2 disc box. It's also on the full box set.
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Post by AGD on Apr 9, 2019 3:58:38 GMT -5
Ah, yes... I fondly recall Phil Cohen pontificating that the set wouldn't have it and would thus be worthless. As I knew it was being included, much amusement was engendered.
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elora
Grommet
Posts: 19
Likes: 70
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Post by elora on Apr 9, 2019 15:05:31 GMT -5
Does anyone know who made/designed the busts used on the Spring album cover or where they are now?
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Post by AGD on Apr 9, 2019 17:13:24 GMT -5
Does anyone know who made/designed the busts used on the Spring album cover or where they are now? Those are actual casts of Marilyn & Diane - I asked them about it back in the 80s. As for who, I'm guessing the art direction team at UA.
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Post by craigslowinski on Apr 9, 2019 21:50:23 GMT -5
Does anyone know who made/designed the busts used on the Spring album cover or where they are now? Don't you mean the "Good Time"/"Tennessee Waltz" 45 picture sleeve?
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Post by Fall Breaks on Apr 10, 2019 4:22:06 GMT -5
"Hey-yon-du-coma-nauga-ton / means avoid the suffering before it comes"
Does it really? What language is it?
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Post by AGD on Apr 10, 2019 8:17:39 GMT -5
Sanskrit, I'm guessing.
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Post by Fall Breaks on Apr 10, 2019 9:12:00 GMT -5
Darn it. Then I can't Google translate it back to see if it resembles the lyric.
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Post by Autotune on Apr 12, 2019 5:44:20 GMT -5
Who is Bill DeSimone and how can you figure out his voice? Great post, by the way.
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Post by craigslowinski on Apr 13, 2019 11:43:07 GMT -5
Yes, excellent work Salty and sloopjohnb72! What about the "by-gone, by-gone" line - of the four times that line is sung, I mostly hear Marilyn, but the second time I mostly hear Bruce...is it the two of them together? And could Marilyn also be in on the "domino" line, with Bruce and Carl? Totally agree that Brian is part of the "are you sleeping" harmony line, and that the wordless bridge transition harmony includes Dennis and Mike. BTW, listening to the a cappella mix is mandatory to deciphering these harmonies! Cool to hear Al exclaim "Holy mackerel!" at the conclusion.
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Post by AGD on Apr 14, 2019 15:08:57 GMT -5
It's the instrumental version from side one of the "Fairytale" EP.
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Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 15:11:17 GMT -5
Far from being a Smile scholar, I don't get why there were still Smile sessions going well into the Spring of 1967. I don't have many of my resource materials near me, but I seem to remember that (I'm inferring this) that pulling the plug came as a shock to the band. Even if Brian (the band) over-promised but under-delivered Smile, don't the sessions that continued, indicate that Brian was doing more than going-through-the-motions? There weren't really any Smile sessions in the Spring of '67. I recently compiled all the known Sessionography from Andrew and Craig into an interactive Calendar, and after reading through it all, something struck me. If you focus on the only the Instrumental tracking sessions and ignore the vocal ones, then you see that the bulk of all the Smile songs were recorded in 1966. Come January of 1967, Brian was working on extra bits and pieces for the album. Tags for certain songs that hadn't been recorded yet, remakes of sections from previous songs, and transition tracks for songs. These are odds and ends. I agree with Andrew that something did happen to Brian near the end of '66 that did convince him Smile probably wasn't going to happen, but he didn't give up, even tho he was losing momentum. The deadlines probably didn't help really. This January period is the last Brian truly works on the album, and January is not the Spring, it's still the Winter. Near the end of January and starting in February, Brian is starts focusing solely on "Heroes and Villains". Literally everything he is recording during this period is for the Single version of that song. By the beginning of March, he stops working on it, so we can assume he finished the Single version and held onto it for a long time. Now March is interesting because Brian basically does absolutely nothing in March. This really is proof that Smile isn't going to happen. Derek Taylor's announcement of Smile's cancellation in early May could be seen as a shock to some, but honestly, Smile was left behind around mid-February. In April Brian announces the new single is "Vega-Tables", so he works on that song. This is not for the Smile album (a version of "Vega-Tables" had already been completed for the album). He is remaking this song because the original version's production isn't strong enough for a Single. He also remakes "Wonderful" as Side B for the "Vega-Tables" single. These have nothing to do with the album Smile, they're only singles. Eventually however, Brian decides not to release either singles of "Vega-Tables" and "Heroes and Villains". By May, Smile is announced scrapped, and Brian returns to one Smile song to produce a more fuller arrangement of it: "Love to Say Dada". Was this for the album? Possibly, but if so, it was probably Brian's last attempt to keep Smile alive. He gave up however and cancelled the final session. That is truly the end of all things Smile. tl;drThe majority of all Smile songs were recorded in 1966. 1967 was spent recording odds and ends, then the "Heroes and Villains" single, then a "Vega-Tables" single, and then a final attempt to flesh out Smile with "Love to Say Dada". So Smile wasn't really worked on in the Spring of 1967. Brian had kind of abandoned it by then. Hearing the whole narrative about the tapes being burned is still so offensive, to me, when the band is announcing to audiences, that "Smile will be released soon." It put the band, and Brian, in an impossible position. I hear ya man, but the tapes were definitely destroyed. Certainly not burned, but the tapes that actually mattered were destroyed at some point. I remember seeing an interview with Marilyn talking about how Brian once told her to destroy them for him because it reminded him of a part of his life he wanted to forget, and I completely understand that. There is no better way to explain why we're missing the kind of tapes we're missing. We're left with only session tapes, scrap vocals and some safety copies. That's it. The real finished songs are long gone. Probably destroyed by Brian himself. All the pieces were there ? Don't think so - only a quarter of "The Elements" had been recorded and other tracks were far from complete. All the pieces were pretty much there. It depends on which order to want to go by. Brian seemed to have been coming up with an order as he was creating the album, so there are transition pieces for songs like "Heroes and Villains", "Do You Like Worms?", "Cabin Essence" and "The Elements". We're missing some KEY sessions in early January that probably contained more transitions. If we had those sessions, I'd bet we'd be able to piece an outline of the album together. Regarding "The Elements", I think it wasn't really a suite of music like we would've thought. Earth, Water and Air's sections of the suite probably weren't going to be expressed musically like Fire's was. I think if you look at the logic behind Fire's remake, "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter", you can get an idea of what Brian was going for. According to him, "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter" was supposed to represent ALL FOUR seasons. I certainly do not hear all 4 seasons in that song. But going off of that description, you could give "Fall Breaks and Back to Winter" a simpler title like "The Seasons". There may not be a definite 4-part suite, but Brian did have a sense of direction to take the music. "Friday Night" was to come after "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", so there was some kind of flow he was developing, whether it was a suite or not.
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