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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 26, 2019 1:10:09 GMT -5
So here we are, 2019. My first thought is, how did I get here? 20freaking19? I thought we were all supposed to be in flying cars by now, living on the moon...or dead. But what really puzzles me is: no one else has started a thread about Carl? I read all the time now about Brian and the Endless Pet Sounds tour, about his back troubles and his talk/singing. I read about Mike (and by association, Bruce) and his new music and his tours. I read what a great voice Al still has, and how audiences love Blondie. I read about how talented Dennis was, what a masterpiece POB was. So where is Carl? Did he become the invisible Beach Boy? Or was he just so dependable, reliable, rock solid all those years (well, except for Australia 1978) that we just took him for granted? Well, maybe i'm the only one who didn't. I miss the guy everyday, his voice, his guitar playing, his songwriting, his temperament, and now it's going on 21 years that he's been gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 2:15:41 GMT -5
So here we are, 2019. My first thought is, how did I get here? 20freaking19? I thought we were all supposed to be in flying cars by now, living on the moon...or dead. But what really puzzles me is: no one else has started a thread about Carl? I read all the time now about Brian and the Endless Pet Sounds tour, about his back troubles and his talk/singing. I read about Mike (and by association, Bruce) and his new music and his tours. I read what a great voice Al still has, and how audiences love Blondie. I read about how talented Dennis was, what a masterpiece POB was. So where is Carl? Did he become the invisible Beach Boy? Or was he just so dependable, reliable, rock solid all those years (well, except for Australia 1978) that we just took him for granted? Well, maybe i'm the only one who didn't. I miss the guy everyday, his voice, his guitar playing, his songwriting, his temperament, and now it's going on 21 years that he's been gone. The thing is, Carl never really did a great album, and he's not here anymore to tour so he's not actively in the public consciousness. I think that's really what it boils down to. Pet Sounds/SMiLE and a lot of other material are Brian's brainchildren so everytime someone listens to or analyzes them they're honoring Brian. Same with POB for Dennis. Carl's two solo projects just aren't that good, so no one really listens to them anymore and they're not actively discussed. But I dont think Carl's forgotten. He was arguably the best singer of the band in their prime years, and a big role in their early 70s success. So, when people are talking about those aspects of the group's history, they're honoring Carl. It's just they're honoring him as part of the group, since his best work was always in service to the band. If he had made a great solo album, or lead the way creatively in an acclaimed Beach Boys album, then we'd talk more about him individually.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 4:44:25 GMT -5
I think to the average Beach Boys' fan, Carl's contributions, especially his recorded vocal work, is under-appreciated because Carl was featured AFTER the hit-making years, and his best albums (arguably L.A. (Light Album), Keepin' The Summer Alive, The Beach Boys 1985, and Summer in Paradise) went largely unheard. And, only the more serious fans venture(d) into Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Carl & The Passions to appreciate Carl's other strong works. So I think it might be a numbers' thing.
The same thing applied to live performances. Carl was easily the strongest singer in concert, but for many years, especially post-1980, he was limited to a handful of lead vocals including "Darlin'", "God Only Knows", "Good Vibrations", maybe "Wouldn't It Be Nice", a part of "Sloop John B", and songs that came and went like "I Can Hear Music" and the occasional "Don't Worry Baby". That's not really a lot! And, again, because many of Carl's leads were on albums that didn't feature hits, we didn't get them in concert consistently.
I know this is supposed to be a thread to celebrate Carl - and I do - but recently I've been thinking about Carl and I felt kinda sad. He died so young...It's sad that Carl didn't get the chance to enjoy the years AFTER he contributed so much to keep the group going in the studio in the early 1970's with his production work, and after all the great vocal work he did to literally "save" those later albums. I think had Carl lived, he would be receiving a significant amount of praise and recognition, maybe not approaching Brian, but certainly as much or more than any other group member. And he deserves it.
In the end though, my feelings on Carl are overwhelming positive. Vocally, he was always excellent. He was so dependable; you never had to worry how Carl was going to sound. I felt that post-1968, Carl was the "go to" guy. If you had a song and wanted to make sure it reached it's full potential, give it to Carl to sing. And Brian and Dennis did just that. In the later years (if you consider 1979 and the 1980's/1990's the later years), the group was smart enough to realize that Carl was their ace vocalist, and featured him prominently. I miss Carl Wilson but I still celebrate him...and I thank him.
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Post by g00dvibrations on Jan 26, 2019 4:56:16 GMT -5
I mean, most of your comparisions aren't entirely fair. We discuss Brian's tour and Mike's albums and whatnot because its happening now. If Carl was still around and touring we'd be talking about him all the time I'm sure. Otherwise like iluvleni says, his best achievements were all group ones. (And unlike Dennis, he doesn't have a "classic" solo album or enough material for a few lost ones)
But yeah, all I need to do is watch Live At Knebworth or the like to see how important and amazing Carl was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 5:38:14 GMT -5
Never forgotten--I think about Carl all the time. Most beautiful voice in history. He died far too young. Most of my favourite songs have a prominent Carl presence.
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Post by kds on Jan 26, 2019 7:23:47 GMT -5
Brian, Al, and Mike almost always memntion Carl at their respective shows.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 26, 2019 8:52:32 GMT -5
Never forgotten--I think about Carl all the time. Most beautiful voice in history. He died far too young. Most of my favourite songs have a prominent Carl presence. Looking for video in color of Carl under the blue lights from the 60's...
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 26, 2019 9:03:46 GMT -5
As close as I could find...can't get the visual effects as well...from 1966...
Forgotten?
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 26, 2019 9:06:57 GMT -5
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 26, 2019 9:08:32 GMT -5
And even in a diner - it is all about Carl...(and Dennis) who are both "constructively present" whenever and wherever the music is performed.
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Post by Emdeeh on Jan 26, 2019 10:18:40 GMT -5
Carl is always remembered, with deep fondness, in this household.
To me, he was hugely important to the BB's success -- with that incredible voice, his musical leadership in performance, his producing for the BBs, his stage presence, and the gratitude he showed to the fans. Even with all that talent, his humility was one of his strongest traits. A generous guy, too. When he died, he left a huge unfillable hole in the BBs -- not just vocally and instrumentally, but personality-wise.
One of the things that has bugged me tremendously for the past 20 years is how press stories about the BBs (collectively and in their separate tours) relegate both Carl and Dennis to a sentence or two as the "dead guys." They were both so very important to the BBs and deserve more than a passing mention.
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Post by The Cap'n on Jan 27, 2019 15:31:01 GMT -5
If Carl is forgotten to some extent, I do think it's because he was such a stable staple and hardcore fans are more or less unanimous in their praise of him. There was less drama surrounding him than anyone else in the group--hell, even Al had the lawsuits surrounding his Family & Friends band and some occasional barbs in the press about Mike and Bruce.
Carl had some problems in the mid-to-late '70s, including the embarrassing performance down under. Then he had a couple of mediocre solo albums. These are the man's biggest sins? Almost everything I've read on this sort of board over the past two decades amounts to "Carl Wilson was an angel, a saint of a man, and his voice is unmatched."
If that's the narrative, suddenly there isn't a lot left to discuss apart from maybe little nitpicks around the fringes.
A really detailed documentary about him would be fascinating, compiling his interviews over the years with other musicians who worked with him or were inspired by him. I'd love to see and hear more about how he went about his work as a bandleader, as a meat-and-potatoes musician in good times and bad, as the younger brother of a widely praised genius and of a womanizing bad boy, as an aging participant in a used-to-be-huge nostalgia band. It's really an untold story, if told as neither fawning nor dirt-digging.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 28, 2019 16:11:03 GMT -5
I had just become serious BB's fan around the time that Carl went solo, so I was very intrigued with his attempts at working outside the group. Bought the first album shortly after Carl on the Robert Klein radio show. One of the local FM stations was playing "What You Gonna Do About Me" and "Heaven" repeatedly. I was okay with the idea that he wanted to do different music than the Beach Boys did. I wasn't expecting "Pet Sounds Volume 2" or even "Summer Days". I hadn't heard much of the 70's work yet, so I wasn't comparing "Hold Me" or "Seems So Long Ago" to "Long Promised Road" or "The Trader". Later that year, I bought the "Ten Years of Harmony" double album, and I was really impressed with the songs on there from "Sunflower", "Surf's Up" and "Holland". Even then, I would have said -based on that comp - that the guys were doing great stuff in the early 70's, then took a serious nosedive.
I bought "Youngblood" the day I first saw it in the local Budget Tapes and Records, loved it, saw the BB's in concert a few weeks later, and Carl solo a month after that. I loved all the music he was doing on his own, played those 2 albums all the time. I still do. They're among my favorite BB-related discs ever. Yes, I've heard POB, but I don't connect with that music as much as I do Carl's.
I waited what felt like an eternity for the Beckley Lamm Wilson album to come out, but when it finally did, I fell in love with that music. So my experiences with Carl as a solo artist are a bit different than the majority here.
For years, I refused to see Mike's touring Beach Boys, simply because, to me, the Beach Boys ended when Carl died. In the last couple years, my feelings about that have softened. Hoping I get a chance to see Mike one of these days, because I can't imagine he's gonna be out there much longer, we're all getting older.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 3, 2019 20:40:32 GMT -5
Yes, would rather play Carl's albums than Pacific Ocean Blue/ Bambu.
Agree with everybody's positive summation/ points about Carl. But genuine question - who began labelling him as "voice of an angel"? Is it description in press review? Which? Bandmates & fellow musicians' dubbing?
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 4, 2019 9:03:14 GMT -5
Yes, would rather play Carl's albums than Pacific Ocean Blue/ Bambu. Agree with everybody's positive summation/ points about Carl. But genuine question - who began labelling him as "voice of an angel"? Is it description in press review? Which? Bandmates & fellow musicians' dubbing? Maybe around Pet Sounds when Carl's voice was more prominently featured, and was on God Only Knows which was a top 10 hit, on the flip side (B side) of Wouldn't It Be Nice - that his amazing voice got everyone's attention. It did not take long - seeing him live, performing it under his signature blue lights for that song, that he came out of the shadow of his brothers, and came into his own with more leads, and tremendous stage presence, for both the ballads and edgier stuff.
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Post by Vale on Feb 5, 2019 10:05:10 GMT -5
Yes, would rather play Carl's albums than Pacific Ocean Blue/ Bambu. Agree with everybody's positive summation/ points about Carl. But genuine question - who began labelling him as "voice of an angel"? Is it description in press review? Which? Bandmates & fellow musicians' dubbing? Maybe around Pet Sounds when Carl's voice was more prominently featured, and was on God Only Knows which was a top 10 hit, on the flip side (B side) of Wouldn't It Be Nice - that his amazing voice got everyone's attention. It did not take long - seeing him live, performing it under his signature blue lights for that song, that he came out of the shadow of his brothers, and came into his own with more leads, and tremendous stage presence, for both the ballads and edgier stuff. I always thought that if Carl were here today, The Beach Boys would be touring together... and I continue to be of this opinion. I know he wanted to leave at some point, but I saw him as the link between Mike and Brian. He was such a great performer.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 5, 2019 11:25:35 GMT -5
Maybe around Pet Sounds when Carl's voice was more prominently featured, and was on God Only Knows which was a top 10 hit, on the flip side (B side) of Wouldn't It Be Nice - that his amazing voice got everyone's attention. It did not take long - seeing him live, performing it under his signature blue lights for that song, that he came out of the shadow of his brothers, and came into his own with more leads, and tremendous stage presence, for both the ballads and edgier stuff. I always thought that if Carl were here today, The Beach Boys would be touring together... and I continue to be of this opinion. I know he wanted to leave at some point, but I saw him as the link between Mike and Brian. He was such a great performer. He was an awesome performer. It is probably pretty normal for artists to try something solo that does not have to conform to a group style and exercise some artistic independence over their material.
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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 7, 2019 2:13:12 GMT -5
I always thought that if Carl were here today, The Beach Boys would be touring together... and I continue to be of this opinion. I know he wanted to leave at some point, but I saw him as the link between Mike and Brian. He was such a great performer. He was an awesome performer. It is probably pretty normal for artists to try something solo that does not have to conform to a group style and exercise some artistic independence over their material. And i'm glad he did. I think he enjoyed doing some music that was a bit simpler, a bit rockier. Really stretched himself as a singer on those solo albums. I played them many times for friends, especially Youngblood. Everybody was surprised that a Beach Boy could rock that hard! I wish everyone could have seen him on his solo tours. You kind of get a taste of what that was like on the live cd's that came out a couple years ago, but nothing is better than actually being there.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 7, 2019 21:10:15 GMT -5
Maybe around Pet Sounds when Carl's voice was more prominently featured, and was on God Only Knows which was a top 10 hit, on the flip side (B side) of Wouldn't It Be Nice - that his amazing voice got everyone's attention. It did not take long - seeing him live, performing it under his signature blue lights for that song, that he came out of the shadow of his brothers, and came into his own with more leads, and tremendous stage presence, for both the ballads and edgier stuff. What's puzzling is Paul cites GOK his favorite song of all time, praises the singer, yet didn't name Carl "Great singing by Carl Wilson". Or did he? Frankly, to my ears, Carl doesn't seem to've changed his voice since his leads/ lines in "Pom Pom Play Girl"/ "Summertime Blues" et al. It's still the same voice as in GOK, difference being GOK is ballad & he sings it as such, that's it. It's funny that people despite praising Carl plenty, still went with WIBN to win the PS survivor. Doesn't make sense. ^Few random points regarding Carl/ GOK.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 7, 2019 21:40:34 GMT -5
Maybe around Pet Sounds when Carl's voice was more prominently featured, and was on God Only Knows which was a top 10 hit, on the flip side (B side) of Wouldn't It Be Nice - that his amazing voice got everyone's attention. It did not take long - seeing him live, performing it under his signature blue lights for that song, that he came out of the shadow of his brothers, and came into his own with more leads, and tremendous stage presence, for both the ballads and edgier stuff. What's puzzling is Paul cites GOK his favorite song of all time, praises the singer, yet didn't name Carl "Great singing by Carl Wilson". Or did he? Frankly, to my ears, Carl doesn't seem to've changed his voice since his leads/ lines in "Pom Pom Play Girl"/ "Summertime Blues" et al. It's still the same voice as in GOK, difference being GOK is ballad & he sings it as such, that's it. It's funny that people despite praising Carl plenty, still went with WIBN to win the PS survivor. Doesn't make sense. ^Few random points regarding Carl/ GOK. Carl had a commanding presence on stage and his range was amazing from a tender GOK to edgy and soulful for Sail On Sailor, or Wild Honey.
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Post by bonniebella on Feb 8, 2019 6:16:24 GMT -5
And he did this
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 8:41:09 GMT -5
What's puzzling is Paul cites GOK his favorite song of all time, praises the singer, yet didn't name Carl "Great singing by Carl Wilson". Or did he? Good point, BBF.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 8, 2019 9:40:43 GMT -5
What's puzzling is Paul cites GOK his favorite song of all time, praises the singer, yet didn't name Carl "Great singing by Carl Wilson". Or did he? Good point, BBF. Perhaps it is inferred by implication.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 8, 2019 12:11:23 GMT -5
Carl had a commanding presence on stage and his range was amazing from a tender GOK to edgy and soulful for Sail On Sailor, or Wild Honey. Is it just me or sometimes it really looks like people over-praise Carl (same thing I see with Dennis)? Anyhoo, I didn't deny Carl's range (& am not sure what his stage presence got to do with my previous reply), I read a lot, I know what I read, people did say many times that Carl grew singing ability-wise since his 1st leads to GOK. But it didn't, really. It's just the songs he sang back then weren't serious material as GOK. If you listen to "Darlin'" which is later than GOK, it isn't dissimilar vocally to "Pom Pom Play Girl", I don't really hear any growth/ change in the way Carl sings. It's good vocal back then & good vocal in "Darlin'" etc. The other people didn't acknowledge him being that good singer since beginning. That's what I mean. Carl's role became enlarged when Brian left the road. Of course he grew in the job - becoming Musical Director. Watch any YouTube. Who would be acknowledging this? Critics from newspapers? Listen to Carl on Trader, Sail on Sailor, which he did after Blondie left, I Can Hear Music, Where I Belong, Don't Worry Baby on In Concert, really anything. If you don't like his voice, that it fine, and your preference, but generally his is accepted as one of the greats in rock history. I'm sort of baffled that it is even an issue.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 8, 2019 12:16:02 GMT -5
Perhaps it is inferred by implication. Please, it's serious question. No winks, no jokes. Doesn't anybody wanna know why Paul never says the name? I mean what's so difficult to do it? What, Carl is less popular Beach Boy, thus can't mention him when praising his absolute favorite song's lead vocal (which he did note about)? Doesn't it strike as weeeeird? Why would Paul bring up Brian's late beloved brother to him? To make him sad? No one sang like Carl. You can ask one of the experts on this board. And you should. He was no "less popular Beach Boy." That is just not true in my opinion. Many of the concerts I saw - he got standing ovations after he sang. What does a standing ovation mean? Or, extended applause?
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